UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items

Notices

Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 1st May 2019, 9:42 pm   #1
Bazz4CQJ
Nonode
 
Bazz4CQJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 2,478
Default Vintage SWAN brand percolator

A friend has asked me to take a look at this vintage SWAN brand percolator, which is marked CAT. No.580 (see attached). He tells me this is treasured family heirloom, but it has not been used for sometime, and when he attempted to use it, it tripped the RCD.

Using a DMM, I measured the resistance between the N and L connections at 140R (it's rated at 400W), and from either of those across to E about 40k. I’ve not yet tried to get inside the lower half of the vessel where the element is.

There is some kind of a push button switch in the base (second picture) but it does not latch - not sure if it's supposed to.

I wonder if anyone knows much about SWAN appliances for this era and whether or not it is still possible to find spares for them?

Any help appreciated.

B
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1020419.jpg
Views:	115
Size:	57.3 KB
ID:	182244   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1020420.jpg
Views:	105
Size:	87.8 KB
ID:	182245  
__________________
We know there are known unknowns. But there are unknown unknowns – ones we don't know we don't know.
Bazz4CQJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2019, 9:55 pm   #2
G8UWM-MildMartin
Heptode
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stockport, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 697
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

The push button pops out more than that when the overheat protection mechanism operates. I haven't seen any spares on eBay over the last couple of years. Virtually unused complete percolators often show up, though. The leakage may well improve if it is warmed. Could try filling with boiling water a couple of times.
G8UWM-MildMartin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2019, 10:04 pm   #3
Bazz4CQJ
Nonode
 
Bazz4CQJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 2,478
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

Thanks for that info Martin. It seems like the bottom section is removable, but not sure whether there's a thread or it's just a push fit? It's presently quite tight.

B
__________________
We know there are known unknowns. But there are unknown unknowns – ones we don't know we don't know.
Bazz4CQJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2019, 10:20 pm   #4
G8UWM-MildMartin
Heptode
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stockport, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 697
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

Underneath, there's a central tiny nut that has to be removed, then the rubber footring, then the bottom plate jiggles free (may be a bit stuck with corrosion.)

The two parts of the body are held together by the element, which has a threaded body.

Last edited by G8UWM-MildMartin; 1st May 2019 at 10:33 pm. Reason: Addition of element
G8UWM-MildMartin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2019, 10:35 pm   #5
Bazz4CQJ
Nonode
 
Bazz4CQJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 2,478
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

Ah, I removed that nut and the plate was free, but it seemed bigger than the hole. From what you say, it just needs a little encouragement?

B
__________________
We know there are known unknowns. But there are unknown unknowns – ones we don't know we don't know.
Bazz4CQJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2019, 10:48 pm   #6
G8UWM-MildMartin
Heptode
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stockport, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 697
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

Yes, try to "unwind" it through the hole, starting at the slightly flattened edge of the plate.
G8UWM-MildMartin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2019, 10:50 pm   #7
Refugee
Dekatron
 
Refugee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 4,180
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

I would apply 24 volts to the element for a few hours and check the leakage again.
It should be all right if it is used about once a week to keep the moisture out of the element.
Refugee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2019, 12:13 am   #8
McMurdo
Dekatron
 
McMurdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK.
Posts: 3,564
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

40K on a multimeter is way too low, probably much lower at mains voltages. Insulation should be ideally in the meg range.
__________________
Kevin
McMurdo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2019, 1:05 am   #9
Bazz4CQJ
Nonode
 
Bazz4CQJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 2,478
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

I have it open and running 24V overnight. Yes, 40k is pretty low, but I'll see how it does after it's had some volts on it. While connected to the DMM, R slowly increases as time passes, so it is polarising as you might expect with damp.

It belonged to a parent who recently passed away, hence the interest in saving it. The heater is unlike anything I've seen before, as is the over-temp trip!

Thanks guys.

B
__________________
We know there are known unknowns. But there are unknown unknowns – ones we don't know we don't know.
Bazz4CQJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2019, 5:36 pm   #10
Bazz4CQJ
Nonode
 
Bazz4CQJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 2,478
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

The 40k leakage has improved to 110k (DMM) overnight. I've now pushed the volts up to ~32, and it's now running quite warm to the touch. Time to dig out my PAT tester?

B
__________________
We know there are known unknowns. But there are unknown unknowns – ones we don't know we don't know.
Bazz4CQJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2019, 7:16 pm   #11
ColinB
Heptode
 
ColinB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Chineham, Basingstoke, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 548
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

I wouldn't be giving this back to a non-technical person for everyday use; it's an electrocution waiting to happen.

