|
Components and Circuits For discussions about component types, alternatives and availability, circuit configurations and modifications etc. Discussions here should be of a general nature and not about specific sets. |
|
Thread Tools |
3rd Jan 2019, 12:11 am | #21 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Evesham, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,244
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
Quote:
The problem with reviewing more expensive meters is simple: cost It's one thing to buy a random selection of £20 meters, but even that cost me more than I should have spent (there are many reviews that haven't been published yet). In £100 price band, I do recommend the Brymen BM235 (or the EEV-Blog branded version, which comes with better probes). But I haven't tested much else there... Second-hand Flukes require a fair bit of patience, but there are bargains to be had. I haven't bought any for a couple of years, and haven't been following the market recently, so I'm not the best person to give specific advice. However, it's worth taking a bit of time to figure out the model ranges so that you have a good idea of what models to include. If you have a couple of specific models in mind, I might be able to say more about them - I've got a fair few of them here. For starters, I'd say that the 87V is solid enough, but hugely over-rated. You can do better for the money. But one at the right price is satisfying. I'd stay away from the earlier versions though... The older 187 or 189 are brilliant meters, but have a high power consumption. You'll get through AAs like never before! But 50,000-count, and lots of useful extras. The 287 or 289 are the replacements for the 187/9, but I'm not convinced the dot-matrix display and long boot time are worth it. I use my 189 more. The 179 is perhaps a bit too basic. I hardly use mine. Solid enough, but... The 115 or 116 or 117 are worth looking at. Pick your exact model carefully - the 115 only has 1mA current resolution, for example. We have quite a few of these at work, and I quite like them. Well made and not outrageously priced. The 79 (series 4) looks like a 177/9, but doesn't have a true RMS converter chip. It's in the range for historic reasons. There are many that are made in China for "emerging markets", such as the 18B+. They look pretty cute, and I've been tempted to pick one up - but I have too many DMMS! A lot of them lack true RMS, if that matters to you. Going back, the original 70-series meters are getting a bit long in the tooth. We had dozens at work, and they are starting to fail now. Not a bad ROI - they have been heavily used over the years. The 25 is the ruggedised version, but they are literally massive - I hardly use mine for that reason. My 79 (series 2) that I mentioned yesterday is newer than I expected (1997), and has super-fast continuity if that matters to you - I'd suggest that if you like the look of the original 70-series, this is the one to look for. The only thing it lacks is RMS conversion. Going further back still, the hand-held types with the buttons down the left side will need a fair bit of TLC, and the plastic cases can get brittle. The LCDs can fail - they are 40 years old by this stage. The 8060A is the pick, and actually this stayed in production for a long time, so recent examples are available. There was a rare IBM blue version, which is highly sought-after. These are all manual ranging, and many have very fast continuity, but lack CAT ratings and should be used for low-energy bench work only. The 8020 was revolutionary when it first arrived: https://dam-assets.fluke.com/s3fs-pu...386856_a_w.pdf |
|
7th Jan 2019, 11:28 pm | #22 | |
Octode
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ventnor, Isle of Wight, & Great Dunmow, Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,377
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
Quote:
Using the reviews on your site of cheap meters, after much comparison, I decided that the Aneng AN860B+ would do what I wanted. Whilst it's auto ranging it does have a manual button and the auto power off can be defeated. There was also a review on YouTube and it performed well and the continuity beeper was more than fast enough. Great. I then discovered that it's not available in the UK- I'd have to order one from China! The AN8008 has limitations that I don't like namely only 10 meg resistance! I had initially looked at the Uni-t UT61 but that didn't look too good after your review. Then there is the Fluke 15B which is available for about 85 quid. So far, this looks like a pretty good bet but I need to look at some reviews first mainly to check out the continuity beeper and auto off situation. I do rather fancy a Fluke even a cheap one! The Aneng AN860B is about £35 and I was going to upgrade to better leads anyway so that would take it above £50.... Many thanks for your very detailed help- I thought replacing a 30 year old meter that does everything exactly as I want it to would be easy! All the best Nick |
|
8th Jan 2019, 12:19 am | #23 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cottingham, East Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 5,766
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
The AN860B is listed at £17.57 on eBay, post free on a slow boat from China, half the price you mention, so maybe it could be worth the three weeks or so waiting for it to arrive Nick.
