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Old 15th Aug 2018, 10:44 pm   #61
crackle
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

Hi Graham
Excellent, that's what it is all about, sharing, helping, preserving, promoting the hobby, giving something back, getting involved.

Going back to the subject of copyright on service manuals, I have been told that you cant scan or photograph a published work or document and then claim copyright on the result. However reusing and presenting a scanned document as your own work by removing the creators markings is an ungentlemanly thing to do. Re-sharing with out charging for it and leaving the original creators markings on the scanned image is fine in my eyes.
I have marked all of my original scans and freely available service manuals on the KB Museum website simply to try and identify where they originated from, for instance they are not marked Copyright KB Museum, just simply kbmuseum.org.uk.
However my first attempt at doing this was easily removed, as I found out when I came across some of my original scanned documents on a Dutch radio site with my kbmuseum markings removed and their own put in their place, as if they had originated the scans.
Is imitation really the best form of flattery, I dont know but I felt rather miffed with the Dutch site and I told them so. The documents now have a marking crediting where they came from.

Original photos of your own radios are a different matter though, you do have a right to claim copyright on them, and it is this that RM are respecting for their members.

Mike

Last edited by crackle; 15th Aug 2018 at 11:04 pm.
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Old 15th Aug 2018, 10:59 pm   #62
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobaltblue View Post
... Show me the giving of original content not just linked to someone else ...
I already mentioned Pete Millett and HiFi Engine. Off the top of my head, and with apologies to everyone I've not mentioned:

http://www.keith-snook.info/quad-stuff.html
http://www.44bx.com/leak/
http://www.radfordrevival.co.uk/
http://www.lowthervoigtmuseum.org.uk/
http://www.rgd.org.uk/rgdonlinemuseum.htm
http://www.pamphonic.co.uk/index.html
https://frank.pocnet.net/
https://www.americanradiohistory.com...d_Magazine.htm
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Lou...ts.htm#Vintage
https://www.markhennessy.co.uk/hifi.htm

I absolutely take my hat off to you and Mike E for the work you've put into your sites. I'm aware that there's this one too www.murphy-radio.co.uk although I'm afraid I don't know the owner (at least I don't think I do ) so I can't vouch for it.

But in a sense that's my whole point. I can really, really easily show you the giving of original content. It's the way lots and lots of people work. Not least you Mike !

Cheers,

GJ
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Last edited by GrimJosef; 15th Aug 2018 at 11:24 pm.
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 12:52 am   #63
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

I do like rm.org overall, and did some (admittedly roughly, though correspondence with the original author throughout ended up enhancing the original German article and enabling someone else to translate into French) translation of an article on the "red valves" a long time ago.
But my attempt to upload a scan of a circuit diagram was rejected because it didn't meet their high technical standards and I was kindly sent instructions on how to do better using Irfanview, but I never could get it to work satisfactorily, so gave up.
Sorry!
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 5:04 am   #64
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

My experience with offering stuff to the Radiomuseum has not been pleasant.

Some time ago I bought a fairly obscure Philips portable transistor radio. It is shown on the RM site, but there is no circuit diagram. But my set had the original circuit folded up and tucked inside. I scanned it for my own reference and offered the scan to RM. It's not the best quality (as the original was somewhat creased from being folded) but it is readable, and is surely a lot better than nothing. But RM didn't even bother to reply to me.

As a result of what I consider to be very rude behaviour, I will not offer anything to RM again. There is an item, not a radio, on the RM site that I consider to be of considerable historical significance and for which I can find no photos anywhere on the internet. I have photos of it, but no way am I offering them to RM.

And I object to this view of 'takers'/'freeloaders'. Many people have a variety of hobbies, some of which they put more time in than others. In my case, relating to the subjects of this forum, classic computing come top (and RM doesn't cover that at all, which is reasonable), then recording devices (tape and wire recorders, etc), and then radio receivers. So it is unlikely that I am going to have much to contribute on the last of those. But a quick web search will find over 100 reverse-engineered circuit diagrams that I have produced for computer-related items. I don't know how many 10's of thousands of hours I spent on them, but it's a lot. For which I get (and expect to get) absolutely nothing in return. So not a contribution to RM per se, but certainly a contribution to old-technology-repairing.
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 5:55 am   #65
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDuell View Post
Some time ago I bought a fairly obscure Philips portable transistor radio. It is shown on the RM site, but there is no circuit diagram. But my set had the original circuit folded up and tucked inside. I scanned it for my own reference and offered the scan to RM. It's not the best quality (as the original was somewhat creased from being folded) but it is readable, and is surely a lot better than nothing. But RM didn't even bother to reply to me.
I dont know what happened there Tony, I can only apologise, I hope it was before I was heavily involved with RM. I have to admit that even I, in the early days, found it difficult to communicate with RM. The differences in language etiquette can sometimes make communications seem rather prickly, but I dont think it is intended. But there is no excuse for ignoring an offer from someone, even if it is a polite no thanks.
But if you could be kind enough to send it to me I will ensure it is put on the relevant Philips model.
I will PM my email address for you to use if you wish.
Thanks
Mike

