UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc)

Notices

Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 19th Feb 2019, 9:50 pm   #21
AD360 Rob
Hexode
 
AD360 Rob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Chester, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 420
Default Re: Ultra 6020

I had similar sound issues with an HMV version of this player, very noisy amplifier with occasional pops. It turned out to be the biasing potentiometers. I marked their positions, gave a brief squirt of switch cleaner, moved them back and forth a few times and then reset to the marks. Noise and popping gone, amp quiet. Obviously I set up the biasing correctly later. https://youtu.be/pBPk3CU1Crs
AD360 Rob is online now  
Old 19th Feb 2019, 10:00 pm   #22
BUSHVHF
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 71
Default Re: Ultra 6020

Hi, that would be great, I dont know Sam actually at all, I only mailed him after the guy sent his details on here. I am away on thursday but I could bring it next time I am over,
I am back on the 27th, I do have a dynatron radiogram also, so not desperate for a record player, my plan was to take this Ultra one to family in The Netherlands where I go alot, but I cant take it in this condition. so there is no rush really, but you can see from the photos that it is a nice set and I would like to have it working properly, I am coming from city centre Mcr and I have google mapped it from here and its alot shorter on the A roads through stockport and wilmslow, (unless there are any HORROR places on the A roads I would avoid the M6 - I went somewhere near buxton on the A roads lst year and it was HORRENDOUS near Mottram I think it was, with these horrendous long tail backs because of road works last year, it took literally HOURs when I could have driven 8 miles further on the motorway and avoided all that. thanks. laurence
BUSHVHF is offline  
Old 19th Feb 2019, 10:18 pm   #23
BUSHVHF
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 71
Default Re: Ultra 6020

Actually I have posted the vid of the very HISSY amp to my youtuve channel, you can hear it here:-
https://youtu.be/V9Z8qZypvyk
I dont think this is the same problem as the guy, Rob with the Ferguson record player,
you can see its only the volume knob that increases this hissing, and it almost goes off at full volume, I did make a vid with it playing a record with good Hi-Energy 80s disco bass & treble response and the amp plays it really well BUT with the terrible hissing in the background. thanks
BUSHVHF is offline  
Old 19th Feb 2019, 10:34 pm   #24
BUSHVHF
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 71
Default Re: Ultra 6020

this is the Ultra 6020 playing a Hi-Energy record good for showing the bass/treble response but there is still the hissing sound in the background, and at the end of the record, though with the mic on my camera and with volume at normal level it isnt so apparent (but in reality it really HISSES quite loudly) thanks Bushvhf
https://youtu.be/D2Q6l9k50pM

Last edited by BUSHVHF; 19th Feb 2019 at 10:34 pm. Reason: spelling mistakes
BUSHVHF is offline  
Old 20th Feb 2019, 12:11 am   #25
ekjdm14
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Congleton, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 609
Default Re: Ultra 6020

Hi sorry not got much time to post as have to get the kids in bed (bit late, I got engrossed in playing with a tape deck!) but if Sam isn't able to deal with it for a while then I'm certainly willing to take a look into it. I'll PM you our address in the morning if that suits?

Cheers.
ekjdm14 is offline  
Old 20th Feb 2019, 10:20 am   #26
BUSHVHF
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 71
Default Re: Ultra 6020

OK thats fine! no rush, I am off on thursday till the 27th then back in UK only for about 8 days so I could bring it during that time, thanks
BUSHVHF is offline  
Old 20th Feb 2019, 2:39 pm   #27
ekjdm14
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Congleton, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 609
Default Re: Ultra 6020

Cool, PM sent cheers.
ekjdm14 is offline  
Old 20th Feb 2019, 5:17 pm   #28
BUSHVHF
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 71
Default Re: Ultra 6020

thanks Dan, have PM'd you too, I have found that this Ultra 6020 is the same as a Ferguson and a HMV player, it says:
This is the original SERVICE manual for the HMV 2028 ferguson 3022 and ultra 6020 record players SERVICE MANUAL
Details - Complete original hard copy vintage manual
The HMV 2028 looks EXACTLY the same as my ultra except for the front grille and logo, same BSR deck. thanks
BUSHVHF is offline  
Old 20th Feb 2019, 7:09 pm   #29
ekjdm14
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Congleton, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 609
Default Re: Ultra 6020

Hi, have replied to pm. I have found a schematic for the Ferguson 3022/HMV2038 and Ultra 6022 which may be similar.

