1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

sarah Y · 14th Jan 2021, 6:36 pm

Hi there,

Hope someone might be able to help me here.

I'm looking for a valuation for my radio pictured below that was restored in 2010. Please see the following threads back in 2010 regarding its restoration by one of your members Howard:
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=50409

I am pleased to say it is in the same good condition and in full working order just as Howard left it. It hasn't really been used very much hence why i have decided to sell it.

It does come with some additional items but I"m not entirely sure what they are for but i can photograph them if any one is interested.

As i am not an expert on vintage radios I wld be hugely grateful for any advise on what price i might look to sell this lovely radio for.

thank you for reading this.
Thanking you in advance,

Kind wishes, Sarah

dave walsh · 14th Jan 2021, 7:00 pm

That's a very good looking set. I think I recall Howard's thread at the time. Your heading made me think it might have eleven valves at first but Howard only found seven

Given it's size and the reputation for quality that these sets have 11 would not have seemed so out of the question. I'm wondering what the other items are?

Dave W

paulsherwin · 14th Jan 2021, 7:10 pm

These are nice early 50s German sets, and were some of the earliest models to offer FM (the West Germans got into FM broadcasting very early on). Quite a few German domestic sets like these were brought back by British servicemen after serving with the BAOR - I think they could buy them through the NAAFI without paying tax.

This example has obviously been well restored, though I'm afraid it may not be worth as much as you hope - maybe only £30-£50.

mark pirate · 14th Jan 2021, 8:42 pm

I personally think it is worth a bit more than Paul's estimate, considering it has been well restored, and fitted with a new magic eye.

If it were mine, I would stick it on ebay with a starting bid of £75.
That does not sound unreasonable for such a set, I am sure it would find a buyer.

Mark

Nickthedentist · 14th Jan 2021, 8:50 pm

Yes, I think that would be a fair start. You could even put a link to the restoration thread so that potential buyers know what's been done.

Note that the glass tuning scale is easily broken in sets like this, so sending them via couriers is a gamble.

Good luck,

N.

paulsherwin · 14th Jan 2021, 8:58 pm

All these things are worth whatever somebody is prepared to pay for them of course. It's a handsome radio, and I hope it does well. Either eBay or a specialist vintage radio auction are probably the best ways to go.

Nickthedentist · 14th Jan 2021, 9:01 pm

Absolutely.

Here's a list of some recent prices achieved for (a selection of different) Saba Radios on eBay, in different states of repair and in various countries too:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_o...radio&_sacat=0

dave walsh · 14th Jan 2021, 9:33 pm

Interesting Nick. The Villengen has "twelve" valves I see and the Saba 350 has a little of Murphy styling about it to my eye but in lighter wood!

Dave W

Cobaltblue · 14th Jan 2021, 9:38 pm

I don't think the number has anything to do with the number of valves its just part of the model number there is a Villingen 100

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/saba_villingen_100.html

Cheers

Mike T

Joe_Lorenz · 14th Jan 2021, 10:16 pm

Hello Mike,

you are absolutely right. I have a Freiburg 7 Automatic that has 12 valves and a Freiburg 14 Automatic that has 14 valves. The overall quality of SABA is indeed very good, but the "Automatic" motor tuning sets can burn a lot of midnight oil to adjust. Some pre war SABA sets had legendary very poor "SABA" capacitors. Later the 50's sets founded a solid reputation, so these get easily sold on ebay today.

Located in the south west of Germany, Villingen in the "Black Forest", SABA manufacturers took pride to achieve a "Schwarzwald-Uhr-Qualität".

Regards, Joe

dave walsh · 15th Jan 2021, 11:19 am

Oh dear I can't get this right can I? I keep misreading the headings

It's NOT "Villengen 12 Tube Radio" but Villengen 12 ....Tube Radio! [It didn't help that the "tube" word is repeated in the title].

Anyway thanks to Joe for confirming that there are sets in the range with more than enough valves to play with

.

Dave W

I'm a particular fan of the German TV series "Heimat" which represents perhaps a sense of nostalgia/homeland [as I understand it] but the reference to deeper aspects of land/community [in it's deepest sense] apparently doesn't really translate into the English language! This was very much stressed when the second [1960's] series was first shown in the UK during the eighties. It's my favourite section and partly deals with the production of high quality of optical items in much the same way that you have described the location of SABA and it's ethos! I suspect that many people may now have a feeling of heimat towards these quality radios?

