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Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc. |
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12th Mar 2023, 5:30 pm | #101 | |
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland.
Posts: 492
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Re: Horizontal Output Transistor Question.
Quote:
ICC5 seems to have been their longest Chassis run, from what i can gather it was introduced in 1986 and i think the last model to use it was the 59P7 in 1990, at least its standard version, not sure about the IMC variants as i understand they were an entirely different breed with all their own suite of problems. I used to have an ICC9 set also which i really liked, had a fantastic picture but had to scrap it due to an intermittent issue with flyback lines appearing every so often and having no repair knowledge at the time. From what I've seen on here the ICC9 was disliked perhaps even more than the ICC5. I also had a widescreen ICC17 that was a good set too but i gave it to a family member and last I heard it "Blew up" and it was never spoken of again. Wondering if part of Thorns influence on Thomson included them continuing with the TX naming convention of their chassis alongside ICC. the TX91/92 sets had nice designs, i always liked the models with the front controls built around the speaker grills - T59F i think was one of them.
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12th Mar 2023, 8:31 pm | #102 |
Nonode
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 2,473
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Re: Horizontal Output Transistor Question.
The ICC9 was only disliked because nearly every Sm transistor failed at some point causing strange symptoms, engineers again disliked this chassis because again few understood it, once you got your head around how it worked it wasn't so scary.
It did need kid gloves all the same though! the ICC5 was a tame beast compared to this chassis. The ICC17 was far more civilised and much better behaved, the biggest problem here being when the lopt failed it often took out the jungle chip which in this chassis was a sm 64 pin device which was the size of a postage stamp and not all engineers could replace it
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12th Mar 2023, 8:44 pm | #103 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 4,184
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Re: Horizontal Output Transistor Question.
I think he TX chassis name was indeed a leftover from Thorn, only used for small screen and low end sets.
Was Thomson's Singapore factory originally a Thorn location? |
13th Mar 2023, 1:58 am | #104 | |
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland.
Posts: 492
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Re: Horizontal Output Transistor Question.
Quote:
Back to my ICC5 - I changed DL22 again and RL22 for good measure and its been running for an hour now and the scan coils are still sounding normal, previously at exactly half an hour runtime they would get louder and thats not happened so looks like its finally sorted, i'll let it run for another hour and see how it gets on.
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13th Mar 2023, 3:59 am | #105 |
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland.
Posts: 492
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Re: Horizontal Output Transistor Question.
Well funny thing just happened, the set ran perfectly for two and a half hours, was just about to turn it off and as i was reaching for the remote there was a loud pop (scared the Shh out of me) set stayed on as if nothing happened but i quickly turned it off as it was the tell tale sound of a capacitor exploding....
Opened up the set and only took me a second to see that CL09 had its cover blown off but was still in place, interestingly enough CL09 is the only location with a brand new capacitor installed, the rest were all donated from other boards. I cant even blame the chassis for this one, this is purely a cheap capacitor at fault, I think i got a whole kit of them from Amazon with 50 different values for 10 or 15 quid, I'll route out another 100uF cap to replace it with ( i wont use any of those same caps again, absolute rubbish) CL09 is in the Resonator circuit QL07 so gotta make sure that area remains trouble free.
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14th Mar 2023, 9:12 pm | #106 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Bergen op Zoom, Netherlands
Posts: 65
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Re: Horizontal Output Transistor Question.
That is very suspicious, I won't expect a explosive cap failure at that point.
Is RL11 still OK? It's a small PSU that delivers the voltage, if I am right around 8.5 volt. To blow up a capacitor that spectacular with RL11 (220 ohm) in series is very strange . . Maybe QL7 got defective because of a malfunction of this supply. Is the voltage stable and withing range at CL09? Are DP45, RP45, TP45 and CP46 ok/no bad solder joints? Last edited by 3CX15000A7; 14th Mar 2023 at 9:29 pm. |
14th Mar 2023, 10:24 pm | #107 | |
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland.
