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Old 17th Apr 2018, 1:48 pm   #1
petulia
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Default CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

Hi guys,

I have recently got in to vintage audio, bought myself some turntables and "vinyls" to go with. I started looking at amps and stumbled across a CA 1010 got a bit carried away after a shandy I bought one for £350 and £20 postage at the weekend. Not sure if this was a huge amount for one or not?

The description stated 'in good working order with new bulbs and switches and pots cleaned with deoxit'. Is it worth taking it to a specialist for a service? If so, can anyone suggest where? I am based in Lincolnshire but could post if necessary.

The next question is speakers, I do eventually want to go for a 4 speaker set up. Can anyone recommend speaker specs which would be appropriate? Or any particular speakers, I would like some speakers from a similar era unless I am better buying newer?

Edit on speakers. My budget would be sub £500 for the speakers.

Any comments, suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks
Harry

Last edited by paulsherwin; 17th Apr 2018 at 2:18 pm. Reason: To comply with forum rules
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 2:21 pm   #2
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

This is a 1977 Yamaha integrated amplifier. There's no reason to do anything to it if it's working normally.

It is a stereo amp. Why do you want four speakers? Do you want to wire a pair in a different room?
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 3:23 pm   #3
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

I was just a bit paranoid as I didn't want to cause damage to such a great piece.

I wanted four speakers, one pair would go in the kitchen area (open planned from lounge) and because it would be louder? The second part is a question, please forgive me as I am very new to this sort of set up
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 4:07 pm   #4
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

Adding additional speakers will cetainly not make the amp sound any "louder". I know this is a powerful, amp I but can't remember if this has provision for connecting 2 pairs of speakers - has it? In terms of what speakers to buy, they will need to have a high power handing capability to match the amplifier. At your price point (I assume £500 just for one pair) there are many to choose from. Tannoy or Dynaudio would give some warth to the Yamaha.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 5:02 pm   #5
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

A second pair of speakers in the same area is likely to badly upset the stereo imaging. Whether it would be louder depends on a number of factors, but how loud do you need? Your amp has a nominal output of 180W, more than enough for domestic use with 'normal' speakers; if your primary speakers can handle that, there's little point in sharing it with a second pair.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 5:06 pm   #6
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

It may be worth doing if the room is large and elongated. You would use both pairs for casual background listening, say when cooking, and just the main pair for serious listening.

This is a very powerful amplifier, and will damage many mainstream hifi speakers if used at anything like maximum volume.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 5:49 pm   #7
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

So after reading your comments I will be better off getting a good set of first speakers and give it a good listen before I dream about a second pair? The second pair were a thought if ever have a party but I guess in a house a single good pair of speakers will be enough.

I have read that I am better to buy speakers that can handle over the output of the amp to give headroom. Can anyone suggest what sort of wattage I should be looking at for the speakers?
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 7:57 pm   #8
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

You have not confirmed as yet that the amplifier has sockets for 2 sets of speakers?
Your amplifier is rated at 150 watts peak so obviously you will need speakers that can handle that or more. If you want high power handlng "party" speakers instead of accurate Hi Fi units, look for a pair of used Cerwin-Vega speakers. They will give you plenty of bass and general ooomphhh......
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 8:17 pm   #9
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

Edward, this amp does support switchable main and remote speakers.

It's a matter of personal preference, but I would concentrate on the main speakers, with a pair of relatively cheap bookshelf speakers such as Wharfedale Diamonds for the kitchen end. There are many decent speakers of this type available very cheaply for local collection on eBay.

I would normally advise period speakers for this setup, but almost all 70s speakers will struggle to handle the amp power output if you decide to crank things up. Many of them are only rated for 20 or 30 watts.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 10:08 pm   #10
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

Richer sounds are your friend here.
They had Wharfedale diamonds for less than £40 a pair, bargain mini bookshelf jobs that will be fine as kitchen speakers you can wall mount.
Then use the balance for a decent pair of floor standers, any modern speaker will be fine on that amp.