Nickthedentist · 15th Jan 2021, 11:40 am

All these Continental sets seem to be in demand, especially if in good, restored condition. Even the magic eye on yours looks bright, which is a rarity, and can cost a fortune to sort out if it's not. Yours is a fairly basic one compared with most, but pretty posh compared with your average British set of the period.

The main thing against them is their size.

Sarah, I'm sure yours could be sold for a fair sum if you go about it the right way.

Joe_Lorenz · 15th Jan 2021, 11:29 pm

Yes, the magic eye is an important point worth mentioning. It can cost much money if you have to replace an uncommon or sought type like EM 11, AM 4, EM 34/35 , EFM 11.

Most 50's Continental sets have a very "standard" cabinet design whereas among British sets of the era you may find very stylish outer appearances. As seen from my point of view, located in the middle of Germany.

@ Dave: BTW, the counterpart to "Heimat" can be seen in "Upstairs, Downstairs". My parents as well as my grandparents did not miss a single episode! I remember once I was ordered to change the PL 504 and PY88 valves in granddad's Korting b/w telly to avoid the risk that it might develop a fault during the episode!

Joe

sarah Y · 21st Jan 2021, 5:51 pm

Thank you everyone for your kind replies. greatly appreciated. please see attached photos of parts that i have. Anyone have any ideas what they are?!!

mark pirate · 22nd Jan 2021, 10:29 am

I don't think the item in picture 1 is related to the radio

Picture 2 are valves, possibly the original ones that were replaced during restoration.
Picture 3 are the original caps & components removed from the set during restoration.

Hope this helps.

Mark

paulsherwin · 22nd Jan 2021, 12:57 pm

I agree with Mark. The first item appears to be some sort of shower thermostat.

Many restorers like to retain the parts which have been changed during a restoration, particularly if doing a commercial job for a customer.

The plug in the third picture looks like a Schuko. This may well have been the original mains plug used in Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko

Nickthedentist · 22nd Jan 2021, 2:33 pm

Item 1 is a thermostatic cartridge from a shower, similar to: https://www.divapor.com/spares/showe...YaAlstEALw_wcB

And the guys who restored it really know their stuff, so it will have been properly restored, not just botched and buffed!

dave walsh · 22nd Jan 2021, 3:37 pm

Sarah [p14] you were not to know but it is amusing all the same

. Howard is well known for the high quality of his work but some of the people who attempt to repair radios can be justifiably described as a "Right Shower".

I'm fascinated [and amused again] by your story about the valves Joe and [of course] Up Stairs Downstairs is extraordinarily popular over here still, along with it's successor "Down turn Abbey". With the greatest of respect to your parents though, I don't think USDS had either the breadth or depth of Heimat. I hadn't realised that Reitz had suffered such catastrophic losses and reached the bottom before starting to try and understand how he became a film maker by writing about his own life and family history. This turned into an extraordinary illustration of the German experience. The lead actress in the 60's second series always reminds me of Juliet Stevenson somehow! One series that had such a strong effect on the UK audience was the Forsyte Saga in the mid sixties. Pubs emptied and everything shut down whilst it was on!

Dave W

paulsherwin · 22nd Jan 2021, 4:06 pm

Please stay on topic.

Joe_Lorenz · 22nd Jan 2021, 10:04 pm

Yes, Paul, you are right. I got to admit fond old memories are tempting to tell about.

Talking about the mains plug: It is right that the white item in picture #3 is a Schuko plug, maybe even of Siemens Schuckert manufacture.
But not original equipment of any SABA radio though! Those gents up in the Black Forest (= Schwarzwald) took pride in having made their own plugs. Look here:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/re...zsteckern.html
Sorry for the German only text in the link.

