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Old 26th Feb 2022, 2:47 pm   #1
Millcottage
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Default Bakelite phones

Hi - I moved into a new build house in 2017 with fibre to the door.
We were with BT and the BT wifi/router hub plugged into the ONT box.
Also a cable with BT plugs at end connected the master phone socket into the telephone port on the OpenReach ONT box.
Then in house I have 1950 Red Bakelite phone , 1954 Ivory Bakelite phone , 1935 Black Bakelite phone and a BT cordless phone.
All phones ring for incoming calls and dial out ok (including dial phones).
We only use the cordless to make out going calls itís easier and quicker.
Answer phone using any of the phones.

Now switched ISP to Vodafone (took them 11 days to switch over) and all now working for internet.
However I now plug the master socket into the vodafone wifi/router telephone port via cable with BT plug at one end (goes into master socket) and RJ11 at other end (goes into vodafone wifi/router.
I now only get the cordless phone ring for incoming calls.
All phones have a dial tone.
Iím not worried about the outgoing calls via dial working ,but would like the sound of bells again for incoming calls.

Help!
I presume I need some sort of REN booster?
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Old 26th Feb 2022, 3:17 pm   #2
rambo1152
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Default Re: Bakelite phones

Simplest solution to make them ring, is connect them via an ADSL microfilter. This has nothing to do with ADSL, it works because the filter contains a capacitor which effectively converts the telephone socket on the ONT box into a proper master socket. Modern wired phones and DECT phones will ring regardless, but our vintage phones expect the ringing current to be present at pin 3 of the plug which the microfilter will provide via an internal capacitor.
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Old 26th Feb 2022, 3:24 pm   #3
Millcottage
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Default Re: Bakelite phones

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
Simplest solution to make them ring, is connect them via an ADSL microfilter. This has nothing to do with ADSL, it works because the filter contains a capacitor which effectively converts the telephone socket on the ONT box into a proper master socket. Modern wired phones and DECT phones will ring regardless, but our vintage phones expect the ringing current to be present at pin 3 of the plug which the microfilter will provide via an internal capacitor.
The phones a work aka ring when master socket is connected to ONT phone socket.
They stopped ringing when I migrated from BT to vodafone and master socket now plugs into vodafone wifi/router socket/port instead.
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Old 26th Feb 2022, 3:30 pm   #4
Millcottage
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Default Re: Bakelite phones

Tried the ADLS filter regardless between the vodafone wifi/router phone socket and master socket , didnít work sadly :-(
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Old 26th Feb 2022, 3:34 pm   #5
paulsherwin
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Default Re: Bakelite phones

It does sound as if the router phone interface isn't supplying enough ringing current.
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Old 26th Feb 2022, 4:01 pm   #6
rambo1152
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Default Re: Bakelite phones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Millcottage View Post
Tried the ADLS filter regardless between the vodafone wifi/router phone socket and master socket , didn’t work sadly :-(

I think you might have misunderstood. BT would have provided an adapter cable with an RJ11 plug on one end and a UK telephone socket on the other, the filter should be inserted between the telephone socket and the phone cord.

It sounds as if you were somehow connecting it on the RJ11 side
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Old 26th Feb 2022, 4:32 pm   #7
Millcottage
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Default Re: Bakelite phones

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millcottage View Post
Tried the ADLS filter regardless between the vodafone wifi/router phone socket and master socket , didnít work sadly :-(

I think you might have misunderstood. BT would have provided an adapter cable with an RJ11 plug on one end and a UK telephone socket on the other, the filter should be inserted between the telephone socket and the phone cord.

It sounds as if you were somehow connecting it on the RJ11 side
Well done and thanks for your advice.
I tried the ADLS between phone wire and socket in wall in bedroom and that bakelite rang itís bells on incoming call.
So I now have to search my box of things I never throw away in case for two more ADSL filters and place them between phone and wall socket for other two bakelite phones Ö..

Many many thanks for your reply.
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Old 26th Feb 2022, 6:07 pm   #8
rambo1152
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Default Re: Bakelite phones

Glad to have helped!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Millcottage View Post
Iím not worried about the outgoing calls via dial working ,but would like the sound of bells again for incoming calls.
There are several strategies for getting a pulse dialling phone dialling on a VoIP line.
Explored at length in this forum, the most recent thread being:
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=186480
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Old 15th Jul 2022, 3:08 pm   #9
BigClick
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Default Re: Bakelite phones

I moved house and connected my Button A B to Virgin VoIP adapter. It doesnt work.

I get dial tone for the first off hook but then the switch hook wont clear the line like it did on standard PSTN. I have to disconnect the phone before I can get dial tone again.

