A pair of Rediffusion monos.... - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Colourstar · 29th Sep 2018, 9:11 am

Knowing that a few ex-Rediffusion folk look at this forum, I thought these sets may stir a few memories....

The earlier of the two is a dual standard 2T2010 for cable use and (I think) features the MK10 chassis. I guess it would date from around 1968/9 as it has the old red/black mains lead coding. The only valves are in the line output stage.

The later set is an MU2013 and has a fitted varicap tuner. The styling reminds me a little of the contemporary Decca MS series of the early 70s. Rediffusion sets are always that little bit different and the internal layout of this one is no exception with the chassis crammed over to the left leaving the rest of the cabinet pretty much empty. Note also the tripler attached halfway along the top of the case! Consequently this set has even less valves- just two in the line output. I'd guess 1973 or thereabouts would be about right in terms of date?

I'm assuming both chassis were manufactured by Plessey? They really are exceptionally nicely made, with much use of plug-in sub-panels for ease of service. Note that both use an identical back cover despite containing totally different chassis!

Some pictures! First of the dual standard set.

Steve

Colourstar · 29th Sep 2018, 9:12 am

And some images of the MU2031...

dazzlevision · 29th Sep 2018, 9:40 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colourstar

Knowing that a few ex-Rediffusion folk look at this forum, I thought these sets may stir a few memories....

I'm assuming both chassis were manufactured by Plessey?

Steve

No, they weren't made by Plessey, who pulled out of manufacturing complete TVs around 1966 - their main customer was the Co-op, who sold "Defiant" branded TVs, radios, etc.

Rediffusion designed and made their own sets (in the main, apart from some "badge engineered" sets made by others during the early years of colour TV in the UK - I have seen a Rediffusion branded Decca Bradford chassis CTV).

They had a factory in the North East of England: Rediffusion Consumer Electronics Ltd, St Helen’s Auckland, Bishop Auckland, Co Durham. It closed down circa 1984, after the Rediffusion TV rentals and shops business was sold to Granada TV Rental. Their final CTV chassis was the Mark 4A, which used the Videcolor S4 CRT.

FERNSEH · 29th Sep 2018, 10:09 am

Hi Steve,
Back in 1985 I bought a quantity of MU2031 sets to rent out when in that year the colour TV license fee was increased. Customers threatened to terminate their colour TV rentals and return to black and white viewing. I had to act fast and learning that Rediffusion Mark 13 mono sets were on sale in one of those trade outlets that sold ex-rental TVs, twenty MU2030 sets were purchased to replace the rented CTVs.
The Mk13 sets needed some work to bring them up to a reasonable standard for rental but fortunately spare parts were still available from the Rediffusion service department in Rochdale.
The mono sets weren't in service very long and in due course most of the customers returned to colour TV viewing again.

DFWB.

dave walsh · 29th Sep 2018, 11:41 am

The dual standard cable set is similar but different I think to the one that Mike Barker brought to Golborne for me [I'm in the south at present]. I was first shown the Rediffusion wall switch system at Rammy in 1974 and there was a Rediffusion shop across from what is now an Italian Restaurant on Bolton Road West. I could get the Winter Hill signal at my end of the valley but many people had been on the cable [a nine meg carrier run on twisted multi "pair" system I think] since the late 50's. The set has pride of place in my Ramsbottom lounge and I enjoy asking visitors to spot what's missing, pointing out that it's very much pre the advent of remote controls! They still don't get it. Coincidentally there was a similar cable service here as well emanating from Hastings, due to continental/weather interference particularly in summer on Analogue TV. [2x405 was close to 819 lines!]

Dave

Bexhill

raditechman · 29th Sep 2018, 3:12 pm

Well the photos did what you said for me and "stirred a few memories". (I worked for Rediffusion from 1964-1981) Only on aerial sets.

John

Rigsby 77 · 29th Sep 2018, 8:36 pm

Served my time there in tower blocks in Wolverhampton, a tad difficult if the sub had missed a few months.
Started when I was 17 so thats 40 years ago. Glad to be out of the trade now,

Colourstar · 29th Sep 2018, 9:23 pm

Thanks everyone for the extra info - and the memories.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FERNSEH

Back in 1985 I bought a quantity of MU2031 sets to rent out when in that year the colour TV license fee was increased.

The mono sets weren't in service very long and in due course most of the customers returned to colour TV viewing again.

DFWB.

Hi David- Useful to know the set with the tuner is a Mk13. What became of all yours when they eventually came back? Were they sold on or scrapped? Do you still have any service info on the chassis? I have nothing at all!

