Thin AA batteries - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Goldieoldie · 28th Nov 2018, 9:33 pm

Hi
I have some vintage transistor radios which use tubes to hold the AA batteries. Modern AA batteries seem to be a larger diameter than the originals so are a tight fit or don't fit at all!
Does anyone know of a modern battery which is nearer to the original diameter please? Other batteries such as C and D types are also of interest.

Cheers, Pete.

'LIVEWIRE?' · 28th Nov 2018, 10:51 pm

IIRC, the small cylindrical cells made in the 1960s weren't AA, but a different type number, which escapes me at the moment. Their diameter may well have been smaller than that of AA Batteries. Perhaps other members remember the type no. of 60's 1.5V cells, and when the AA's were introduced. 'D' cells were originally, at least in the U.K., called U2, but I don't remember the other types in use at that time.

Dave757 · 28th Nov 2018, 11:02 pm

Hi,

Weren't they called HP7s?

Kind regards
Dave

crackle · 28th Nov 2018, 11:03 pm

It may be the tubes have shrunk, a lot of plastics shrink with age.

Mike

Goldieoldie · 29th Nov 2018, 12:32 am

Yes I think you are right,they might well of shrunk. I've ordered some of those AAA to AA converters. With any luck they might be a slightly smaller diameter. If not I'll try and reduce the diameter by sanding down.

Andrew2 · 29th Nov 2018, 2:13 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave757

Hi,

Weren't they called HP7s?

Kind regards
Dave

I think the HP7 number arrived in the 70's. Before that they were generally just called 'penlight batteries', perhaps U12 but my memory has given up! Modern AA's certainly seem a fraction fatter than the old ones.

broadgage · 29th Nov 2018, 5:47 am

The cells now known as AA have, over the years been known by various other terms, but AFAIK have always had the same nominal dimensions.

Any change in size would have resulted in considerable adverse publicity regarding new cells not fitting existing equipment.

TonyDuell · 29th Nov 2018, 6:12 am

IIRC the original Penlight Battery was a 3V thing containing 2 of what we now call AA cells in line (A bit like the slightly more common No 8 battery). I am sure the instructions to one of my devices (maybe a Pifco 'Radiometer' test meter) says to use 'half a penlight battery'. An AA cell fits fine.

I remember buying AA cells as 'U12' in the blue wrapping. But also as SP7 and HP7 (one of the few times that the number was not kept the same, U2 was the same size as SP2 and HP2). And I think I saw them labelled D14 too.

The old Ever Ready equivalents of the modern cell sizes seem to be :

D : U2, SP2, HP2
C : U11, SP11, HP11
AA : U12, SP7, HP7
AAA : U16
N : D23

brenellic2000 · 29th Nov 2018, 8:41 am

I raised this problem over AA batteries in photographic equipment with Ray-O-Vac many years ago: Are these Japanese or UK/USA battery holders?

The Americans/British tended to aim for the larger production tolerance while the Japanese aimed at the smaller thus saving them millions in Yen in material costs thereby increasing profit margins! Simples!

KeithsTV · 29th Nov 2018, 9:25 am

I posted a 1966 article from Practical Electronics back in 2007 which had the dimensions, and other information, for various batteries of the time.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=20800

It would be interesting to compare those dimensions with the dimensions of current batteries.

Keith

D.Finney · 30th Nov 2018, 11:30 am

Penlight/keyring torch batteries were a lot smaller.

Herald1360 · 30th Nov 2018, 3:48 pm

Originally penlight batteries were 2*AA. AAA came along later and enabled more penlike penlights

A very effective penlight can now be made of course using 3*AAA and a high brightness white LED. Add a decent joule-thief circuit for an even more convincing one with just 2*AAA cells.

johntech · 30th Nov 2018, 11:46 pm

I think the original "penlight batteries" only had a paper sleeve (not leakproof) the modern batteries have a steel outer which is supposedly leak proof hence the diameter difference.

Mike. Watterson · 1st Dec 2018, 6:46 pm

AA have been same size for over 100 years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johntech

I think the original "penlight batteries" only had a paper sleeve (not leakproof) the modern batteries have a steel outer which is supposedly leak proof hence the diameter difference.

No, Zinc Carbon and Zinc Chloride have a Zinc case which is the negative and consumed. The card was replaced with plastic, a plastic disc on top and metal disc on the bottom and the result called "Leakproof", they just leaked less. Top connects to a central carbon electrode.

