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Old 1st Feb 2020, 6:13 pm   #1
Mick Parry
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Default Bell not ringing.

Chaps

I have an ivory 332L which I have had for many years and up to now it has worked perfectly. I also have a Gigaset set of 3 cordless phones throughout the house.

My ISP is Virgin Media and they have just upgraded me to VOIP.

The problem is that if someone rings me, I can hear the other person and they can hear me but the 332L bell does not ring. The cordless phones all work perfectly.

The Engineer wants to fix the problem but he does not know what to do.

Does anyone have any idea what the cause of this could be ?

Many thanks

Mick
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Old 1st Feb 2020, 6:24 pm   #2
ThePillenwerfer
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Default Re: Bell not ringing.

My bet is that there's no ringing capacitor connected. Try linking terminals 10 and 11 in the 332.
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Last edited by ThePillenwerfer; 1st Feb 2020 at 6:42 pm. Reason: Added diagram.
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Old 1st Feb 2020, 7:51 pm   #3
Mick Parry
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Default Re: Bell not ringing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePillenwerfer View Post
My bet is that there's no ringing capacitor connected. Try linking terminals 10 and 11 in the 332.
Hi

Thanks for the reply, however, the bell did ring before they converted to VOIP.

Is it the VOIP that has rendered a capacitor necessary ?

Regards

Mick
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Old 1st Feb 2020, 9:18 pm   #4
OscarFoxtrot
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Default Re: Bell not ringing.

The phone was probably plugged into an ordinary BT line socket, which includes the ringing capacitor and presents the ring signal on pin 3 of the line jack.

The Virgin VoIP output is probably 2-wire only on BT pins 2 and 5 (or pins 3 and 4 of the RJ11).

You can also get RJ11 to BT adapters that include a ringing capacitor.
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Old 1st Feb 2020, 9:32 pm   #5
Graham G3ZVT
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Default Re: Bell not ringing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick Parry View Post

Is it the VOIP that has rendered a capacitor necessary ?

Regards

Mick
In short, yes.

The short 'RJ11 to "BT" socket' cable they supply, to connect your phone to the FSX port on the router has no capacitor, they get away with this because 99% of phones in use don't need it.
If you don't want to do "ThePillenwerfer" mod, find an ADSL/VDSL filter and plug it between the "BT" socket and the phone(s).
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Old 1st Feb 2020, 9:54 pm   #6
Mick Parry
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Default Re: Bell not ringing.

Hi

I am totally non technical, so please excuse my illiteracy. Will this be ok

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RJ11-Plug...-/262671846092

Regards

Mick
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Old 1st Feb 2020, 10:52 pm   #7
Dave Moll
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Default Re: Bell not ringing.

Yes, that should work. I have an identical one which I use successfully to connect a three-wire configured telephone to a capacitorless source (a fixed wireless terminal in my case).

N.B. the link is included simply to clarify what I mean by a FWT.
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Old 2nd Feb 2020, 12:10 am   #8
Mick Parry
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Default Re: Bell not ringing.

Thank you

I shall order one.

Many thanks

Mick
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Old 2nd Feb 2020, 11:41 am   #9
mike_newcomb
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Default Re: Bell not ringing.

Hi Mick,

bear in mind old Phones use connection 3 for the ring, whereas modern phones may not.

This can mislead as your are comparing against (modern?) Cordless phones.
I had a similar problem to you and eventually found the Broadband filter was missing pins 3 and 4.

Regards - Mike
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 5:50 pm   #10
Oldcodger
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Default Re: Bell not ringing.

Very simple cure on a slave line jack if it's a slave on first socket is to wire up a telephone capacitor between pins 2 & 3 of the socket.
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 8:52 pm   #11
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Default Re: Bell not ringing.

Quote:
[Very simple cure on a slave line jack if it's a slave on first socket is to wire up a telephone capacitor between pins 2 & 3 of the socket.
I know the OP has Virgin, but don’t get adding more bell capacitors( in addition to the NTE/master ) on a conventional copper broadband line, as it will reduce your speed and likely cause instability.
An ADSL filter between VOIP phone socket on modem and wiring would probably work. You might need a lead with a phone plug at both ends though.
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Old 26th Feb 2020, 6:09 am   #12
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Default Re: Bell not ringing.

The method that I favour is to wire the old telephone exactly as on the associated N diagram (that is, with the internal bell capacitor in-circuit). Connect the line cord to a suitable Block Terminal ('junction box') but fit a 3k3 resistor in place of the extension bell strap (this puts the resistor in series with the telephone bell). Connect the line wire terminals in the Block Terminal to the outside 2 contacts of the Plug 431A (normal UK telephone plug).

Although you now may get bell tinkle (is that a real problem?) you don't have to worry about a capacitor in the master socket. And the telephone is 'original' inside and out.
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Old 26th Feb 2020, 3:31 pm   #13
Oldcodger
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Default Re: Bell not ringing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
Quote:
[Very simple cure on a slave line jack if it's a slave on first socket is to wire up a telephone capacitor between pins 2 & 3 of the socket.
I know the OP has Virgin, but don’t get adding more bell capacitors( in addition to the NTE/master ) on a conventional copper broadband line, as it will reduce your speed and likely cause instability.
An ADSL filter between VOIP phone socket on modem and wiring would probably work. You might need a lead with a phone plug at both ends though.

Tim- I suggested this on the first socket ( adding a capacitor between terminals 2 & 3) of a slave as a resolution of problem. A lot of the firms I worked for would only order in master sockets ,as buying in bulk meant that install engineers had the best stuff at lowest price. Simple master - slave conversion was removal of the capacitor. Hence why I and a lot of other systems engineers saved the caps, added wires and if caught short of a master had a capacitor to fit. The resistor would still be in place on a "modified" master. As for the ADSL filter, it's not needed on every phone if the ADSL & phone paths are split as close to PC as possible and then house wiring returned as multi plan 1A. Example 1- I split ADSL and phone at master and run the house WiFi . Example 2- I run the ADSL+phone to socket ( 2W) close to PC. Fit filter and send ADSL to PC, and then return phone to master socket to supply rest of house.
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