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Old 10th Jun 2019, 11:30 am   #1
PsychMan
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Default HMV 582 Options

Hi All,

I've just acquired a lovely HMV 582, the bureau style 30s radiogram. I'm mulling over what to do with the cabinet and wondered what everyone's views were and what might be possible. I will post some pictures in due to course.

The cabinet is a bit tatty, though thankfully seems structurally sound and survived the trip home and getting it into the house (god its heavy!).

Some small pieces of veneer missing, some badly repaired (grain in wrong direction ). Small bits near the base will definitely need replacing, which I'm happy to do.

The finish shows lots of checking, and in patches the protective varnish has chipped away completely, plenty of dents and scratches etc visible up close. Some sections are pretty good, others like the top pretty rough. I guess its not too bad for an 82 year old machine that's probably been in many garages or less than perfect storage conditions in its life.

I'm leaning more towards cleaning up and improving what's there, and fixing the missing veneer pieces. I have some furniture restore solution that's worked well for me on other pieces, but of course wont do much where the lacquer has gone from the top. Im sure it will do wonders for the better panels.

I suppose what Im asking is, what other options there might be, short of refinishing that aren't furniture restorer, wax pens and polish?

Can anything be applied over the top in some places to blend in with the top lacquer coat?

It doesn't have to be perfect and is quite charming as it is, I just think it deserves to look smarter

Best Regards
Adam
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 2:16 pm   #2
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychMan View Post
Hi All,

I suppose what Im asking is, what other options there might be, short of refinishing that aren't furniture restorer, wax pens and polish?

Can anything be applied over the top in some places to blend in with the top lacquer coat?
There are some "tricks" that can be used. Often scratches and marks in old varnished, lacquered or French polished surfaces can be rendered nearly invisible with a little help from nature. It depends on how severe they are.

If you crack an Almond nut in half (other nuts can work too, even peanuts) you have an object which is soft , yet microscopically abrasive and containing nut oils.

It can be used as a polishing stick or tool, to totally obscure scratches by rubbing it along the defect.

You will be quite surprised how well this works. The abrasive component smooths the edges of the scratch and the oil obscures the remainder.

Mind you, while I know this works & have used it on occasions, my M/O is normally a complete restoration, which means removing all the old lacquer, finishing the timber to an ultra-smooth surface and then applying multiple coats, because if you really want it to look wonderful, there are no shortcuts.
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 3:37 pm   #3
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

Thanks Hugo. The nut trick sounds interesting, I have plenty of cabinets to experiment with

Im inclined to agree about the refinish, though it would lose a little originality and "character" i guess, but without doubt achieve best results.

My concerns about a refinish would be the veneer looking very thin, id worry about sanding, can chemical stripping be used? I assume you would need to get back to bare wood?

Ive never done any refinishing and might not want to learn on such a nice and rare piece, so perhaps Ill work to improve this cabinet for now. Can I ask what kind of products do you use for refinishing such pieces and how theyre applied?
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 4:28 pm   #4
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

If you don't want to go down the strip and French polish route then linseed oil works wonders. You may think that it will leave a greesy surface but it doesn't and it hardens nicely.

Peter
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 5:51 pm   #5
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

Tastes vary I know but for me this is a stunning piece of period furniture and deserves to be fully restored. However, a professional would charge a small fortune for doing the job because of the number of hours involved and a diy attempt would be even more time consuming, although potentially very satisfying. Whatever you decide to do I think it's a real gem.

Alan
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 6:38 pm   #6
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychMan View Post
My concerns about a refinish would be the veneer looking very thin, id worry about sanding, can chemical stripping be used? I assume you would need to get back to bare wood?

Ive never done any refinishing and might not want to learn on such a nice and rare piece, so perhaps Ill work to improve this cabinet for now.
Yes, with very thin veneer you need the minimal possible sanding, and paper on a block probably no coarser than 600 grade. Mostly,never apply the paper/sanding with finger pressure, its too uneven, it needs to be wrapped on a block with a flat surface.

The existing lacquer/varnish, whatever it is can be removed first with paint stripper, but it needs to be a very benign form of it like citristrip:

Directions for use
First Use:
1. Shake well and pour into metal container.
2. Brush a thick coat onto the surface.
3. Allow to penetrate for 20-30 minutes or longer. Citristrip stays active up to 24 hours.
4. When coating has lifted remove with scraper.
5. Wipe surface clean with Citristrip Paint Remover Wash from the Flood Company.
6. TIP: A scrubing pad with Paint Remover Wash will remove paint residue from corners and hard to get places. Outdoors Citristrip treated areas can be cleaned with water.
7. Wipe with clean cloth and allow to dry completely before painting.
NOTE: On surfaces with many layers, a thicker coat or a second application may be required.

* Citristrip is distributed under license from WM Barr and Co Inc, U.S.A

A similar product should be in the UK.

For re-coating Satin polyurethane spray will give a tough chemical and water resistant coat that protects the wood well and is easy to apply, it may not be original but it looks good and is very long lasting, if you don't want to go down the french polish or linseed oil route.