14th Jan 2021, 6:36 pm	#1
sarah Y Diode Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Lewes, East Sussex, UK Posts: 3	1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio Hi there, Hope someone might be able to help me here. I'm looking for a valuation for my radio pictured below that was restored in 2010. Please see the following threads back in 2010 regarding its restoration by one of your members Howard: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=50409 I am pleased to say it is in the same good condition and in full working order just as Howard left it. It hasn't really been used very much hence why i have decided to sell it. It does come with some additional items but I"m not entirely sure what they are for but i can photograph them if any one is interested. As i am not an expert on vintage radios I wld be hugely grateful for any advise on what price i might look to sell this lovely radio for. thank you for reading this. Thanking you in advance, Kind wishes, Sarah Attached Thumbnails

14th Jan 2021, 7:00 pm	#2
dave walsh Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex. Posts: 5,817	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio That's a very good looking set. I think I recall Howard's thread at the time. Your heading made me think it might have eleven valves at first but Howard only found seven Given it's size and the reputation for quality that these sets have 11 would not have seemed so out of the question. I'm wondering what the other items are? Dave W

14th Jan 2021, 8:42 pm	#4
mark pirate Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK Posts: 5,185	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio I personally think it is worth a bit more than Paul's estimate, considering it has been well restored, and fitted with a new magic eye. If it were mine, I would stick it on ebay with a starting bid of £75. That does not sound unreasonable for such a set, I am sure it would find a buyer. Mark

14th Jan 2021, 8:50 pm	#5
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,866	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio Yes, I think that would be a fair start. You could even put a link to the restoration thread so that potential buyers know what's been done. Note that the glass tuning scale is easily broken in sets like this, so sending them via couriers is a gamble. Good luck, N.

14th Jan 2021, 8:58 pm	#6
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,975	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio All these things are worth whatever somebody is prepared to pay for them of course. It's a handsome radio, and I hope it does well. Either eBay or a specialist vintage radio auction are probably the best ways to go.

14th Jan 2021, 7:10 pm	#3
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,975	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio These are nice early 50s German sets, and were some of the earliest models to offer FM (the West Germans got into FM broadcasting very early on). Quite a few German domestic sets like these were brought back by British servicemen after serving with the BAOR - I think they could buy them through the NAAFI without paying tax. This example has obviously been well restored, though I'm afraid it may not be worth as much as you hope - maybe only £30-£50.

14th Jan 2021, 9:01 pm	#7
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,866	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio Absolutely. Here's a list of some recent prices achieved for (a selection of different) Saba Radios on eBay, in different states of repair and in various countries too:- https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_o...radio&_sacat=0

14th Jan 2021, 9:33 pm	#8
dave walsh Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex. Posts: 5,817	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio Interesting Nick. The Villengen has "twelve" valves I see and the Saba 350 has a little of Murphy styling about it to my eye but in lighter wood! Dave W

14th Jan 2021, 9:38 pm	#9
Cobaltblue Moderator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Exeter, Devon and Poole, Dorset UK. Posts: 6,880	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio I don't think the number has anything to do with the number of valves its just part of the model number there is a Villingen 100 https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/saba_villingen_100.html Cheers Mike T __________________ Invisible airwaves crackle with life or at least they used to Mike T BVWS member. www.cossor.co.uk

14th Jan 2021, 10:16 pm	#10
Joe_Lorenz Hexode Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Hohenroda, Eastern Hesse, Germany Posts: 462	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio Hello Mike, you are absolutely right. I have a Freiburg 7 Automatic that has 12 valves and a Freiburg 14 Automatic that has 14 valves. The overall quality of SABA is indeed very good, but the "Automatic" motor tuning sets can burn a lot of midnight oil to adjust. Some pre war SABA sets had legendary very poor "SABA" capacitors. Later the 50's sets founded a solid reputation, so these get easily sold on ebay today. Located in the south west of Germany, Villingen in the "Black Forest", SABA manufacturers took pride to achieve a "Schwarzwald-Uhr-Qualität". Regards, Joe

15th Jan 2021, 11:19 am	#11
dave walsh Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex. Posts: 5,817	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio Oh dear I can't get this right can I? I keep misreading the headings It's NOT "Villengen 12 Tube Radio" but Villengen 12 ....Tube Radio! [It didn't help that the "tube" word is repeated in the title]. Anyway thanks to Joe for confirming that there are sets in the range with more than enough valves to play with. Dave W I'm a particular fan of the German TV series "Heimat" which represents perhaps a sense of nostalgia/homeland [as I understand it] but the reference to deeper aspects of land/community [in it's deepest sense] apparently doesn't really translate into the English language! This was very much stressed when the second [1960's] series was first shown in the UK during the eighties. It's my favourite section and partly deals with the production of high quality of optical items in much the same way that you have described the location of SABA and it's ethos! I suspect that many people may now have a feeling of heimat towards these quality radios? Last edited by dave walsh; 15th Jan 2021 at 11:42 am.