A
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 12:54 am   #11
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

As far as speakers are concerned, surely the Yamaha NS1000 is the natural choice for this amp as that's probably the speaker that Yamaha intended it to be used with. Unfortunately, having just had a quick look, you'll be lucky to find them within budget.

While many have mentioned that it is considered preferable to use speakers that can handle the full amplifier power, there is another school of thought (particularly amongst live sound engineers) that suggests that the amplifier should be around twice the power of the speakers. The thinking goes that clipping distortion is more damaging to speakers than clean loud sounds so a higher power amp is less likely to be driven into clipping.
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 5:30 am   #12
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

Normal speech and music exhibits reducing power at higher frequencies. So hifi speakers are built with mid-range and tweeter drivers capable of handling progressively less power than the bass driver. The wattage rating of the overall speaker refers to what it can manage at low frequencies. At parties, it's usual to wind the wick up to eleven or more. Amplifiers which really aren't powerful enough get driven into clipping. Clipping produces harmonic content, and the power of these locally-created harmonics of the low-frequency content can easily be a lot greater than the original content. The result is burned-out tweeters.

This is a common cause of damage in speakers. If you're shopping around for second-hand speakers, you'll need to listen carefully to make sure all the drivers are working. You are very likely to come across some units damaged at parties. Sometimes the owner knows and is trying to unload them, other times the owner isn't even aware something is wrong, and there are plenty of undamaged speakers out there.

So, as mentioned by James, above, one way to avoid damaging your own speakers is to have an amplifier which is still comfortably within its power capabilities at your party sound level, and not turning it up any higher. I've got my big amp set up so that none of my sources can drive it into hard clipping.

The second way to avoid damaging your good speakers is to take them away and hide them, have a second pair of cheap but high power ones for the party. Either something sacrificial or else speakers intended for use at gigs, which tend to have high power HF drivers.

If shopping for second-hand speakers, check the condition of any foam surrounds to the cones. These disintegrate with age. With care, new surrounds can be glued in and make a fully satisfactory repair. With blown tweeters, you can often find a selection of modern tweeter units which will fit. The problem becomes one of choosing a unit which will smoothly take over from the other driver with the existing crossover circuit in the speaker cabinet. There are, however some tweeter units which are known to not have any easy substitutes like the Celestion HF1300.

You may be best off looking for some models which actually were very good but missed out on the cult status which pumps up second-hand prices. The Yamaha could be quite happy with the bigger floor-standing Mission models.

Oh, and avoid operating speaker selection switches when the amp is playing. Disconnecting a running speaker generates a voltage spike and a spark at the switch, and risks damaging the amp. The manufacturers never did a wonderful job of protection, yet they put switches inside. Best turn down the volume, operate the switch, then turn back up.

There are plenty of threads on here about replacing dead tweeters and replacing rotted surrounds.

You'll find plenty of new speakers with rather high power ratings, and to an extent they have more capable drivers, on the other hand this is often to suit powerful amps needed by reduced efficiency from trying to get a lot of sound out of a fashionably small box.

David
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 8:44 am   #13
petulia
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

Thanks for all of your responses / advice.

Looking at the options I am going to need to save up a considerable amount to get a pair of speakers to suit the age of the amp.

Going on your advice David, these look like they are a bit of a steal:

https://www.richersounds.com/wharfed...230-black.html

Would these be an appropriate speaker?
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 9:42 am   #14
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

They will be fine, though various models of Diamonds have been in production for decades so you should be able to find a secondhand pair quite easily if you want one. The older models may have lower maximum power handling though. As has been said, this won't be a problem if you use the amp sensibly.
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 10:06 am   #15
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

As Paul says, you can still save a lot of money looking around second hand, but new ones avoid the risk that someone may have damaged them. Wharfedale is no longer a pundit-loved brand and so second-hand prices fall significantly from new. Their speakers are still good though and you ought to enjoy these. If you want to dig a little into Wharfedale's history look up 'Gilbert Briggs' He was a decent, no-nonsense Yorkshireman who knew what he was doing. Subsequent owners of the firm have stuck to the good quality and good price combination which is a refreshing change from what's been done to some other repspected brands.