As I mentioned though it's not likely to be the most complicated of circuits so if an exact schematic isn't available I could likely work it out by following the traces and noting component values. Not a whole lot to lose if the other option is a Chinese replacement amplifier, but I have to admit I feel hopeful. If the transistors are the same as the schematic I have then they seem to be available around £2-3 each at a quick glance and, some of these at least, appear to be silicon equivalents (BC107 driver for example). If it is the transistors at fault then it may even be possible to clear them using techniques I have read on here.
ekjdm14 is offline  
Old 20th Feb 2019, 7:32 pm   #30
AD360 Rob
Hexode
 
AD360 Rob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Chester, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 420
Default Re: Ultra 6020

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHVHF View Post
Actually I have posted the vid of the very HISSY amp to my youtuve channel, you can hear it here:-
https://youtu.be/V9Z8qZypvyk
I dont think this is the same problem as the guy, Rob with the Ferguson record player,
you can see its only the volume knob that increases this hissing, and it almost goes off at full volume, I did make a vid with it playing a record with good Hi-Energy 80s disco bass & treble response and the amp plays it really well BUT with the terrible hissing in the background. thanks
You're right, the noise on mine was not volume control dependant.
AD360 Rob is online now  
Old 20th Feb 2019, 8:18 pm   #31
BUSHVHF
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 71
Default Re: Ultra 6020

OK, I think this is something entirely different, it would seem that the germanium transistors do seem to be most likely culprit, such a shame on such a nice looking player.
BUSHVHF is offline  
Old 20th Feb 2019, 8:39 pm   #32
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
Default Re: Ultra 6020

The preamp transistor before the volume control looks like a silicon job in the photo's.

Lawrence.
ms660 is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2019, 11:41 am   #33
BUSHVHF
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 71
Default Re: Ultra 6020

Oh! is that better than a germanium transistor and more easily replacable?
BUSHVHF is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2019, 11:46 am   #34
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
Default Re: Ultra 6020

Yes, silicon makes things easier.

Lawrence.
ms660 is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2019, 1:11 pm   #35
ekjdm14
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Congleton, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 609
Default Re: Ultra 6020

You could be right, if my eyes are focussing on the photo properly there looks like 2 silicons toward the front of the board just leaving 3 germaniums attached to the heatsink at the back yes?

The silicon ones are unlikely to be a problem I think, and I have had a thought re checking for whiskers seeing as the amp is just noisy and not dead. If I were to remove the heatsink and leave the germanium cans "floating" then run the amp briefly that would hopefully give an indication since I'd have thought the noise would reduce or go away with the cans floating (or at least it should change).

Also if this idea worked, I could then ground each can and see what effect it had in order to chase down the likely suspect.

Having said all this, aside from whether my ideas are valid I'd appreciate thoughts on whether it's likely to be more sensible in the long run to replace all the germaniums, whether they are the cause of the problem or not. There does seem to be replacements readily available, assuming the transistors as as-per my schematic then I can find a silicon equivalent BC107, a "brand new" germanium AC128 and "brand new" AC176 for around £10 all in (this is just a quick preliminary search, obviously will have to confirm actual numbers when I look at the amp).

Are the "new" germaniums likely to be of recent manufacture or unused old stock? (FWIW the photos did look recent).
ekjdm14 is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2019, 1:22 pm   #36
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
Default Re: Ultra 6020

Looking at the pics it looks to me like germanium output pair with germanium bias diode, silicon driver, germanium amp, silicon preamp, the latter being before the volume control.

Lawrence.
ms660 is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2019, 1:39 pm   #37
ekjdm14
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Congleton, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 609
Default Re: Ultra 6020

Excellent, the chances of the silicons being faulty (at least, being faulty with the thing still able to output sound) is likely to be negligible then.

I think I'll wait until I have the amp in front of me before thinking too much further on it in case it differs from my schematic (6022 not 6020), although it's looking largely similar so far I don't want to get led astray by assuming it will be the same.

So far though I would have to say I'm feeling positive about a repair, and making it "future proof" too.
ekjdm14 is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2019, 8:16 pm   #38
BUSHVHF
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 71
Default Re: Ultra 6020

this sounds great! I hope it will work "hiss" free, as I said the sound is quite good otherwise, (see my vids on my youtube channel) and the "bassy" sound and the treble is quite good on that 80s hi energy record, such a shame this happens with these transistor amps, I had no idea this could happen, I thought it was only valve amps that caused trouble.
BUSHVHF is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2019, 8:29 pm   #39
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
Default Re: Ultra 6020

It could also be a resistor or preset that's causing that symptom, whicheverways I think I can spot some Callins type electrolytics in there, they're usually candidates for replacement.

Lawrence.
ms660 is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2019, 8:50 pm   #40
BUSHVHF
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 71
Default Re: Ultra 6020

I think those three germanium ones at the back flange of the aluminium frame are just held in place against the aluminium panel with that black plastic rounded edge bracket that clamps them to the alu edge, as a sort of heatsink, Im not sure if the "legs" of the transistors just poke through the bottom of the cirucit board and are soldered in on the underside, Laurence BUSHVHF
BUSHVHF is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:20 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.