Steve

FERNSEH · 30th Sep 2018, 1:03 am

Hi Steve,
I'm sorry to say that all the refurbed Mark 13s were scrapped after a fairly short service in my rental fleet. Customers soon got fed up watching monochrome pictures, grudgingly paid the increased license fee and returned to renting colour TVs.
I'm sure I still have the service manuals for the Mk13.

DFWB.

Studio263 · 30th Sep 2018, 4:45 am

My Grandmother had the cable version of the single standard one on rental, model 'Blythe'. She lived on Brighton seafront and having cable was seen as an advantage because of not having an aerial to maintain in hostile environment. Latterly the cable service was withdrawn and a Rediffusion converter box was provided instead. The set remained there until the mid 80s, when I got her a Skantic 20" colour set instead.

The frame linearity of the Rediffusion was always terrible; the tops of people's heads were stretched right up. Because it was a rental set I was never allowed to do anything about it, but the people were never called to fix it either - so much for 'free' service being a benefit of renting! I'd always assumed that the problem was down to the usual frailties of a PCL85-based valve frame timebase, but to discover that its transistorised there means that I'll have to re-think that! It was like it for years; I wonder what the cause was?

Colourstar · 30th Sep 2018, 9:40 am

I've woken up the single standard set. There's a dry joint or poor connection somewhere as it sits there with valves glowing and HT present but doing nothing until general prodding makes it burst into life. The crt isn't in its first flush of youth- it's a Polish Unitra replacement - an A50/140W, not the usual 120W/R. What's the difference?

As the photo shows, there's a problem with very poor gain on this set, but the test pattern is just about resolvable.

Especially for Tim, a photo of the timebase panel. The middle and right hand presets control height and linearity. Plenty of 'tropical fish' caps but no PCL85!

Steve

FERNSEH · 30th Sep 2018, 10:35 am

Hi Steve,
you might find the information in this Rediffusion TV topic useful:
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=132088

Can't find any info for the Polish made A50-140W.

DFWB.

neil29 · 30th Sep 2018, 12:35 pm

Its nice to see a picture of sorts on it again steve. it was working pretty much the same when I got it but after leaving it a while I couldn't get a peep out of it despite checking voltages and tapping panels wiggling wires etc. and hopefully the dodgy connection wont be too hard to find.

Cheers
Neil.

Pieter H · 30th Sep 2018, 5:52 pm

Hi Steve,
could you make a close-up picture of the tuner - almost certainly a Philips ELC1042 - in the MU2031 set? Would be nice to confirm that.

Cheers, Pieter

Colourstar · 30th Sep 2018, 8:49 pm

Hi Neil

Yes, it's odd how it bursts into life only when its good and ready, even if left untouched.

Hi Pieter

Here's the tuner as requested- and you are right it's a Philips/Mullard ELC1042. Popping the cover off I notice there are two lockfit transistors- a BF194 and BF195. These type are becoming unreliable now so could well be resposible for the low gain.

Steve

jayceebee · 30th Sep 2018, 9:43 pm

I could be very wrong here Steve but I was expecting an ELC1043, the ELC1042 I thought was VHF bands 1 and 3. This may explain the apparent low gain, do you have a VHF 625 signal source you can try?

I suspect this set was for use on a down converted UHF to VHF communal TV system.

John.

kan_turk · 30th Sep 2018, 10:49 pm

Or you could swap it for an ELC1043 (they are pin compatible except for the band switching which can be ignored) just to get you going

Rgds

J

FERNSEH · 30th Sep 2018, 11:04 pm

Information from the Rediffusion Mark 13 service manual.
SECTION J 5:
Check that correct tuner assembly is fitted i.e. : -

UHF Index 75805 (Tuner Type ELC1043).
VHF Index 75820 (Tuner Type ELC1042) Also labelled V.H.F. on tuner.

I assume that the ELC1042 is a multi-band tuner.

DFWB.

Colourstar · 30th Sep 2018, 11:22 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayceebee

I could be very wrong here Steve but I was expecting an ELC1043, the ELC1042 I thought was VHF bands 1 and 3.

John.

Full marks for observation John, you are absolutely right! I also notice that the 6-button tuner has little windows which correspond to switchable positions obtained by rotating the outer sleeve of each tuner button through positions labelled 'A-C', 'D-I' and 21-68. All are set to 'A-C'.

I don't have a VHF 625 source but if anyone has an ELC1043 from a scrap set I'd be very interested!

The set came from Neil, who may possibly know a little more about the previous owner, who I think he said was in the trade.

