Upscaling converter with HDMI output? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

G6Tanuki · 17th Dec 2014, 8:44 pm

Wanting to run some legacy VHS video-recordings [PAL and NTSC] through a current-production digital projector that has HDMI and old-style VGA inputs - what's the quickest/easiest way to do this?

My instinct says to digitize the legacy analog video-stream via a suitable PC card and then use something like an XBMC media-server to upscale/de-interlace the results and push it on to the projector.

Nickthedentist · 17th Dec 2014, 10:05 pm

Put it onto a DVD using normal domestic equipment (e.g. one of those combo DVD recorders/VHS players) then play the DVD on a laptop with the appropriate output?

paulsherwin · 17th Dec 2014, 10:19 pm

Yes, using a domestic DVD recorder is the simplest approach. You could then use an upscaling DVD player to produce the HDMI feed - no computers required. I'm not sure if this would be straightforward with a mixture of PAL and NTSC though.

G6Tanuki · 18th Dec 2014, 10:34 am

I hadn't thought of using a separate DVD-player; the reason I want to use a computer is that there's already a rather good one connected to the digital projector (it's used to give Powerpoint presentations and training courses).

Rather than using a DVD I'll probably capture/de-interlace the files on to a 64Gb USB memory-stick for convenience, along with an Ubuntu Live installation so I know I've got the right codecs etc. with me. Somewhere I've got a PC card with a yellow 'video' input socket that I should be able to hook to an old VHS player to do the capture. Time I think for some experiments!

Nicklyons2 · 18th Dec 2014, 10:45 am

The later Panasonic DVD/HDD recorders have HDMI outputs so you can feed the composite video in - record on the HDD - edit the bad bits out - and the, either play the edited version off the HDD or burn a DVD for use elsewhere, and play out as HDMI. This method has the advantage that with a very poor tape what I do is run it say 3 times and record each pass to the HDD and then edit 'around the drop outs etc, combining the 3 passes into 1 fairly glitch free end result

G6Tanuki · 18th Dec 2014, 10:56 am

Thing is, I've got the computers and suchlike but don't have any kind of standalone DVD-recording appliance - nor do I actually have a VHS player (will have to borrow one).

I reckon I can do a better editing job using VLC on the computer.

Lucien Nunes · 18th Dec 2014, 7:19 pm

The problem with going via DVD is it makes mincemeat of the incoming signal, wasting part of its meagre bitrate encoding tape noise. An HDD machine using at least a DV25-grade codec would do a better job.

If you don't need to capture and edit, and are happy to play straight into the projector, it's worth double-checking that it won't accept composite. Very few that accept RGB or YPrPb won't, the green input serving alternatively for Y or CVBS according to the mode selected.

In that case you are at the mercy of its scaling / de-interlacing performance, but you might avoid a double-conversion that would occur e.g. if you captured PAL 576 to 1080 and the proj then converted it again to the panel resolution if it were say WUXGA rather than HD. Typically on-board conversion of SD is at least reasonable on all the popular projectors I see on my travels.

The cheapest standalone converters run to some hundreds of pounds. I use various brands regularly (e.g. Kramer, BMD, Redbyte) and most have decent performance. A very versatile tool for this sort of thing, if you can borrow one, is the AJA IoHD. It has been my benchmark for a long time but increasingly dated now.

G6Tanuki · 18th Dec 2014, 8:09 pm

The projector only has HDMI or VGA inputs; I don't really want to go messing around with it and in doing so screw it up for the presentation-that-follows-mine. Being able to play the captured video back from a USB stick is the quickest/easiest way [thats how everyone else will be doing their things].

My current plan is to capture the composite video to my PC's HDD then play around with VLC to do any image-reconditioning and grabbing the particular bits of the video I want for the presentation (it's a corporate video from the early-1980s showing the opening of the company's new plant by a rather-well-known politician of the era) then I can export the video as .AVI samples which I know the existing PC/projector will handle.

G6Tanuki · 22nd Dec 2014, 6:57 pm

Just to let you know - I achieved what I needed to.

Ran old VHS tape through a borrowed VHS player; took the comp-video-and-stereo-audio output into a USB dongle plugged into my laptop and used "VLC" to capture it.

Ten minutes of VHS video produced a raw capture-file of about 450Mbytes which I then tweaked and edited and adjusted the contrast to give 7 minutes of relevant video.

Exported as a .avi it came down to about 75Mbytes, which I then embedded in the rest of the Powerpoint presentation then dropped it all onto a USB stick.

So, my work-colleague who has today taken early-retirement got to watch himself shaking hands with Michael Heseltine (his local MP back in the early-1980s) when opening a new engineering facility. Apparently he'd never seen it before!