"Alkaline" batteries have a different metal electrode, which is positive. The metal disc at the base has the seal and the negative electrode is in the middle and consumed. They can leak if poorly made. Store upside down! Too much spring pressure breaks base seal and then they leak. Also tend to have a thin plastic film on the casing, which if pierced by a metal holder shorts the cell as case is positive.

The Penlight or AA cell came out about 1914, for fountain pen sized torches taking two cells. Popular with soldiers. The USA NEDA called them AA cells from 1945 or 1947. There WAS an A cell. The B cell is inside the three cell 4.5V pack (radios on the continent took two and rear cycle lamp took one). The Grid packs and HT packs used the B cells.
C and D still sold.
E went out of use long ago. Some bell batteries and radio LT packs used them.
F cells are in the 996 6V pack. One LT pack used four in parallel. The front cycle lamp 3V, used two, a spring on one case to bulb and one on top to switch.

Goldieoldie · 1st Dec 2018, 9:58 pm

I have received the AAA to AA converters and they are thinner !
The average diameter of a Alkaline AA is 14 mm
The diameter of these converters is 13.7 mm although where they snap in half is slightly bigger.A quick rub down with sandpaper sorts that
Not much thinner but they now fit my radios
Hopefully this info useful to others .They cost £2.40 for 4 btw on EBay

crackle · 1st Dec 2018, 10:38 pm

I would have found myself some thin clear plastic sheet, wrapped it loosely around a couple of batteries and glued it down with superglue to form a tube.
Or as in some of my other ITT-KB radios which use these tubes just leave them out.
The batteries tumble out when the battery cover is removed but it works fine with the battery cover in place.

Mike

stevehertz · 2nd Dec 2018, 9:25 am

Just wrap AAA batteries with any kind of tape to achieve AA thickness.

Goldieoldie · 2nd Dec 2018, 10:42 am

AAA batteries are shorter than AA batteries so you have to make up the length as well as the diameter .These cheap adaptors do both

stevehertz · 2nd Dec 2018, 11:10 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldieoldie

AAA batteries are shorter than AA batteries so you have to make up the length as well as the diameter .These cheap adaptors do both

Ah yes of course..

Mike. Watterson · 2nd Dec 2018, 11:44 am

Though AAA are mostly same price for four as AA (I never buy other than Alkaline, but never the Duracell, Energiser or Panasonic as they are overpriced). The AAA are nearly 1/2 capacity, so while I did once use a C to AA adaptor made out of plastic conduit, I can't imagine why I'd want to adapt AAA to AA. I'd use some tape if the original tubes couldn't be sorted somehow.

28th Nov 2018, 9:33 pm	#1
Goldieoldie Octode Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Petersfield, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 1,043	Thin AA batteries Hi I have some vintage transistor radios which use tubes to hold the AA batteries. Modern AA batteries seem to be a larger diameter than the originals so are a tight fit or don't fit at all! Does anyone know of a modern battery which is nearer to the original diameter please? Other batteries such as C and D types are also of interest. Cheers, Pete.

28th Nov 2018, 10:51 pm	#2
'LIVEWIRE?' Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton) Posts: 7,306	Re: Thin AA batteries IIRC, the small cylindrical cells made in the 1960s weren't AA, but a different type number, which escapes me at the moment. Their diameter may well have been smaller than that of AA Batteries. Perhaps other members remember the type no. of 60's 1.5V cells, and when the AA's were introduced. 'D' cells were originally, at least in the U.K., called U2, but I don't remember the other types in use at that time.

28th Nov 2018, 11:02 pm	#3
Dave757 Heptode Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Scratby, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 651	Re: Thin AA batteries Hi, Weren't they called HP7s? Kind regards Dave

28th Nov 2018, 11:03 pm	#4
crackle Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Basildon, Essex, UK. Posts: 4,100	Re: Thin AA batteries It may be the tubes have shrunk, a lot of plastics shrink with age. Mike

29th Nov 2018, 12:32 am	#5
Goldieoldie Octode Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Petersfield, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 1,043	Re: Thin AA batteries Yes I think you are right,they might well of shrunk. I've ordered some of those AAA to AA converters. With any luck they might be a slightly smaller diameter. If not I'll try and reduce the diameter by sanding down.

