RCA CR88 Identification Help

[thoyer454]

Hello all.

I had another RCA radio follow me home the other day. At first glance I thought it was a CR-88A but upon further inspection there are several oddities.

I have posted a bunch of pictures on my website. Click on anyone for a larger image

https://www.thdesignsinc.com/rca_CR88.html

The rear panel does not match up with any of my other RCA radios and it does not have a 600 ohm speaker term strip. Plus the ant connections are in the corner unlike other the other RCA receivers I have (AR88, SC88, CR91A, CR88A).

There is no serial number stamped in the chassis.

Where the Rf section mates to the main chassis, clearance has been notched around where some of the screws / nuts are - in a crude manner.

I have not been able to find any date codes to clue me as to approx build date.

I'd appreciate your comments. I have asked several of the "experts" on this side of the pond and they are also a bit perplexed.

Regards,
Tom
W3TA

[Radio Wrangler]

There's very little knowledge of the later AR88 variants in the UK. I've never seen one with the triplet of small knobs in place of the RF and AF gain controls in the flesh. I didn't even know they existed until I found the American museum site.

We got inundated with AR88D and AR88LF. I have a fairly rare AR88 with no suffix and the R1556 mods.

Your panel and your main chassis seem to match as far as the triplet of gain/agc pots are concerned, but your RF chassis/main chassis fit looks hand-done. I suspect you either have a set made later by someone out of whatever bits he had available as some sort of repair or modification, or else you have a hand-made prototype.

My knowledge of AR88 antenna connections won't help. Both my sets have the huge coax connector fitted by the RAF.

I don't doubt that RCA did variations on antenna connections and anything else to keep customers happy, but it is those rough-cut notches to clear RF deck screws that make your set very interesting. It could be a key to an unknown area of AR88 series history.

After WWII the UK was badly impoverished and soldiered on, the government refurbished AR88s. One of mine has a mods sticker label on the panel gusset and it got a new PVC wiring harness in the 1950s. The British Murphy B40 and GEC BRT400 came along as improved sets, but were still low IF single-superhets. Then the Racal RA17 hit and life was never the same. So we never were in the market for CR88 family.

RCA built a number of AR8516L here in the sixties. It's an AC/DC shipgoing derivative of CRM-R6A. I quite fancy one, but I'd prefer the more normal PSU of the CRM-R6A, but sadly non of them seemed to have crossed the Atlantic.

David.

[turretslug]

That's rather intriguing. I get the impression that, whilst there were detail changes to component fitments (round- or square-can chokes, output transformer winding and connection options) and a little juggling of front-panel controls, the basic chassis tub and rear panel layout had stayed pretty much the same over the years through AR-, CR-, SC- models (though the -LF Montreal-made versions did their own thing with rear-panel fitments, your set is somewhat different to either of these).

It's well-known that a batch of early BC348s were taken back so that they could be retro-fitted with the LF beacon band in addition to HF coverage so that they were interchangeable with later sets- I wondered briefly if this was, say, a prototype that had been retro-fitted with later RF deck and front panel but I would hope that a shop refit would do rather better than those chewed-out notches.

I'm reminded of that old song about someone who worked in the Chevy factory and amassed a pile of parts over the years, finally assembling a bitsa car with umpteen different model year features!

That filter can block with its screw terminals is like the one that was fitted in mine- many seem to have riveted tag terminals.

A 5600pF audio coupling capacitor is unusual, too- the "standard" fit seems to have been parallelled 4700pF units. Also, the audio output transformer only has 4 terminals, rather than the 7 of later variants. The front of the chassis is missing the big cut-out around mode switch and headphone socket usually seen. My hunch of an early basic chassis with later RF deck and panel is deepening....

[dave walsh]

A interesting variation Tom It took me a very long time to find the serial number on my "conventional" AR88D, perhaps because it was a very light impression-I finally viewed it from the right angle [not A right angle]

Your "mystery set" has the standard frontage but hidden depths [as said already]. Are any of the frequency ranges on the dial very different than usual? Are the scrawled notes anything to do with the mods I wonder? It's definitely derived from the AR88 but that grey paintwork [the bulk of AR88's here seem to be black] somehow reminded me of the AR77. That's fairly rare predecessor in this country as far as I can tell but not similar [as might be expected] either visually or technically.

