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Old 19th Nov 2018, 3:14 pm   #1
avocollector
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Default Battery failure in battery drills etc.

As some one who loves gadgets and who does the odd bit of DIY, I've progressed to acquiring DeWalt or Milwaukee battery tools when possible as I've found them quite reliable when you need that extra bit of oomph on a job (not that others are not but these were my choice). As such I acquired several 18 volt DeWalt batteries in various ways -one I bought brand new, several were second hand with the tools and I think one was a Asian knockoff. Everything has worked very well for years up to recently when suddenly about 5 or so of them have all packed up at the same time - only one remains in excellent condition (unfortunately I'm not sure which type new/used or knockoff). I would have thought the charger was the problem but for the one good one that happily recharges. These are not the new DeWalt Lithium-Ion type but the old style Nickel hydride 2 AH type. Anyone else come across this?? it really puzzles me as they must all be differing ages.
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Old 19th Nov 2018, 3:20 pm   #2
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

It may just be down to bad luck.
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Old 19th Nov 2018, 3:23 pm   #3
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

Maybe lower autumnal temperatures in an outdoor workshop?

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Old 19th Nov 2018, 3:28 pm   #4
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

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Maybe lower autumnal temperatures in an outdoor workshop?
He's in NZ, so it should be warming up nicely down there
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Old 19th Nov 2018, 3:34 pm   #5
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

Needs left handed current to charge them down there.

Seriously, I have found that the quality of the cells in some battery packs is very poor. I used to buy the "C" calls to replace them and found that they lasted much longer than the originals.

Often its just one cell in the stack that goes OC.
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Old 19th Nov 2018, 3:44 pm   #6
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

Thanks for those thoughts - it's not meant to be a complaint. I accept after all things wear out and batteries stop holding charge but it was all these at the same time that intrigued me! wonder if it IS something in the charger after all. I've got some replacement Asian knockoffs coming so it will be interesting to see if they are OK with the charger. As a side issue I was shocked at the price of new genuine batteries when I looked - just about doubled in price over a couple of years.
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Old 19th Nov 2018, 3:46 pm   #7
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

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He's in NZ, so it should be warming up nicely down there
yes and no - up and down like a yoyo at the moment with one day being 18 degrees Celsius and the next being 10 with seemingly no rhyme or reason.
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Old 19th Nov 2018, 9:15 pm   #8
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

I have a similar situation with Bosch 14.4v ones. I have a mix of OE and various aftermarket. It's the OE ones that are really poor. Either failed completely, or very poor charge retention. The cheap nasty ones on the other hand, mostly branded Floureon but apparently knock offs of each other, are lasting well and usually hold charge between uses.
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Old 19th Nov 2018, 9:55 pm   #9
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

If you have a number of packs which don't work (and you can be bothered) then open them up, find which cells hold no charge - their terminal voltage will be much lower than the others - snip them out and replace with a good cell from a pack which you decide to break up. I've saved a couple of packs that way. And yes, my 3Ah 'Floureon' replacement pack is the best of the 3 I have, the other two being Makita-branded originals.
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Old 21st Nov 2018, 6:31 pm   #10
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

I have thought about doing this, but batteries scare me. A long time ago I opened a failed one up, and managed to get a short across some good cells. The resulting glow was 'worrying'.

I have also struggled to solder the tags in the past, they seem to be welded.
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Old 21st Nov 2018, 6:41 pm   #11
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

They do 'go off' with age: I've had several packs both NiCd and NiMH that have, after a few years of relatively light use, decided to call it a day. They either don't take a charge or they take an apparently 'full' charge but suffer rapid self-discharge to the point of uselessness after being left to stand for a couple of days.

The cost of buying a set of replacement cells and rebuilding a pack often works out roughly the same as buying a new tool/charger/battery package from one of the do-it-yourself discount-sheds: going this way you are also likely to get the benefit of a modern brushless-motor drill and Li-Ion cells. Lithium-Ion battery technology in power tools is truly eye-opening if you're only familiar with NiCd stuff!