29th Nov 2018, 5:47 am	#7
broadgage Nonode Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: North Somerset, UK. Posts: 2,130	Re: Thin AA batteries The cells now known as AA have, over the years been known by various other terms, but AFAIK have always had the same nominal dimensions. Any change in size would have resulted in considerable adverse publicity regarding new cells not fitting existing equipment.

29th Nov 2018, 6:12 am	#8
TonyDuell Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK. Posts: 5,222	Re: Thin AA batteries IIRC the original Penlight Battery was a 3V thing containing 2 of what we now call AA cells in line (A bit like the slightly more common No 8 battery). I am sure the instructions to one of my devices (maybe a Pifco 'Radiometer' test meter) says to use 'half a penlight battery'. An AA cell fits fine. I remember buying AA cells as 'U12' in the blue wrapping. But also as SP7 and HP7 (one of the few times that the number was not kept the same, U2 was the same size as SP2 and HP2). And I think I saw them labelled D14 too. The old Ever Ready equivalents of the modern cell sizes seem to be : D : U2, SP2, HP2 C : U11, SP11, HP11 AA : U12, SP7, HP7 AAA : U16 N : D23

29th Nov 2018, 8:41 am	#9
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	Re: Thin AA batteries I raised this problem over AA batteries in photographic equipment with Ray-O-Vac many years ago: Are these Japanese or UK/USA battery holders? The Americans/British tended to aim for the larger production tolerance while the Japanese aimed at the smaller thus saving them millions in Yen in material costs thereby increasing profit margins! Simples!

29th Nov 2018, 9:25 am	#10
KeithsTV Nonode Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South Bradford, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 2,573	Re: Thin AA batteries I posted a 1966 article from Practical Electronics back in 2007 which had the dimensions, and other information, for various batteries of the time. https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=20800 It would be interesting to compare those dimensions with the dimensions of current batteries. Keith

30th Nov 2018, 11:30 am	#11
D.Finney Pentode Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 147	Re: Thin AA batteries Penlight/keyring torch batteries were a lot smaller.

30th Nov 2018, 3:48 pm	#12
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,536	Re: Thin AA batteries Originally penlight batteries were 2AA. AAA came along later and enabled more penlike penlights A very effective penlight can now be made of course using 3AAA and a high brightness white LED. Add a decent joule-thief circuit for an even more convincing one with just 2*AAA cells. __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

30th Nov 2018, 11:46 pm	#13
johntech Triode Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Harrogate, North Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 34	Re: Thin AA batteries I think the original "penlight batteries" only had a paper sleeve (not leakproof) the modern batteries have a steel outer which is supposedly leak proof hence the diameter difference.

1st Dec 2018, 9:58 pm	#15
Goldieoldie Octode Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Petersfield, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 1,043	Re: Thin AA batteries I have received the AAA to AA converters and they are thinner ! The average diameter of a Alkaline AA is 14 mm The diameter of these converters is 13.7 mm although where they snap in half is slightly bigger.A quick rub down with sandpaper sorts that Not much thinner but they now fit my radios Hopefully this info useful to others .They cost £2.40 for 4 btw on EBay

1st Dec 2018, 10:38 pm	#16
crackle Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Basildon, Essex, UK. Posts: 4,100	Re: Thin AA batteries I would have found myself some thin clear plastic sheet, wrapped it loosely around a couple of batteries and glued it down with superglue to form a tube. Or as in some of my other ITT-KB radios which use these tubes just leave them out. The batteries tumble out when the battery cover is removed but it works fine with the battery cover in place. Mike

2nd Dec 2018, 9:25 am	#17
stevehertz Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK. Posts: 8,834	Re: Thin AA batteries Just wrap AAA batteries with any kind of tape to achieve AA thickness. __________________ A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever..

2nd Dec 2018, 10:42 am	#18
Goldieoldie Octode Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Petersfield, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 1,043	Re: Thin AA batteries AAA batteries are shorter than AA batteries so you have to make up the length as well as the diameter .These cheap adaptors do both

2nd Dec 2018, 11:44 am	#20
Mike. Watterson Heptode Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Limerick, Ireland. Posts: 901	Re: Thin AA batteries Though AAA are mostly same price for four as AA (I never buy other than Alkaline, but never the Duracell, Energiser or Panasonic as they are overpriced). The AAA are nearly 1/2 capacity, so while I did once use a C to AA adaptor made out of plastic conduit, I can't imagine why I'd want to adapt AAA to AA. I'd use some tape if the original tubes couldn't be sorted somehow.