15th Jan 2021, 11:40 am	#12
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,866	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio All these Continental sets seem to be in demand, especially if in good, restored condition. Even the magic eye on yours looks bright, which is a rarity, and can cost a fortune to sort out if it's not. Yours is a fairly basic one compared with most, but pretty posh compared with your average British set of the period. The main thing against them is their size. Sarah, I'm sure yours could be sold for a fair sum if you go about it the right way. Last edited by Nickthedentist; 15th Jan 2021 at 11:59 am.

15th Jan 2021, 11:29 pm	#13
Joe_Lorenz Hexode Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Hohenroda, Eastern Hesse, Germany Posts: 462	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio Yes, the magic eye is an important point worth mentioning. It can cost much money if you have to replace an uncommon or sought type like EM 11, AM 4, EM 34/35 , EFM 11. Most 50's Continental sets have a very "standard" cabinet design whereas among British sets of the era you may find very stylish outer appearances. As seen from my point of view, located in the middle of Germany. @ Dave: BTW, the counterpart to "Heimat" can be seen in "Upstairs, Downstairs". My parents as well as my grandparents did not miss a single episode! I remember once I was ordered to change the PL 504 and PY88 valves in granddad's Korting b/w telly to avoid the risk that it might develop a fault during the episode! Joe

21st Jan 2021, 5:51 pm	#14
sarah Y Diode Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Lewes, East Sussex, UK Posts: 3	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio Thank you everyone for your kind replies. greatly appreciated. please see attached photos of parts that i have. Anyone have any ideas what they are?!! Attached Thumbnails

22nd Jan 2021, 10:29 am	#15
mark pirate Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK Posts: 5,185	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio I don't think the item in picture 1 is related to the radio Picture 2 are valves, possibly the original ones that were replaced during restoration. Picture 3 are the original caps & components removed from the set during restoration. Hope this helps. Mark

22nd Jan 2021, 12:57 pm	#16
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,975	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio I agree with Mark. The first item appears to be some sort of shower thermostat. Many restorers like to retain the parts which have been changed during a restoration, particularly if doing a commercial job for a customer. The plug in the third picture looks like a Schuko. This may well have been the original mains plug used in Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko

22nd Jan 2021, 2:33 pm	#17
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,866	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio Item 1 is a thermostatic cartridge from a shower, similar to: https://www.divapor.com/spares/showe...YaAlstEALw_wcB And the guys who restored it really know their stuff, so it will have been properly restored, not just botched and buffed!

22nd Jan 2021, 3:37 pm	#18
dave walsh Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex. Posts: 5,817	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio Sarah [p14] you were not to know but it is amusing all the same. Howard is well known for the high quality of his work but some of the people who attempt to repair radios can be justifiably described as a "Right Shower". I'm fascinated [and amused again] by your story about the valves Joe and [of course] Up Stairs Downstairs is extraordinarily popular over here still, along with it's successor "Down turn Abbey". With the greatest of respect to your parents though, I don't think USDS had either the breadth or depth of Heimat. I hadn't realised that Reitz had suffered such catastrophic losses and reached the bottom before starting to try and understand how he became a film maker by writing about his own life and family history. This turned into an extraordinary illustration of the German experience. The lead actress in the 60's second series always reminds me of Juliet Stevenson somehow! One series that had such a strong effect on the UK audience was the Forsyte Saga in the mid sixties. Pubs emptied and everything shut down whilst it was on! Dave W Last edited by dave walsh; 22nd Jan 2021 at 3:45 pm.

22nd Jan 2021, 4:06 pm	#19
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,975	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio Please stay on topic.

22nd Jan 2021, 10:04 pm	#20
Joe_Lorenz Hexode Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Hohenroda, Eastern Hesse, Germany Posts: 462	Re: 1952 SABA Schwarzwald W11 Valve AM.FM Mains table radio Yes, Paul, you are right. I got to admit fond old memories are tempting to tell about. Talking about the mains plug: It is right that the white item in picture #3 is a Schuko plug, maybe even of Siemens Schuckert manufacture. But not original equipment of any SABA radio though! Those gents up in the Black Forest (= Schwarzwald) took pride in having made their own plugs. Look here: https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/re...zsteckern.html Sorry for the German only text in the link.