Last edited by crackle; 16th Aug 2018 at 6:02 am.
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 6:05 am   #66
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

Quote:
Originally Posted by G8UWM-MildMartin View Post
I do like rm.org overall, and did some (admittedly roughly, though correspondence with the original author throughout ended up enhancing the original German article and enabling someone else to translate into French) translation of an article on the "red valves" a long time ago.
But my attempt to upload a scan of a circuit diagram was rejected because it didn't meet their high technical standards and I was kindly sent instructions on how to do better using Irfanview, but I never could get it to work satisfactorily, so gave up.
Sorry!
Hi Martin
Sorry it did not work out with your offer of a circuit.
I am keen to promote the Radio Museum, as I hope you are now aware. I have heard many stories of problems in the past with peoples experience of the very structured and complex website, and language barriers dont help.
If you still have the scan I could perhaps have a look at it to see if I could improve the image or at least give some detailed advice.
let me know and I will PM my email details to you.

Mike

Last edited by crackle; 16th Aug 2018 at 6:12 am.
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 8:01 am   #67
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

I have been a member of Radio Museum for several years.
I have put details of some sets from my collection onto the site if they were not there already.
I log in from different computers and just delete the one I am not using when log in gets confused.
It is a useful reference site and I hope it continues.

John
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 11:15 am   #68
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

Even without the facility to download service information RM would still be a valuable resource, particularly when it comes to identifying radios where say the back panel is missing.

At the time I joined RM free downloads weren't available so I had to join in order to obtain some service info which wasn't available elsewhere.

There were two options for joining. Pay a fee or:-

Quote:
adding either 19 collector prices or 12 new models or 12 pictures of his/her own (or 19 others) or completing / enhancing 19 fields for models or uploading 4 schematics.
A that time there was very little I could contribute. I certainly didn't have information on 12 new models. I chose to pay the fee.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 8:58 am   #69
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

I thought I would add here some links to the Antique Radio Forum based in the US, where they too had been discussing the Radio Museum. They are both fairly old threads but still very relevant today, things have moved on and improved as RM continues to improve.
The first link is to a thread posted in 2012 by John Kusching who is now one of the RM "Officers", a lot has changed since.
It explains in good detail a visit he made to Ernst's home in Lucerne, Switzerland, and covers the history and workings of the Radio Museum.
If you are interested in RM then it is an interesting read.
http://antiqueradios.com/forums/view...p?f=2&t=200849

The second link is to another thread by John Kusching, made in 2013 where he has posted a presentation on the Radio Museum, giving information on its many features already available at that time.
http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/...p?f=2&t=226083

I hope these will help show the Radio Museum in a positive light and encourage you to join in, contributing whatever you can, to help build data held in the museum up and fill in the gaps.

Mike
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 12:55 pm   #70
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

Mike, these are great links to some most excellent and helpful information - particularly the Powerpoint guide to the use of the site.

Personally, I've found this discussion very constructive. It's certainly encouraging me to spend more time mastering the RM site and its rules of operation and finding stuff to upload.

The photo of Ernst with John Kusching even helps to humanise the whole experience!

Martin
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 4:35 pm   #71
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

Encouraged indeed, I have this week applied and been granted membership of RM. On the free basis too, though I feel I should contribute something in coin.

Now I will get organised and upload some items, not all 'new' stuff to the museum but hopefully of some value.
Its a wonderful resource for radio and other appliance collectors.