That song you referred to [T Slug] sounds very interesting -what is it I wonder?

Dave W

[ms660]

Originally Posted by dave walsh

That song you referred to [T Slug] sounds very interesting -what is it I wonder?Dave W

That reminds me of One piece at a Time by Mr Cash.

Lawrence

[Dave757]

Hi,

Wasn't the grey paint applied when they were refurbed by the Military?

I had an LF which had a smooth grey front, and also the panel was engraved
and the Tone control replaced with an IF gain control.

The best AR88 I ever had!

Kind regards
Dave

[FrankB]

I had an AR88 with the grey paint I bought from an estate.

Sold it "as is" for cheap, as he was a good friend. He rebuilt it and it's working still AFIK.

You might put a query in to Electric Radio Magazine here in the U.S. IIRC they had several articles on it.

[PsychMan]

I assume you have read everything on this site? : https://www.radioblvd.com/ar88.htm Do have a read if you haven't already.

I believe the "CR" models in general were post war (1945 on). The AR88LF became the CR91 as far as I remember, I have an AR88LF model which was made in 194 6and badged "AR88LF", but it does have characteristics of the CR91 in the front panel labelling. So perhaps there were some "in between" models. Plus yours has some modifications made by a particular service, Navy or Air service etc. There are some similar looking models on Henry's page referenced above.

Nice receiver
Adam

[dave walsh]

That'a a great site Adam and the product of a vast amount of research. I spent time there trying to solve the "missing" serial number issue re my set. I've always had an interest in Johnny Cash since the Fulsom Prison days Lawrence but I missed this song somehow [possibily a companion to "A Boy Named Sue" ]. I think you've hit the spot there

I've said before on the Forum, that I once bought a vehicle from a chap who worked for Unipart. It was suspiciously immaculate underneath the bonnett

Dave

[turretslug]

Originally Posted by ms660

That reminds me of One piece at a Time by Mr Cash.

Lawrence

Yep, that's the one I was thinking of

Colin

[thoyer454]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

There's very little knowledge of the later AR88 variants in the UK. I've never seen one with the triplet of small knobs in place of the RF and AF gain controls in the flesh. I didn't even know they existed until I found the American museum site.

We got inundated with AR88D and AR88LF. I have a fairly rare AR88 with no suffix and the R1556 mods.

Your panel and your main chassis seem to match as far as the triplet of gain/agc pots are concerned, but your RF chassis/main chassis fit looks hand-done. I suspect you either have a set made later by someone out of whatever bits he had available as some sort of repair or modification, or else you have a hand-made prototype.

My knowledge of AR88 antenna connections won't help. Both my sets have the huge coax connector fitted by the RAF.

I don't doubt that RCA did variations on antenna connections and anything else to keep customers happy, but it is those rough-cut notches to clear RF deck screws that make your set very interesting. It could be a key to an unknown area of AR88 series history.

After WWII the UK was badly impoverished and soldiered on, the government refurbished AR88s. One of mine has a mods sticker label on the panel gusset and it got a new PVC wiring harness in the 1950s. The British Murphy B40 and GEC BRT400 came along as improved sets, but were still low IF single-superhets. Then the Racal RA17 hit and life was never the same. So we never were in the market for CR88 family.

RCA built a number of AR8516L here in the sixties. It's an AC/DC shipgoing derivative of CRM-R6A. I quite fancy one, but I'd prefer the more normal PSU of the CRM-R6A, but sadly non of them seemed to have crossed the Atlantic.

David.

Hi David,

Thank you for the info.

I have an AR88D here that is in excellent condition. It came with paperwork saying it was bought from Peter Seymour Communications in Yorkshire. I have the original letters from Peter to the buyer in Miami FL for the sum of $230 USD. The letters are dated Feb 14th, 1962.

I also have the SC88, CR88A, CR91A and an AR8516 in my collection. All are in nice shape and have been restored electronically by me so I'm pretty familiar with these radios - but always learning new things!!