FERNSEH · 30th Sep 2018, 11:32 pm

Found this information from an old Solus Electronic Components catalogue for the Mullard ELC1042 tuner unit.
For monochrome television receivers and
wired distribution sets. A tuner covering:
405 lines V.H.F.
625 lines (wired distribution) channels, and
the U.H.F. channels of the CCIR system B.
Electronic tuning and band switching is
used to cover the V.H.F. band I (frequency range
41.5 to 68 MHz) and the U.H.F. band III
frequency range 174 to 230 MHz

DFWB.

29th Sep 2018, 9:11 am	#1
Colourstar Octode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, UK. Posts: 1,397	A pair of Rediffusion monos.... Knowing that a few ex-Rediffusion folk look at this forum, I thought these sets may stir a few memories.... The earlier of the two is a dual standard 2T2010 for cable use and (I think) features the MK10 chassis. I guess it would date from around 1968/9 as it has the old red/black mains lead coding. The only valves are in the line output stage. The later set is an MU2013 and has a fitted varicap tuner. The styling reminds me a little of the contemporary Decca MS series of the early 70s. Rediffusion sets are always that little bit different and the internal layout of this one is no exception with the chassis crammed over to the left leaving the rest of the cabinet pretty much empty. Note also the tripler attached halfway along the top of the case! Consequently this set has even less valves- just two in the line output. I'd guess 1973 or thereabouts would be about right in terms of date? I'm assuming both chassis were manufactured by Plessey? They really are exceptionally nicely made, with much use of plug-in sub-panels for ease of service. Note that both use an identical back cover despite containing totally different chassis! Some pictures! First of the dual standard set. Steve Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Colourstar; 29th Sep 2018 at 9:18 am.

29th Sep 2018, 9:12 am	#2
Colourstar Octode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, UK. Posts: 1,397	Re: A pair of Rediffusion monos.... And some images of the MU2031... Attached Thumbnails

29th Sep 2018, 10:09 am	#4
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: A pair of Rediffusion monos.... Hi Steve, Back in 1985 I bought a quantity of MU2031 sets to rent out when in that year the colour TV license fee was increased. Customers threatened to terminate their colour TV rentals and return to black and white viewing. I had to act fast and learning that Rediffusion Mark 13 mono sets were on sale in one of those trade outlets that sold ex-rental TVs, twenty MU2030 sets were purchased to replace the rented CTVs. The Mk13 sets needed some work to bring them up to a reasonable standard for rental but fortunately spare parts were still available from the Rediffusion service department in Rochdale. The mono sets weren't in service very long and in due course most of the customers returned to colour TV viewing again. DFWB.

29th Sep 2018, 11:41 am	#5
dave walsh Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex. Posts: 5,817	Re: A pair of Rediffusion monos.... The dual standard cable set is similar but different I think to the one that Mike Barker brought to Golborne for me [I'm in the south at present]. I was first shown the Rediffusion wall switch system at Rammy in 1974 and there was a Rediffusion shop across from what is now an Italian Restaurant on Bolton Road West. I could get the Winter Hill signal at my end of the valley but many people had been on the cable [a nine meg carrier run on twisted multi "pair" system I think] since the late 50's. The set has pride of place in my Ramsbottom lounge and I enjoy asking visitors to spot what's missing, pointing out that it's very much pre the advent of remote controls! They still don't get it. Coincidentally there was a similar cable service here as well emanating from Hastings, due to continental/weather interference particularly in summer on Analogue TV. [2x405 was close to 819 lines!] Dave Bexhill

29th Sep 2018, 3:12 pm	#6
raditechman Heptode Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: West London, UK. Posts: 867	Re: A pair of Rediffusion monos.... Well the photos did what you said for me and "stirred a few memories". (I worked for Rediffusion from 1964-1981) Only on aerial sets. John

29th Sep 2018, 8:36 pm	#7
Rigsby 77 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Wolverhampton, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 7	Re: A pair of Rediffusion monos.... Served my time there in tower blocks in Wolverhampton, a tad difficult if the sub had missed a few months. Started when I was 17 so thats 40 years ago. Glad to be out of the trade now,

30th Sep 2018, 1:03 am	#9
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: A pair of Rediffusion monos.... Hi Steve, I'm sorry to say that all the refurbed Mark 13s were scrapped after a fairly short service in my rental fleet. Customers soon got fed up watching monochrome pictures, grudgingly paid the increased license fee and returned to renting colour TVs. I'm sure I still have the service manuals for the Mk13. DFWB.

