405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

[Mr Hoover]

Llandrindod Wells is nearby, I think a Ch1
relay was there.
That aerial looks a bit short for Ch1,
would Sutton Coldfield have put in a fringy signal there on Ch4?

[G6Tanuki]

The antenna shown in #1017 looks indeed to be a CB one. The vertical top bit would on close examination seems to be helically wound, like the old Firestik.

The radial - there should be two more - is also probably helically loaded, in the style of the Sirio Signal Keeper.

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by Rich Woods

Spotted this on Saturday in Builth Wells. Not too sure about 405 transmitters in mid Wales, mostly low power I believe filling the main holes, any thoughts anyone?

I suspect it used to have a folded dipole in the larger of the gaps between the elements , but this and the associated coax download has been devoured by the weather over half a century or more.

[SteveCG]

Re post 1020 Builth Wells.

I think that is an earlyish "Telerection" 3 element that has lost its Delta Match on the dipole (the middle element). Being V pol it could be Sutton Coldfield on channel B4 or Wenvoe on B5. (llandrindod Wells on channel B1 was H pol.) Perhaps if Rich woods could remember the direction we could solve the puzzle?

The characteristic 15 degree tilt (using a bespoke mounting) was a Telerection speciality on their 3 and 4 element designs. However looking closely at the photo I don't see the remains of the Delta Match structure that would have survived...

[jb332]

I saw that aerial in the summer when I was in Builth Wells, I believe it’s a fringe-area Wenvoe Ch5.

[akuram1]

Certainly looks very channel 5 to me. Rods far too short for channel 1. Looks in very good condition for its age, must have been well erected.

[Rich Woods]

I would say roughly south east so probably C5 Wenvoe. The only thing I would say is that it’s s testament to the resilience of the band 1 signal that it would get past all the hills in the way in a usable form and that a 3 element aerial would be good enough to pull it in. I would have thought that Sutton Coldfield or even Holme Moss in its elivated location might have given a stronger signal because of the geography. Range & height vs obstructing hills.

[jb332]

The Wenvoe signal certainly penetrated well in a general northerly direction. I took this photo near Rhandirmwyn (near Llandovery) earlier this year

[dglcomp]

Originally Posted by Rhgbristol

Re. The first picture in post 1007

I recognise the UHF 18 element aerial as a Telefield aerial, manufactured by the Bristol- based manufacturer, based in St Philips, Bristol.

It would have been made between 1964 and about 1975. There were many of these erected in Bristol during that time. We had one on my parents house which they had erected in the summer of 1967 - for BBC2.

It was well made, from a 3/4” boom and stirrup, and 3/8” elements.

Many can still be seen on Bristol rooftops still surviving to this day.

I would assume it was the same aerial my Gran had in her loft for receiving Mendip from Crewkerne.
Interestingly she had two UHF aerials in the loft each supplying a different TV, one being a much newer style of antenna so probably fitted in the mid 80's when her mother moved in. Both antenna's were simply hung from the rafters with string, the newer antenna, I believe, having it's cradle still attached so might have been used somewhere else at some point.

[Mr Hoover]

Originally Posted by jb332

The Wenvoe signal certainly penetrated well in a general northerly direction. I took this photo near Rhandirmwyn (near Llandovery) earlier this year

It didn't do too badly in a southern direction either, being used as a backup for the North Hesaary Tor Channel Islands retransmission off air feed!

[Rich Woods]

Originally Posted by Mr Hoover

It didn't do too badly in a southern direction either, being used as a backup for the North Hesaary Tor Channel Islands retransmission off air feed!

Wow! I didn’t know that. The BBC must have regretted giving up Band 1 after 405 close down, the potential for long range DTV transmission could have saved them a fortune on transmission power.

[dglcomp]

Originally Posted by Mr Hoover

It didn't do too badly in a southern direction either, being used as a backup for the North Hesaary Tor Channel Islands retransmission off air feed!

I know after DSO you could get the PSB MUXs in Crewkerne with an aerial aligned for Mendip which would be off axis for Wenvoe. It was certainly a good thing when TV's had selectable regions so you could get the right region as originally Wenvoe had lower channel allocations.

Some of the long distance off-air broadcast links to the likes of Fair Isle and Alderney are quite impressive. Even more so the Nicam UHF radio RBL to Alderney that only had an erp of 250W!

[Rich Woods]

Slightly o/t I know, Irish Freeview has a slightly different system but I’ve often wondered about having a go for Leinster mountain reception. I’m on the coast in West Wales but at low elevation. We used to get the analog TG4 broadcasts fine in the Cambrian mountains at 800ft elevation.

[Mr Hoover]

Originally Posted by Rich Woods

Slightly o/t I know, Irish Freeview has a slightly different system but I’ve often wondered about having a go for Leinster mountain reception. I’m on the coast in West Wales but at low elevation. We used to get the analog TG4 broadcasts fine in the Cambrian mountains at 800ft elevation.

Sure you'd probably receive it,
Trev in Scotland receives some NI signals,
from Divis I think.

[Mr Hoover]

Originally Posted by Rich Woods

Wow! I didn’t know that. The BBC must have regretted giving up Band 1 after 405 close down, the potential for long range DTV transmission could have saved them a fortune on transmission power.

Problem with band 1 now is that there is
so much local interference, Switch mode power supplies etc etc.
Band 3 is a better option but that's gone to DAB. of course.

[emeritus]

I think that some countries might use Band III for DTV broadcasting. The modulator of my Icecrypt T5000 has undocumented menu-selectable output settings for NTSC and both types of European PAL in addition to its UK PAL default, and searches Band III before scanning the UHF band when doing a channel scan.

[Mr Hoover]

Originally Posted by emeritus

I think that some countries might use Band III for DTV broadcasting. The modulator of my Icecrypt T5000 has undocumented menu-selectable output settings for NTSC and both types of European PAL in addition to its UK PAL default, and searches Band III before scanning the UHF band when doing a channel scan.

Luxembourg may still use digital Ch7 in band 111.

[alanmoore]

Once a common sight in South London. Band 1 dipole and "toast rack" band 3 array. Taken in Sutton town centre near civic public offices.

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by alanmoore

Once a common sight in south London .Band 1 dipole and "toast rack" band 3 array .Taken in Sutton town centre near civic public offices .

Interesting that in the second of the photos you can see the 'stubs' about 1/3 of the way up the large dipole element, these serve to decouple the excess length of the dipole when operating on Band III.

[SteveCG]

Three pics of the same aerial stack, taken in Bourton-on-the-Water a few days ago. A 4 element Band I, most likely TV channel B4 for BBC TV from Sutton Coldfield. The aerial could be made by Premier Aerials of Cheltenham.

Also what looks like the remnants of a Band III slot aerial made by J-Beam, as well as the remnants of a Band II FM aerial.