If folk think RM is not easy, try Electrotanya! If you go away for 6 months you are deleted!
Sam.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 6:02 pm   #72
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

I joined about a week ago (before this thread was started). I am encouraged to make a start uploading my small but growing collection. It seems the ideal place to share my bits and pieces with others, not having or wanting my own website. I'm sure once I have got my head around the process it will become straightforward. Unfortunately I have to go on holiday so it will be September before I can make a start!
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 6:26 pm   #73
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

I am sure you will find it rewarding to share your collection with your friends. Your own web pages showing your personal collection "My Model Collection" can be accessed via "My Control Panel" in the top left corner of the main page.

cheers
Mike
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Old 18th Aug 2018, 1:19 am   #74
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobaltblue View Post
RM is not really interested in people joining paying a fee and thinking that's it we have access can download whatever we want.
RM is about promoting our hobby and expanding the database providing a service to everyone interested in our hobby.
I don't see those two statements as being necessarily mutually exclusive - which is the way I understand them. "Promoting our hobby and providing a service to everyone interested in our hobby" surely includes "people having access and downloading whatever they want". If a necessary requirement for that service is an initial fee to be paid, with the user-option of uploading files & data, so be it. The requirements of both statements are thus met.

Al.
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Old 18th Aug 2018, 6:41 am   #75
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boater Sam View Post
If folk think RM is not easy, try Electrotanya! If you go away for 6 months you are deleted!
I use Electotrotanya regularly and have never needed to register, their two manuals per day without registering meets my needs. Sometimes slow before the 'get document' button shows but it works.

Now that they allow free downloads I may use Radiomuseum next time I need something not on Paul's DVD. I just have to conquer the Google Captcha which will probably be the only hard bit...

I see by the way it says '3 documents per day' then 'each page is sent by email'. Do you get multiple emails for multi page manuals and does each separate page count towards your limit?
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Old 18th Aug 2018, 6:46 am   #76
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

I didn't really want to keep arguing points and disagreeing with what has been said on here. But I think Mike's statement may have been misunderstood.
Quote;
"RM is not really interested in people joining paying a fee and thinking that's it we have access can download whatever we want."
I believe the clue is in the bit I have italicised, it is NOT IT, IT IS THE START.

RM would obviously like people to pay to join, (it helps relieve the massive financial burden that Ernst has borne in the past. But they realise that some people find paying more difficult than others. Offering the free option to join was a good idea to allow everyone to become involved.
Mike

Last edited by crackle; 18th Aug 2018 at 7:05 am.
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Old 18th Aug 2018, 6:52 am   #77
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsergeant View Post
I see by the way it says '3 documents per day' then 'each page is sent by email'. Do you get multiple emails for multi page manuals and does each separate page count towards your limit?
In answer to this, as each page of a service manual is a separate document I believe each will be sent separately, and each will be counted to your 3 page limit. So it is best to scan through the thumbnails and choose the pages you really want first. Other less important pages can be downloaded the next day.

But why not join, upload a few photos and have completely free unlimited access by just uploading the occasional photo of a radio you have in your collection.

Mike
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Old 18th Aug 2018, 7:06 am   #78
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

So there is part of the problem some pay the fee then discover that they soon burn through the access that gives. They have neither the inclination in some cases or source material in others to restore their access. Some feel aggrieved and didn't realise that if you're logged in every page visited counts against your UACS.

That's not a good situation for either party .

The only way to get virtually unlimited access is to contribute and that's what RM is set up to reward.
.

Getting free access which I am pleased some more members have achieved shows the right commitment from the word go. I don't see the point of paying the fee then doing the very thing that would get you free access in the first place unless of course you want to help with RM's running costs which is indeed a desirable outcome.

I accept some need access for a one off event and feel happy to pay the fee but that doesn't benefit RM much in the long term although it does offset a part of its running costs.

Cheers Mike T
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Old 18th Aug 2018, 8:55 am   #79
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

Quote:
Originally Posted by crackle View Post
I am sure you will find it rewarding to share your collection with your friends. Your own web pages showing your personal collection "My Model Collection" can be accessed via "My Control Panel" in the top left corner of the main page.
Thanks Mike
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Old 18th Aug 2018, 10:09 am   #80
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Default Re: re Radiomuseum downloads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobaltblue View Post
... RM is about promoting our hobby and expanding the database providing a service to everyone interested in our hobby ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobaltblue View Post
... If you are a serious collector do it from the inside of RM ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobaltblue View Post
... If your a serious collector surely you must have something! ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobaltblue View Post
So there is part of the problem some pay the fee then discover that they soon burn through the access that gives. They have neither the inclination in some cases or source material in others to restore their access ... The only way to get virtually unlimited access is to contribute and that's what RM is set up to reward ...
I think my misunderstanding came from the first post. The other three clarify the situation.

Cheers,

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