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Vintage Computers Any vintage computer systems, calculators, video games etc., but with an emphasis on 1980s and earlier equipment. |
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19th Feb 2023, 1:48 pm | #1 |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,083
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A new PIC14 kit
Not sure of the ethics of this but at least they acknowledge Karens project:
https://www.budgetronics.eu/nl/bouwp...kit/a-25922-20 Last edited by Phil__G; 19th Feb 2023 at 1:54 pm. |
19th Feb 2023, 5:29 pm | #2 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Ashford, Kent, UK
Posts: 318
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Re: A new PIC14 kit
I suppose it reveals how the openness of the electronics enthusiast can be taken advantage of. We put Designs/HW/SW out there for the good of the community but don't really expect that anyone will just go ahead and make money from the intellectual property. Perhaps we are being naive? Perhaps they are just making the most of an un-copyrighted design?
(Budgetronics also appear in this post regarding a VT100 terminal emulator, which is another PIC based design). |
19th Feb 2023, 5:34 pm | #3 |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,083
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Re: A new PIC14 kit
They also acknowledge that their CP/M board is a straight copy of the Z80MBC2 with Geoff Grahams PIC vga terminal on board...
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19th Feb 2023, 5:44 pm | #4 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK.
Posts: 5,190
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Re: A new PIC14 kit
Something like that happened to me about 30 years ago.
I'd designed a little interface to connect a Centronics-interfaced printer to a GPIB port. I originally did it for the 3 Rivers PERQ computer but it worked with others too. It was a couple of programmed GALs and a few TTL chips, I posted a circuit diagram and the GAL equations for people who wanted to build it. Some time later I saw a commercial GPIB -> Centronics interface on E-bay, clearly from a company that was making them. Intrigued, I bought one. Well now... I'd used 74LS14 schmitt triggers as the GPIB line receivers rather than the 'right' GPIB chips (this works fine if the bus is not too long or heavily loaded). So did the commercial one. I'd used one section of a 74LS14 along with a resistor and capacitor to make the clock oscillator for the handshake state machine (the logic for that was in one of the GALs). So did the commecial one. The GAL programming was clearly different and alas the commercial one had the security bits set so I couldn't read them out. But the timing of the handshake signals meant it looked very much as though they were using my state machine logic. Nothing I could do about it |
19th Feb 2023, 6:00 pm | #5 |
Nonode
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 2,473
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Re: A new PIC14 kit
I am not sure I see a problem here so long as the supplier gives acknowledgement to the original author as in this case, once you publish in the public domain then you are effectively giving away your IP.
What is even worse is if you have took the trouble and associated expense to protect your IP (patents or otherwise) that someone somewhere has reverse engineered your product and is undercutting you on price, not giving you the credit and even worse claiming it as their own. I don't think this is the case here, Karen O may have been even proud her design gets even more exposure? (although I can't speak for her myself) she was that type of Gal whom was happy to make her designs freely available to all whom were interested.
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I don't suffer from Insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. |
19th Feb 2023, 6:11 pm | #6 |
Nonode
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 2,473
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Re: A new PIC14 kit
I meant to add it is a similar situation to Sword Holders (RIP) Sussex valve tester or the Hedge hogs project which Freya builds, whilst in both cases I take it the designer did give permission, obviously Karen is not around (RIP) to ask now sadly, but at least in the latter case they do give acknowledgement which I think is at least decent.
I don't know what others think here?
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I don't suffer from Insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. |
19th Feb 2023, 7:36 pm | #7 |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,083
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Re: A new PIC14 kit
My other hobby is R/C flying with homebrew radio, in 2009 I designed & published a "dual receiver adapter" which increased resilience in an R/C model. A couple of months later, HobbyKing (China) announced their "dual receiver adapter", and curious, I bought one. Just as in Tony's case, it was 100% mine
Similarly a friend published a simple 2.4ghz spectrum scanner design, some months later we found the exact item being sold by Lantian (again, China). No credits in either case |
19th Feb 2023, 8:25 pm | #8 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 11,483
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Re: A new PIC14 kit
I have to say that I consider anything, like a project or a bit of code, that I have posted in a public place or forum, to be public domain.
In the case of this PIC14 kit, is the price unreasonable? When you add up the cost to one individual of having some boards made in China, of which four will be surplus to requirements, a full set of switches, a PIC which, alone, has been reported to cost as much as £10 now from mainstream suppliers, a 7-segment display... there might not be much change left over from 35EUR. And as has been said, although I don't read Dutch, it would appear that Karen is acknowledged as the designer and source of the code which powers the project. |
19th Feb 2023, 9:07 pm | #9 |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,083
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Re: A new PIC14 kit
I think its reasonably priced.
They should have made it £39.95 For me I would have chosen the 877 version, the physical flags and sense A/B make it a much more versatile tool than the 876 one |
26th Feb 2023, 3:16 pm | #10 |
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: Chesham, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 135
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Re: A new PIC14 kit
On the subject of new things has anyone seen this newly advertised MK14 se emulator
https://www.heinpragt.nl/?p=1917&fbc...gLD8aFgXLHrp7E |
26th Feb 2023, 3:40 pm | #11 | |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,083
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Re: A new PIC14 kit
Quote:
He also does a TRS80 and many more. Very clever bloke. I sent Hein a PIC14 kit recently, annoyingly it was a free gift but customs charged him 9 euros... Hein's finished PIC14: https://scontent.flba3-2.fna.fbcdn.n...ug&oe=6422EEF6 Last edited by Phil__G; 26th Feb 2023 at 3:45 pm. |
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28th Feb 2023, 12:44 pm | #12 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Aberystwyth, Wales, UK.
Posts: 358
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Re: A new PIC14 kit
I have just looked at the budgetronics site and they seem to be a useful supplier for those interested in electronics. As has already been said they have acknowledged that it was Karen's design and are offering a kit of parts to build PIC14, the construction manual also looks useful. I think that this is a useful service for those that find difficult to source comments, it is sad that Karen isn't around to comment.
Dave GW7ONS |