17th Dec 2014, 8:44 pm	#1
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 13,998	Upscaling converter with HDMI output? Wanting to run some legacy VHS video-recordings [PAL and NTSC] through a current-production digital projector that has HDMI and old-style VGA inputs - what's the quickest/easiest way to do this? My instinct says to digitize the legacy analog video-stream via a suitable PC card and then use something like an XBMC media-server to upscale/de-interlace the results and push it on to the projector.

17th Dec 2014, 10:05 pm	#2
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,846	Re: Upscaling converter with HDMI output? Put it onto a DVD using normal domestic equipment (e.g. one of those combo DVD recorders/VHS players) then play the DVD on a laptop with the appropriate output?

17th Dec 2014, 10:19 pm	#3
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,944	Re: Upscaling converter with HDMI output? Yes, using a domestic DVD recorder is the simplest approach. You could then use an upscaling DVD player to produce the HDMI feed - no computers required. I'm not sure if this would be straightforward with a mixture of PAL and NTSC though.

18th Dec 2014, 10:34 am	#4
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 13,998	Re: Upscaling converter with HDMI output? I hadn't thought of using a separate DVD-player; the reason I want to use a computer is that there's already a rather good one connected to the digital projector (it's used to give Powerpoint presentations and training courses). Rather than using a DVD I'll probably capture/de-interlace the files on to a 64Gb USB memory-stick for convenience, along with an Ubuntu Live installation so I know I've got the right codecs etc. with me. Somewhere I've got a PC card with a yellow 'video' input socket that I should be able to hook to an old VHS player to do the capture. Time I think for some experiments!

18th Dec 2014, 10:45 am	#5
Nicklyons2 Octode Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,517	Re: Upscaling converter with HDMI output? The later Panasonic DVD/HDD recorders have HDMI outputs so you can feed the composite video in - record on the HDD - edit the bad bits out - and the, either play the edited version off the HDD or burn a DVD for use elsewhere, and play out as HDMI. This method has the advantage that with a very poor tape what I do is run it say 3 times and record each pass to the HDD and then edit 'around the drop outs etc, combining the 3 passes into 1 fairly glitch free end result

18th Dec 2014, 10:56 am	#6
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 13,998	Re: Upscaling converter with HDMI output? Thing is, I've got the computers and suchlike but don't have any kind of standalone DVD-recording appliance - nor do I actually have a VHS player (will have to borrow one). I reckon I can do a better editing job using VLC on the computer.

18th Dec 2014, 7:19 pm	#7
Lucien Nunes Rest in Peace Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: London, UK. Posts: 2,508	Re: Upscaling converter with HDMI output? The problem with going via DVD is it makes mincemeat of the incoming signal, wasting part of its meagre bitrate encoding tape noise. An HDD machine using at least a DV25-grade codec would do a better job. If you don't need to capture and edit, and are happy to play straight into the projector, it's worth double-checking that it won't accept composite. Very few that accept RGB or YPrPb won't, the green input serving alternatively for Y or CVBS according to the mode selected. In that case you are at the mercy of its scaling / de-interlacing performance, but you might avoid a double-conversion that would occur e.g. if you captured PAL 576 to 1080 and the proj then converted it again to the panel resolution if it were say WUXGA rather than HD. Typically on-board conversion of SD is at least reasonable on all the popular projectors I see on my travels. The cheapest standalone converters run to some hundreds of pounds. I use various brands regularly (e.g. Kramer, BMD, Redbyte) and most have decent performance. A very versatile tool for this sort of thing, if you can borrow one, is the AJA IoHD. It has been my benchmark for a long time but increasingly dated now.

18th Dec 2014, 8:09 pm	#8
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 13,998	Re: Upscaling converter with HDMI output? The projector only has HDMI or VGA inputs; I don't really want to go messing around with it and in doing so screw it up for the presentation-that-follows-mine. Being able to play the captured video back from a USB stick is the quickest/easiest way [thats how everyone else will be doing their things]. My current plan is to capture the composite video to my PC's HDD then play around with VLC to do any image-reconditioning and grabbing the particular bits of the video I want for the presentation (it's a corporate video from the early-1980s showing the opening of the company's new plant by a rather-well-known politician of the era) then I can export the video as .AVI samples which I know the existing PC/projector will handle.

22nd Dec 2014, 6:57 pm	#9
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 13,998	Re: Upscaling converter with HDMI output? Just to let you know - I achieved what I needed to. Ran old VHS tape through a borrowed VHS player; took the comp-video-and-stereo-audio output into a USB dongle plugged into my laptop and used "VLC" to capture it. Ten minutes of VHS video produced a raw capture-file of about 450Mbytes which I then tweaked and edited and adjusted the contrast to give 7 minutes of relevant video. Exported as a .avi it came down to about 75Mbytes, which I then embedded in the rest of the Powerpoint presentation then dropped it all onto a USB stick. So, my work-colleague who has today taken early-retirement got to watch himself shaking hands with Michael Heseltine (his local MP back in the early-1980s) when opening a new engineering facility. Apparently he'd never seen it before!