Posts: 492
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Re: Horizontal Output Transistor Question.
Quote:
I think (Im Hoping) this was just a once off due to really bad capacitor quality.
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14th Mar 2023, 10:37 pm | #108 | ||
Tetrode
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Bergen op Zoom, Netherlands
Posts: 65
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Re: Horizontal Output Transistor Question.
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14th Mar 2023, 11:12 pm | #109 | |||
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland.
Posts: 492
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Re: Horizontal Output Transistor Question.
Quote:
Also the other scenario if RL11 is permanently damaged the set most likely wouldn't have started up once CL09 was changed. The set has been on for just shy of an hour now and so far so good, i'll keep an eye on it and see how it gets on.
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15th Mar 2023, 12:21 am | #110 |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Redruth, Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 2,562
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Re: Horizontal Output Transistor Question.
Hello.
For CL09 to fail in such a way I'd certainly want to check the voltage across the replacement cap as 3CX15000A7 pointed out. A voltmeter hooked across it should be revealing. Perhaps the failed cap was incorrectly marked regarding its voltage rating or may have had its polarity wrongly marked. I'd also want to have a look at those other new caps and do some tests on them to prove the point. It's never worth fitting poor/cheap electrolytic caps, they're likely to be a source of trouble. Good quality caps such as Rubycon, Panasonic etc are a good choice, even used pulls from older equipment are likely to be better than cheap new caps. Regards, Symon |
15th Mar 2023, 12:41 am | #111 |
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland.
Posts: 492
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Re: Horizontal Output Transistor Question.
set ran fine for two hours, I'll keep an eye on it over the next few uses but i think its ok.
I think it was just a dud cap to begin with, and they were very cheap, the original cap was a 100uF 16v and the one that popped was marked 100uF 25v... it was however noticeably smaller than the original one so i do question its ratings. I've put a 100uF 16v from my scrap ICC5 chassis and it ran fine with it. time will tell if it holds up, im hoping to have less bad luck with this set going forward.
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15th Mar 2023, 7:01 pm | #112 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Croydon, Surrey, UK.
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Re: Horizontal Output Transistor Question.
Quote:
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15th Mar 2023, 7:31 pm | #113 | ||
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland.
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Re: Horizontal Output Transistor Question.
Quote:
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15th Mar 2023, 7:52 pm | #114 | ||
Nonode
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Redruth, Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 2,562
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Re: Horizontal Output Transistor Question.
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Regards, Symon |
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15th Mar 2023, 8:19 pm | #115 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Croydon, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 7,548
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Re: Horizontal Output Transistor Question.
In the early days of switch mode power supplies I remember finding a 10uF cap O/C in the start-up circuit. I just went ahead and changed it not taking any notice of the type I fitted. Confidently switching on, there was silence for a few seconds and then a loud bang....the TDA4601 met a spectacular demise with a hole blown in the side....(I was at Philips at the time). When I wandered into the tech advice department to get more info and ask further advice I was handed a new TDA4601 and a 'low ESR' capacitor. The helpful technician also gave me a circuit description of a typical switch mode power supply and why low ESR caps had to be used. The new chip and cap were fitted and all was well (after standing well back at switch-on)!! I have to admit that that first experience with switch mode supplies didn't inspire me with much confidence in them but, like everything else, it's all part of life's rich tapestry of learning....that must have been 40 odd years ago!
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There are lots of brilliant keyboard players and then there is Rick Wakeman..... Last edited by Sideband; 15th Mar 2023 at 8:25 pm. |
15th Mar 2023, 8:30 pm | #116 |
Hexode
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire, UK.
Posts: 481
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Re: Horizontal Output Transistor Question.
I've had bad experience with cheap capacitors from Amazon too, I bought them because I wanted something quickly for a prototype at the weekend but it was a mistake. 🙄
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