Strongly suggest they use it for display purposes only.
ColinB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2019, 8:00 pm   #12
Heatercathodeshort
Dekatron
 
Heatercathodeshort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING.
Posts: 6,771
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

A very high quality well built product. This one is dated May 1958 [stamped on bottom 5-58] It gets semi regular use.

Kitchen appliances can be death traps if certain faults develop. Take great care with this and don't take any chances with elements that are breaking down and leaking to earth. John.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Swan Brand Coffee perculator..jpg
Views:	78
Size:	37.0 KB
ID:	182303  
Heatercathodeshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2019, 8:14 pm   #13
Bazz4CQJ
Nonode
 
Bazz4CQJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 2,478
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColinB View Post
I wouldn't be giving this back to a non-technical person for everyday use; it's an electrocution waiting to happen.

For sure, I'm not inclined to hand it back as "OK to use" at this stage, even if I get it past the PAT tester. When they tried it, it immediately tripped their RCD.

But, is it really "an electrocution waiting to happen"?

B
__________________
We know there are known unknowns. But there are unknown unknowns – ones we don't know we don't know.
Bazz4CQJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2019, 9:00 pm   #14
Herald1360
Dekatron
 
Herald1360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 13,434
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

Probably not. Even without an RCD, there would need to be an earthing fault as well before it would actually be hazardous.
__________________
....__________
....|____||__|__\_____
.=.| _---\__|__|_---_|.
.........O..Chris....O
Herald1360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2019, 9:21 pm   #15
McMurdo
Dekatron
 
McMurdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK.
Posts: 3,564
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

What sort of element is it? Can we have a shufty?
__________________
Kevin
McMurdo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2019, 10:43 pm   #16
Bazz4CQJ
Nonode
 
Bazz4CQJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 2,478
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

It's like nothing I ever seen before and a photograph wouldn't be clear, as it's inside the body of the percolator; I'll try do you a drawing!

So, now running at 37V and ..... we're at 1.7MOhm. Interesting little 'experiment', even if it does eventually lead nowhere.

B
__________________
We know there are known unknowns. But there are unknown unknowns – ones we don't know we don't know.
Bazz4CQJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2019, 11:02 pm   #17
Bazz4CQJ
Nonode
 
Bazz4CQJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 2,478
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

One drawing; not quite up to G4EBT standards, but adequate for purpose

B
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Swan Perc.pdf (11.7 KB, 66 views)
__________________
We know there are known unknowns. But there are unknown unknowns – ones we don't know we don't know.
Bazz4CQJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2019, 9:02 am   #18
McMurdo
Dekatron
 
McMurdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK.
Posts: 3,564
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

Sounds like it's improving anyway, could just be lack of use, my parents' hostess trolley (tubular heater) was brought out of retirement after years of idleness only to trip the RCD, I suspect a similar problem, it happens.

Fingers crossed no pinhole or water leakage causing moisture ingress.

Personally in my workshop I would run it up on a variac with no earth connected to 'bake it' but this method requires careful supervision as the casing will be live for the procedure and we don't want it overheating either.
__________________
Kevin
McMurdo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2019, 9:20 am   #19
Station X
Moderator
 
Station X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
Posts: 15,001
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herald1360 View Post
Probably not. Even without an RCD, there would need to be an earthing fault as well before it would actually be hazardous.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-48112342
__________________
Graham. Forum Moderator

Keep the soldering iron hot.
Station X is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2019, 9:43 am   #20
Herald1360
Dekatron
 
Herald1360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 13,434
Default Re: Vintage SWAN brand percolator

That unfortunate event sounds very much like the result both no RCD and an earthing fault. Clearly not impossible, but still unlikely. I wonder if the death rate from this type of scenario is high enough to be statistically significant?

Back with the percolator, if the element bakes out OK, a dollop of silicon grease on the connection exit points followed by a bit of regular use under controlled conditions to see whether it deteriorates again would establish whether it might be statistically OK to use in an RCD and earth protected environment. A dedicated RCD type plug on its mains lead would add yet another level of protection.

Ultimately, though, it's a matter of risk assessment- what may be legally acceptable might fall short of one's personal assessment of the morally acceptable!

FWIW I scrapped a rather nice Dualit coffee maker that came through a local repair cafe suffering from a similar fault in its boiler rather than accept the risk........ replacement elements were unavailable.
__________________
....__________
....|____||__|__\_____
.=.| _---\__|__|_---_|.
.........O..Chris....O

Last edited by Herald1360; 3rd May 2019 at 9:54 am.
Herald1360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 8:23 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2019, Paul Stenning.