Regards,
Tom
W3TA

Originally Posted by dave walsh

A interesting variation Tom It took me a very long time to find the serial number on my "conventional" AR88D, perhaps because it was a very light impression-I finally viewed it from the right angle [not A right angle]

Your "mystery set" has the standard frontage but hidden depths [as said already]. Are any of the frequency ranges on the dial very different than usual? Are the scrawled notes anything to do with the mods I wonder? It's definitely derived from the AR88 but that grey paintwork [the bulk of AR88's here seem to be black] somehow reminded me of the AR77. That's fairly rare predecessor in this country as far as I can tell but not similar [as might be expected] either visually or technically.

Hi Dave,

The dial ranges seem to agree with the CR88A I have. Most of the "CR" type radios had the grey front panels.

I can't make any sense of the scribbles on the panel other then a few words. Somebody was doing some math on the front as well as on one of the side braces - odd.

Tom
W3TA

Originally Posted by turretslug

A 5600pF audio coupling capacitor is unusual, too- the "standard" fit seems to have been parallelled 4700pF units. Also, the audio output transformer only has 4 terminals, rather than the 7 of later variants. The front of the chassis is missing the big cut-out around mode switch and headphone socket usually seen. My hunch of an early basic chassis with later RF deck and panel is deepening....

Good observations - I'm leaning towards the early chassis theory myself

Tom

Originally Posted by PsychMan

I assume you have read everything on this site? : https://www.radioblvd.com/ar88.htm Do have a read if you haven't already.

I believe the "CR" models in general were post war (1945 on). The AR88LF became the CR91 as far as I remember, I have an AR88LF model which was made in 194 6and badged "AR88LF", but it does have characteristics of the CR91 in the front panel labelling. So perhaps there were some "in between" models. Plus yours has some modifications made by a particular service, Navy or Air service etc. There are some similar looking models on Henry's page referenced above.

Nice receiver
Adam

Hi Adam,

Yes I have been in email contact with Henry and he is somewhat stumped too. I have discussed other RCA radios I have in the past with Henry also - great source of info and very informative website.

Tom

[thoyer454]

Thank you all for the replies. Common consensus I've been getting is that nobody quite knows what this configuration is.

For now I'm going to continue doing some research before I dig into the radio to make it operational.

I am going to try to compile information as to front panel and real panel layouts vs models. There seem to be many variants..........

Regards,

Stay safe!

Tom
W3TA

[thoyer454]

I updated the web site with some AR88 pics and the Seymour letters - didn't scan well but the originals are intact......

www.thdesignsinc.com Scroll down to the radio section. Most everything listed there has been competed I just have been slacking getting the finished product pics up for some.

Tom
W3TA

[turretslug]

I notice that the original chassis punching for the pre-set phasing control appears to have witness marks, as if this component with its insulating shaft had been transferred to the IF screen switch support as part of its "CR" upgrade, also the RF stage screen-grid feed resistors are 47k rather than the 33k of the mainstream production. (Perhaps I should say were 47k, time may not have been kind to them!).

Thinking about it, the production upgrade from the two controls with middling-size knobs under the tuning control to three smaller knob controls in a triangle array doesn't involve any chassis alteration, as the flexi-drive to the operator-adjusted crystal phasing goes in the original AF gain control hole with AF gain pot now panel-mounted with short shaft. That would make for an easy upgrade for someone who wished to have front-panel crystal phasing. The question of changing an RF deck is more difficult to rationalise- could the original have had an unorthodox coverage spectrum with detail difference in mounting arrangement? The AR88 was widely available in the UK post-war (albeit still at a significant expense to the private buyer) as a result of Lend-Lease, maybe if it was a rarer find in its native US, it would have been worth putting considerable work into a cast-off by using NOS spares.

Also, the mains transformer has the typical -D variant supply tappings but most are unconnected and there is no rear-panel supply voltage selector. Possibly hinting at an earlier version before the WW2 requirement of a set that could be shipped anywhere in the world and quickly put into service without needing technician access to the inside to suit local supply.

[Radio Wrangler]

In the sixties, AR88D were selling for around £40 in the UK. One surplus dealer had a number of unused sets in crates and advertised them at about £80 which was astronomical to my eyes.