30th Sep 2018, 4:45 am	#10
Studio263 Octode Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hampshire, UK. Posts: 1,575	Re: A pair of Rediffusion monos.... My Grandmother had the cable version of the single standard one on rental, model 'Blythe'. She lived on Brighton seafront and having cable was seen as an advantage because of not having an aerial to maintain in hostile environment. Latterly the cable service was withdrawn and a Rediffusion converter box was provided instead. The set remained there until the mid 80s, when I got her a Skantic 20" colour set instead. The frame linearity of the Rediffusion was always terrible; the tops of people's heads were stretched right up. Because it was a rental set I was never allowed to do anything about it, but the people were never called to fix it either - so much for 'free' service being a benefit of renting! I'd always assumed that the problem was down to the usual frailties of a PCL85-based valve frame timebase, but to discover that its transistorised there means that I'll have to re-think that! It was like it for years; I wonder what the cause was?

30th Sep 2018, 9:40 am	#11
Colourstar Octode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, UK. Posts: 1,397	Re: A pair of Rediffusion monos.... I've woken up the single standard set. There's a dry joint or poor connection somewhere as it sits there with valves glowing and HT present but doing nothing until general prodding makes it burst into life. The crt isn't in its first flush of youth- it's a Polish Unitra replacement - an A50/140W, not the usual 120W/R. What's the difference? As the photo shows, there's a problem with very poor gain on this set, but the test pattern is just about resolvable. Especially for Tim, a photo of the timebase panel. The middle and right hand presets control height and linearity. Plenty of 'tropical fish' caps but no PCL85! Steve Attached Thumbnails

30th Sep 2018, 10:35 am	#12
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: A pair of Rediffusion monos.... Hi Steve, you might find the information in this Rediffusion TV topic useful: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=132088 Can't find any info for the Polish made A50-140W. DFWB.

30th Sep 2018, 12:35 pm	#13
neil29 Heptode Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Newport, Gwent, UK. Posts: 962	Re: A pair of Rediffusion monos.... Its nice to see a picture of sorts on it again steve. it was working pretty much the same when I got it but after leaving it a while I couldn't get a peep out of it despite checking voltages and tapping panels wiggling wires etc. and hopefully the dodgy connection wont be too hard to find. Cheers Neil.

30th Sep 2018, 5:52 pm	#14
Pieter H Tetrode Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Waalre, Netherlands Posts: 67	Re: A pair of Rediffusion monos.... Hi Steve, could you make a close-up picture of the tuner - almost certainly a Philips ELC1042 - in the MU2031 set? Would be nice to confirm that. Cheers, Pieter

30th Sep 2018, 8:49 pm	#15
Colourstar Octode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, UK. Posts: 1,397	Re: A pair of Rediffusion monos.... Hi Neil Yes, it's odd how it bursts into life only when its good and ready, even if left untouched. Hi Pieter Here's the tuner as requested- and you are right it's a Philips/Mullard ELC1042. Popping the cover off I notice there are two lockfit transistors- a BF194 and BF195. These type are becoming unreliable now so could well be resposible for the low gain. Steve Attached Thumbnails

30th Sep 2018, 9:43 pm	#16
jayceebee Heptode Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Durham, County Durham, UK. Posts: 640	Re: A pair of Rediffusion monos.... I could be very wrong here Steve but I was expecting an ELC1043, the ELC1042 I thought was VHF bands 1 and 3. This may explain the apparent low gain, do you have a VHF 625 signal source you can try? I suspect this set was for use on a down converted UHF to VHF communal TV system. John. Last edited by jayceebee; 30th Sep 2018 at 9:56 pm. Reason: more info

30th Sep 2018, 10:49 pm	#17
kan_turk Hexode Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 398	Re: A pair of Rediffusion monos.... Or you could swap it for an ELC1043 (they are pin compatible except for the band switching which can be ignored) just to get you going Rgds J

30th Sep 2018, 11:04 pm	#18
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: A pair of Rediffusion monos.... Information from the Rediffusion Mark 13 service manual. SECTION J 5: Check that correct tuner assembly is fitted i.e. : - UHF Index 75805 (Tuner Type ELC1043). VHF Index 75820 (Tuner Type ELC1042) Also labelled V.H.F. on tuner. I assume that the ELC1042 is a multi-band tuner. DFWB.

30th Sep 2018, 11:32 pm	#20
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: A pair of Rediffusion monos.... Found this information from an old Solus Electronic Components catalogue for the Mullard ELC1042 tuner unit. For monochrome television receivers and wired distribution sets. A tuner covering: 405 lines V.H.F. 625 lines (wired distribution) channels, and the U.H.F. channels of the CCIR system B. Electronic tuning and band switching is used to cover the V.H.F. band I (frequency range 41.5 to 68 MHz) and the U.H.F. band III frequency range 174 to 230 MHz DFWB.