This radio was stripped with citristrip and refinished with polyurethane:

http://worldphaco.com/uploads/THE_GREBE_MU-1.pdf

same with the faceplate of this Andrea TV, that is veneer coated plywood:

http://worldphaco.com/uploads/THE_ME...DREA_KTE-5.pdf


If you look at the end of this article, this cabinet was re-coated with multiple layers of gloss polyurethane, it requires sanding with very fine paper between coats:

http://worldphaco.com/uploads/621TSARTICLE.pdf

Last edited by Argus25; 10th Jun 2019 at 6:50 pm.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 8:06 pm   #7
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

Wow what a fantastic thing! Just looked at RMorg photos, it's lovely & does deserve to look it's best, but having said that I do think if it can be made presentable (to the owner's eye) without full restoration that would be more suitable.

All a matter of opinion really but unless something was really wrecked, or was the only example left, I think there's a lot to be said for leaving evidence of it's long life and the hardships it's survived visible & not refinishing. I understand it's a different finish & material, but the Bush radiogram I recently acquired has responded very well to a simple clean up & dose of teak oil, quite shockingly so in fact.

Will be following this thread with interest.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 8:32 pm   #8
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

I notice that the original price was 50 gns which was an awful lot in 1937 - about £3,500 in today's terms. Can't imagine that there are many still around.

Alan
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 5:27 am   #9
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

Below is the before and after effect of polishing with linseed oil on another HMV product.


Peter
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 9:25 am   #10
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

A very pleasing result Peter. It would be interesting to see some photos of the 582's cabinet in its current state.

Alan
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 10:35 am   #11
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

Thanks for all the comments folks, particularly Hugo with the details on various products. From a conservation point of view I like the idea of a poly finish for durability and I've heard its easier than other products to get good results. Photos will follow soon

The worst parts by far are the bureau lid and the top of the cabinet, the rest would tidy up quite nicely, but I expect selectively refinishing parts of it is never going to look right. My skills aren't good enough to refinish anyway at this stage, so will consider that when Ive practiced on some lesser pieces.

Peter did you do any prep to apply that oil? Could it make chipped lacquer less noticeable?

Anyway Ill add some photos (hopefully tonight), I'll be interested to hear more experienced views on how bad it is
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 1:35 pm   #12
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

No preparation, simply polish with the linseed oil. It conceals scratches, missing areas and where moisture has got under the polish. The transformation is quite amazing and requires no skill. I have also used it on old car French polished woodwork and the results have lasted well.

Peter
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 1:54 pm   #13
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

There was also an article in the BVWS not so many years ago which advocated the same thing using liquid paraffin.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 10:28 pm   #14
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

First batch, included one of the dial glass with the flash to show how the red has darkened
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 10:32 pm   #15
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

Second batch - wondering if the deck or at least the tone arm is original. I believe it’s period correct, but online pictures have shown a different tonearm. There’s a screw hole on the motor board that suggests something is missing, but I have a small bag of bits from the deck so maybe it’s something in there

Final picture is of the top, have tried to highlight the worst bits with the flash
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 10:35 pm   #16
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

All in all Iíve seen 30s stuff in a lot worse condition.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 10:50 pm   #17
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

That is the Colombia/HMV tonearm of the period set in the posh autochanger deck. Nothing seems wrong there. I grew up with a Columbia turntable with that arm (in the un-posh single player turntable) which was in a cabinet connected to a Murphy console. So I learned to change those needles at about age six!

For veneer repairs have a look at posts by retiredguy for some good examples and explanations of how he did it.

David

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Old 13th Jun 2019, 8:04 am   #18
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

Yes, the tonearm looks original: until very recently I had a 581, the previous year's bureau radiogram and a very similar instrument. The arm's just lost a little rectangular moulded insert from above the head, bearing the His Master's Voice insignia. Have a good look around the cabinet floor, if you're lucky it may have fallen there.

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Old 13th Jun 2019, 12:07 pm   #19
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

Ah, thats nice to hear. I did hope it was, just the few pictures I saw of 582s showed a different one, but timeline wise this makes sense, I believe its an EMI K3 autochanger? possibly the first kind of autochanger? I noticed the badge missing on the arm, and searched online for pictures only to find most examples also missing the badge. Hopefully I can get one somewhere or a good enough image to produce a copy

I imagine an enthusiast of sorts owned it before, as a bag of "bits" was included, some of the knobs from the changer were taken off, I expect they started work but never finished it.

I haven't removed the chassis to look underneath yet and see how "got at" it is. On the surface all valves etc are present.
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 4:55 pm   #20
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Default Re: HMV 582 Options

Here are a couple of photos of the badge, one fairly natural and the other with reflective flash showing the amount of detail: hard to imagine being able to produce a convincing copy other than by moulding from an original. My 581 stayed in the NE, but this is the same model of deck fitted to the 570A that has come with me.

Paul
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