[I've got several dead drills here; someday I might use the motors to make a 'screwdriver' remotely-tunable antenna].
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Old 29th Nov 2018, 3:46 pm   #12
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

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Originally Posted by mark_in_manc View Post
If you have a number of packs which don't work (and you can be bothered) then open them up, find which cells hold no charge - their terminal voltage will be much lower than the others - snip them out and replace with a good cell from a pack which you decide to break up. I've saved a couple of packs that way. And yes, my 3Ah 'Floureon' replacement pack is the best of the 3 I have, the other two being Makita-branded originals.
Good idea - will give it a try and many thanks for the suggestion. One of those 'obvious' ideas I never thought of and I really have nothing to loose
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Old 29th Nov 2018, 3:49 pm   #13
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

One annoying thing - everybody local was charging $100+ for either repacking one battery or new individual knockoffs so I went to an overseas site, found a couple for $100, paid and happily waited for them to arrive. Only to have the money refunded a week later - no reason given other then they had 'not shipped'. So looking again.
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Old 29th Nov 2018, 9:38 pm   #14
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duncanlowe View Post
I have a similar situation with Bosch 14.4v ones. I have a mix of OE and various aftermarket. It's the OE ones that are really poor. Either failed completely, or very poor charge retention. The cheap nasty ones on the other hand, mostly branded Floureon but apparently knock offs of each other, are lasting well and usually hold charge between uses.
I think this just serves to highlight the randomness of this problem; I have a Bosch battery that is 20 years old and still holds a useful amount of charge. The additional Floureon one which I have is very good; don't think I'd label it as "cheap and nasty".

B
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Old 17th Dec 2018, 4:32 pm   #15
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

Update - took one of my non functioning batteries apart and was pleasantly surprised to find a soldered lead between cells had oxidised almost completely away. Soldered a new lead in with a 100 w iron and early indications are it is now working again. Sadly another far better condition battery had no obvious problems when dissembled.
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Old 17th Dec 2018, 6:07 pm   #16
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

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Originally Posted by avocollector View Post
Sadly another far better condition battery had no obvious problems when dissembled.
One of mine was fine when I snipped out the low-volt cell and soldered in a spare. The other was not obvious, and only revealed the knackered cells when lashed back up to the motor, on-load.

Worth noting (for anyone travelling this way) that it is much easier to solder to the tags on the cells, than to the cells themselves - so think about that when you decide where along the tag, to apply the snips.
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Old 17th Dec 2018, 6:56 pm   #17
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

Years ago in ETI magazine (I think it was ETI) anyway there was a good article on Zapping Ni - cads and I've been doing a less sophisticated arrangement ever since with success. ETI circuit was detailed with a pcb and a relay which was pulsing an output.
I take the pack apart, locate the faulty cell and trangely, some times one cell has reversed its polarity. I put the pack on charge and using my PSU set on 12 volts briefly connect it onto the faulty cell and usually it starts charging. I'm not claiming that the pack is 100% but it work most of the time. Like others have replaced a cell by soldering in a replacement from another pack. Worth a try and not much to loose.
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Old 17th Dec 2018, 7:32 pm   #18
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

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Worth a try and not much to loose.
But everything to tighten!
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Old 17th Dec 2018, 7:35 pm   #19
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

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Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
Lithium-Ion battery technology in power tools is truly eye-opening if you're only familiar with NiCd stuff!
Hi

I agree with this. I've been let down countless times with NiCd and NiMH batteries in power tools especially NiMH types that inconveniently self discharge. I have rebuilt battery packs in the past but the cost is hardly worth it if using quality cells. I think the problem is getting matched cells to avoid charging problems
Lithium Ion technology is light years ahead of the those older battery technologies as it's generally far more dependable.

Regards
Symon.
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Old 17th Dec 2018, 11:19 pm   #20
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Default Re: Battery failure in battery drills etc.

I’ve had several similar experiences. I’m amazed that suppliers can offer a decent power tool brand new with batteries, for less than the cost of the replacement cells. I’ve ceased replacing them nowadays, partly due to the virtual impossibility of soldering to the battery pack terminals, whick I think may be stainless steel. Consequently I have a growing collection of cordless and battery-less drills...

I converted one drill to ‘corded’ 12 volt operation from my 30 amp bench power supply, and the torque available is terrific!

Lithium ion batteries do seem an order of magnitude better than NiCd. I read that NiMH aren’t in fact really as well suited as NiCd to the sort of high rate burst discharge typical of power tool duty.
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