Obviously dialing wont work either
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Old 16th Jul 2022, 2:43 pm   #10
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Default Re: Bakelite phones

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
Glad to have helped!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Millcottage View Post
Iím not worried about the outgoing calls via dial working ,but would like the sound of bells again for incoming calls.
There are several strategies for getting a pulse dialling phone dialling on a VoIP line.
Explored at length in this forum, the most recent thread being:
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=186480
The current range of Grandstream HT8XX range of ATAs work with pulse dialling telephones. They intend keeping the facility on their ATAs. I had some correspondence with them a couple of years ago and got them to add the facility to use telephones fitted with the 'reverse' New Zealand dial , and to allow tones lower than 301Hz so the older UK tones such as the old 'purring' dialtone could be set up. We have hundreds of old rotary dial telephones working on our replica of the UK public network as it used to be forty/fifty years ago with the old dialling codes - London is still 01-xxx xxxx, Leicester 0533 xxxxx (rather than 0116 xxx xxxx) and smaller exchanges such as Llanferres 0352 83 xxx. Even BT have lines off the network! Could be because there are no charges! Well not quite the reason for BT. They had found an old electromechanical PABX powered up waiting for a call in Leicester Exchange. It hadn't handles a call since 1985 (when they gave their engineers the newly introduced mobile phones). The PABX was moved to London where it has been reinstalled and they wanted to put the original Leicester numbers on it and only our network could provide them!

Grandstream 5XX/7XX and the current HT8XX ranges work with pulse dialling phones but avoid ones badged 'Vonage' or 'ACN' as they have firmware locked to those Internet Telephone Service Providers. The Grandstream GXW4004/4008 - 4 lines & 8 lines - also work with pulse dialling as well but don't come up as often.

Keep your eyes open - I bought an HT814 for 4 lines for £41 on Fleabay last week!
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Old 16th Jul 2022, 4:10 pm   #11
rambo1152
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Default Re: Bakelite phones

My first foray into VoIP involved a Vonage locked PAP-2, but I had found details of how to unlock it.

Can you suggest why Bigclick's A-B coinbox wont clear down on an adapter?
I wondered if it could be a line polarity issue, but looking at the diagrams you posted I cant see any rectifiers that might cause that.
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Old 18th Jul 2022, 9:56 pm   #12
Oldcodger
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Default Re: Bakelite phones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Millcottage View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millcottage View Post
Tried the ADLS filter regardless between the vodafone wifi/router phone socket and master socket , didnít work sadly :-(

I think you might have misunderstood. BT would have provided an adapter cable with an RJ11 plug on one end and a UK telephone socket on the other, the filter should be inserted between the telephone socket and the phone cord.

It sounds as if you were somehow connecting it on the RJ11 side
Well done and thanks for your advice.
I tried the ADLS between phone wire and socket in wall in bedroom and that bakelite rang itís bells on incoming call.
So I now have to search my box of things I never throw away in case for two more ADSL filters and place them between phone and wall socket for other two bakelite phones Ö..

Many many thanks for your reply.
Mill- I'm busy trying to construct a diagram, so I'll have to it with a description.
Pardon me if I'm preaching to converted, but a "filter" is designed to filter Broad band from telephone service.
The line goes into the filter and two outputs emerge from the two outputs.
1 = Broadband
2= telephone line .
I get my service via a master socket, but the same applies to a telephone socket on the router, except that no filters are needed.
For service from a standard master socket ( in my home) I plug a filter into the master socket. My router is plugged into the router side of the filter. I then fit a telephone plug into the telephone side of the filter and extend the line to a master socket. The pair go to pins 2 /5 on the master and I extend 2/3/5 to the sockets around my house. But to work properly the wire from terminals 2/3/5 MUST go to the same terminals on the other sockets.
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Old 19th Jul 2022, 1:57 am   #13
rambo1152
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Default Re: Bakelite phones

All perfectly correct of course, but we are not using the microfilter for its intended purpose, we are using it as a work-around.
All microfilters for the UK market should have a capacitor between pin 5 of the line, and pin 3 of the phone socket. In other words the filter acts as a master socket allowing our vintage phones to ring.
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Old 19th Jul 2022, 9:51 am   #14
Pellseinydd
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Default Re: Bakelite phones

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
All perfectly correct of course, but we are not using the microfilter for its intended purpose, we are using it as a work-around.
All microfilters for the UK market should have a capacitor between pin 5 of the line, and pin 3 of the phone socket. In other words the filter acts as a master socket allowing our vintage phones to ring.
Doing the same job as these adapters on eBay - item number 393200143905 Ideal for use with various ATAs and old telephones.
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Old 19th Jul 2022, 10:18 am   #15
Dave Moll
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Default Re: Bakelite phones

I use something similar (but different make) at the telephone end of my Dialgizmo.
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Old 19th Jul 2022, 2:04 pm   #16
steve102
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Default Re: Bakelite phones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pellseinydd View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
All perfectly correct of course, but we are not using the microfilter for its intended purpose, we are using it as a work-around.
All microfilters for the UK market should have a capacitor between pin 5 of the line, and pin 3 of the phone socket. In other words the filter acts as a master socket allowing our vintage phones to ring.
Doing the same job as these adapters on eBay - item number 393200143905 Ideal for use with various ATAs and old telephones.
Virgin Media supplied me with a similar adaptor when they changed me over to a Superhub. It worked but did not provide enough ring current to operate more than 1 telephone. The simple solution was to obtain an RJ11 to RJ11 cable and cut the plug off one end. The cableís red and green (centre) wires were connected to the A and B terminals in my Virgin master socket, having disconnected and taped off the existing (now unused) feed wires. With the RJ11 plug connected to the Superhubís telephone port I can operate up to 3 telephones around the house using the existing extension sockets, including pulse dialling.

Steve
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