I was born and brought up in Yorkshire, but haven't heard of Seymour Communications before but back in those days there were many traders on the go so it's not surprising.

David

[thoyer454]

Originally Posted by turretslug

I notice that the original chassis punching for the pre-set phasing control appears to have witness marks, as if this component with its insulating shaft had been transferred to the IF screen switch support as part of its "CR" upgrade, also the RF stage screen-grid feed resistors are 47k rather than the 33k of the mainstream production. (Perhaps I should say were 47k, time may not have been kind to them!).

Thinking about it, the production upgrade from the two controls with middling-size knobs under the tuning control to three smaller knob controls in a triangle array doesn't involve any chassis alteration, as the flexi-drive to the operator-adjusted crystal phasing goes in the original AF gain control hole with AF gain pot now panel-mounted with short shaft. That would make for an easy upgrade for someone who wished to have front-panel crystal phasing. The question of changing an RF deck is more difficult to rationalise- could the original have had an unorthodox coverage spectrum with detail difference in mounting arrangement? The AR88 was widely available in the UK post-war (albeit still at a significant expense to the private buyer) as a result of Lend-Lease, maybe if it was a rarer find in its native US, it would have been worth putting considerable work into a cast-off by using NOS spares.

Also, the mains transformer has the typical -D variant supply tappings but most are unconnected and there is no rear-panel supply voltage selector. Possibly hinting at an earlier version before the WW2 requirement of a set that could be shipped anywhere in the world and quickly put into service without needing technician access to the inside to suit local supply.

Interesting points.

The four terminal audio xfmr is also an oddity. It uses a 6K6 for the audio output stage.

I pulled a couple tubes looking for some date codes. Nothing I could see - most are what appear to be early RCA tubes though. One interesting tube is the voltage regulator, it has a date code of 1939 and will not come out of its socket! I didn't want to apply too much force to remove it but I did give a few good wiggles and tugs from the base with no movement.

I'm beginning to wonder if this chassis is from an early AR88 and, as has been suggested, was made into what appears to be a CR88A at some time.

My quest now is for a picture of the rear panel from a very early AR88 to see if there are any similarities. Also a picture of the top chassis around the RF section, again looking for similarities.

Fun stuff trying to unearth the history of these radios.

Tom
W3TA

[Silicon]

Could this be the result of mating the RF deck of a Canadian AR88LF with the main chassis of an American AR88D? Would that explain the cutouts on the metalwork?

[turretslug]

The tuning scale shown corresponds with that of CR88 versions, the same coverage as the original AR88 and AR88D versions with MW broadcast but not the 'LF's 2x LF bands, also the 'D and 'LF front-end decks have substantially different frequency IF outputs into their respective main chassis (455 vs. 735kHz)- not insurmountable, but involving either a tedious change or severe alteration/re-tuning of a whole load of IFTs and change of narrow filter crystal, or the recalculation and substitution of a swathe of padders and re-alignment. Not beyond possibilty, but a load of work and headache!

[Silicon]

After looking at the frequency range on the front panel it would be more likely that the RF deck was from an AR88D.
Apparently the AR88 was produced at three different sites.

Does anyone know if the metalwork for the AR88D and AR88LF is exactly the same?

[thoyer454]

The more I study this chassis, the more little things I find. Today I noticed that all of the tube sockets are held in by spring clips and not the typical flange held by screws to the chassis. There are no holes in the chassis for tube socket screws either so it was made for mounting the sockets in this manner.

There is one wire in the harness that is cut at the audio terminal strip and the other end near the audio transformer. The lacing cord is intact in both areas so this wire was in there from original and probably cut as part of a mod or configuration change. You can see the one cut end in between the two wires connecting the audio xfmr in the last picture on my site. https://www.thdesignsinc.com/rca_CR88.html

So I think we can safely assume that the chassis and RF deck did not leave the factory as mates.

Keep in mind also that I live within 30 minutes of Camden NJ where RCA was headquartered. This radio was local to me when I bought it. The seller was the son-in-law of the owner who passed and they found this cleaning his house out.

I'm going to reach out to the seller to see if the father in law had any connections with RCA.

Tom