Larger speakers have a significant advantage over small bookshelf jobs. To reproduce a certain level of sound at a certain frequency, you have to shift a certain volume of air. It's just physics. The lower the note or the higher the level, the more air to move. For a larger speaker this is easier and dodges a lot of compromises needed to attempt the same job from a smaller cabinet.

Different people have different tastes in speakers. They really do sound different and they are affected by your room rather a lot. Demos in shops can be misleading, they tend to use other equipment and position things to make them sound impressive to their ears. Your ears may have a different opinion! I've heard good speakers demonstrated in ways that would send me running.

The sign of really good hifi is that it is not at all impressive. It just vanishes, and leaves only the music!

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Old 18th Apr 2018, 2:47 pm   #16
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

So speakers are a minefield then! Am I better off sticking to 8ohm speakers? I read that if you go lower on the ohms then you go higher in wattage? Just that I am trying to at least narrow my search down a little.

I know I definitely want floor standing speakers as I have the space, I don't do TVs so this is the main centre piece in the living room.

I have to say I like the visual look of B&W
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 5:04 pm   #17
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

Well yes, they will need to be 8 ohms and most of the more modern Hi Fi speakers are. Don't worry about volume/wattage - your Yamaha will give more than enough output power, more than you could ever need without damaging yourself!
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 5:17 pm   #18
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

Most speakers will be 8 ohms. It's only a nominal thing anyway, I wouldn't pay much attention to it being as your amp has the muscle to drive pretty much anything.

Regarding speaker power ratings, it has a lot to do with how loud you want to listen to your music. For sure, you do not have to match the speaker rating to the amp, equally you are not obliged to have one of them 'more powerful' than the other. What you don't want to do is blow up an underrated speaker by playing too loud and similarly, there's no need to spend a lot on speakers that will handle '200W' because it's twice the power handling of your amp. Base your choice on how loud you want to listen.

Regarding using four speakers, it just isn't done generally as the music coming out of your amp will be 'stereo'. It's not quadraphonic (ie four channel), and extra speakers will spoil or blur the stereo 'image'. There is a case for using four speakers if you want to listen in another room. By that I mean have the second set of speakers in another room. Then you can use your setup with both sets of speakers being 'on' at the same time (in different rooms), or just in the second room or the main room, as the CA-1010 will allow you to select as appropriate.

It's unlikely to need a 'service'. If all the lamps are working, switches and pots all operative, then in a solid state amp a service is (generally) money for old rope! The only thing that may need tweaking is the quiescent currents, but TBH it's unlikely that it's far off, if at all, and it won't make an awful lot of difference (read you won't hear it).

I have the CR-2020 which is the 'sister model' receiver (tuner amp). Best of luck you've got a very nice amp there.

There's a lot of info about it including downloadable brochures etc etc here (it's free to sign up):https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_li.../ca-1010.shtml
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 10:52 pm   #19
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by petulia View Post
Looking at the options I am going to need to save up a considerable amount to get a pair of speakers to suit the age of the amp.
The trick is to find something that isn't fashionable. I've seen Spendor BC1's in your price range - they were an excellent speaker in their day and still very respectable these days. Celestion Ditton 44's were also decent floor standing speakers and the ones I've heard sound fine. I also have a pair of Dynatron floor standing speakers (not sure of the model number) which would also work well although they're probably not as well thought of as some of the more collectable names. With all of these you'll need to keep an eye on the volume control - they'll go pretty loud (and I've used my Dynatrons for small discos) but probably wouldn't like the continuous full power that your amp can supply.
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Old 20th Apr 2018, 8:12 am   #20
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Default Re: CA 1010 amplifier advice needed

Okay, well I certainly have enough food for thought. I shall go away and begin research and trawling the internet. First I need to get saving as the amp has already blown my budget.

I will call back when I have a good idea or I am looking at something in particular. I think I may opt for some older speakers, more akin to the age of the amp. These will be used for general listening and then an extra pair if I feel I need any more volume for a party.

Pleased to say the amp has arrived and just need to test it on some speakers to make sure it does actually work but so far so good!
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