__________________
David. BVWS Member. G-QRP Club member 1339. |
8th Jan 2019, 12:45 am | #24 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Evesham, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,244
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
Hi Nick,
Sounds like the AN860B+ has doubled in price since I bought mine. You might also consider the BSIDE ZT301. I haven't got around to writing out a full review yet, but there's a reasonable amount of detail here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginn...53/#msg1344853 Basically, it combines the best points of the AN8002 and AN8008 while retaining a compact form factor. It's my pick of the bunch for the cheap meters - I prefer it to the AN860B+, which is physically much larger for not much benefit. I also like the RAGU 17B+, which is similar again - based around the same chipset - but with a soft holster (like the AN860B+) and no-contact voltage detection. It has one major flaw though - I blew mine up by inserting the battery the wrong way around. The battery holder doesn't have the requisite mouldings to prevent a PP3 from being incorrectly installed. And the markings are really feint and easy to miss. It will be easy to fix (just a 3.3V regulator IC - and I'll add a series diode while I'm at it). Size-wize, it sits nicely between the ZT301 and AN860B+. I haven't looked recently, so don't know how easy these 2 alternatives are to find. Also, the AN8009 fixes the 9.99M resistance problem of the AN8008, but doesn't change the current ranges on offer. More info about it here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/e...64/#msg1333864 Ultimately, there's no one perfect multimeter at any price point, but at these prices, you can afford to have more than one. For example, the AN8002 and AN8009 would cover just about any eventuality on the bench. There are plenty of times when you need to use more than 1 meter at the same time - or at least, when doing so makes it quicker and easier. The classic example is setting the 2 pre-sets on a Hacker audio amplifier... Regarding the Fluke 15B, I took a quick look at the manual: https://dam-assets.fluke.com/s3fs-pu..._umeng0000.pdf - you can disable auto power off by holding the yellow button at power-on. Most (perhaps all) Flukes and many other meters offer the same facility. In terms of continuity, I really wouldn't worry as I'm sure it will be good enough for any practical purpose. I haven't watched a YouTube review of it, so haven't seen the "demented probe clacking" that reviewers love so much, but those tests are completely and utterly meaningless anyway and should be ignored. If you find someone measuring it with a function generator - like I did earlier - then that's far more credible. To give you an idea of how I feel about this, I don't find the 60ms of a Fluke 25 to be unreasonably slow, but the 120ms of the UT61E is noticeably sluggish. Moving to the faster meters does not cause me to work faster or better, and that's because I'm careful (having been caught out in the past when I temporarily fell for the "faster-better" hype). What you will get with the Fluke - which is far more important than the continuity performance - is safety. You hopefully will have seen my disclaimers, but in short, the cheap meters belong on the bench, whereas the Fluke's CAT ratings can be believed. In case you haven't seen it, there's a teardown of the 17B here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbEtcpM0RGc - it compares it to the 87V, and it does quite well. Note that this is the older version, but it gives you the basic idea. Good luck, Mark |
8th Jan 2019, 1:19 am | #25 |
Octode
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ventnor, Isle of Wight, & Great Dunmow, Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,377
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
I must repeat the mantra " always check my facts before I post!" My errors always get found out!
Although checking Ebay again, the cheapest I can find the 860B is £26.72. You must have a cheaper version of Ebay David!! Mark. Thank you for yet more pointers- I'll follow those up. Being able to disable auto off on the Fluke might just swing it.... Cheers Nick |
8th Jan 2019, 10:16 am | #26 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cottingham, East Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 5,766
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
I've emailed you the AN860B eBay link Nick.
(Was £21.81 - now £17.57, post free). Hope that helps. Well done to Mark for his comprehensive and objective in-depth review. Whenever anyone starts a thread entitled 'Which multi-meter should I get?' the debate invariably generates more heat than light and usually ends up as a 'beauty parade' in which Fluke receives the garland. Sometimes we're treated to links to 'shroud waving' youtube videos of pyrotechnics in scenarios in which hobbyists aren't going to put themselves. I'm not in the market for a new meter, but the AN860B looks a good buy to me.
__________________
David. BVWS Member. G-QRP Club member 1339. |
8th Jan 2019, 11:24 am | #27 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 4,400
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
+1 from me for Mark's excellent, comprehensive and pragmatic reviews.
I'd been looking for an inexpensive but good meter for day-to-day use to take the place of a trusty Fluke 83 and that would be less of a tragedy if lost, "borrowed", dropped, left on a car roof etc. and settled on a B-Side ZT301 on the strength of them. It does have auto-ranging and power-off, but a good deal of "probe-clacking" demonstrates that the continuity bleeper response certainly isn't sluggish. I do wish that there was an option to disable power-off on many DMMs- but I suspect that manufacturers are paranoid that a few people would leave a meter switched on unintentionally (haven't we all....) and then end up slating it for "poor battery life". That sort of misguided opinion can be random, unfair and very difficult to shake off, particularly in the "axe to grind" social media age. What a super little meter- I liked it straight out of the box for its instinctive useability and ergonomics as regards the functions and options, I haven't even read the instructions several months on which has to be a good sign. The display is clear and particularly big- whilst it only has one side-illuminating "cold white" LED, that actually gives pretty even and effective illumination. The case is hard and lightweight plastic, but they've obviously invested in electronics rather than presentation. The transparent (polystyrene?) LCD cover has a little bit of ripple in it, making it look a bit "cheap" and probably won't resist knocks and scratches very well, but again, one can't niggle too much for the money. As the curvature is very shallow, I would probably cut and shape a piece of acrylic to fit if it ever became a serious problem. I particularly liked the way that it used credible-looking ceramic 20mm fusing rather than the specialist tiny cartridge or PCB-mount fuses of some cheap/compact meters- I would trust it for the generally sub-300VDC valve radio sort of work but keep the Fluke at hand for more serious stuff. I also like the way that it uses 2x AA cells for power, rather than PP3s or AAAs like many others- cheap, long-lasting and everyone sells them. It doesn't come with a holster, but I bought a generic one from eBay for around £3 delivered (green Chinese characters and "Elecall" on the case) that accommodates the meter with probes by one side so as not to mark the screen, plus a bit of space at one end for crocodile clips, spare cells or whatever. The ZT301 is available on eBay for around £14 upwards. Excellent, thanks again Mark, Colin |
8th Jan 2019, 12:46 pm | #28 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Evesham, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,244
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
Hi Colin,
Thank you for the positive feedback Most of those cheap multimeters live in a plastic box under the bench, but the ZT301 is on the bench, and is actively used. It's an incredible meter for the money. In case you haven't already discovered it, hold down "Select" while powering up - the meter will beep 5 times, and that means that auto power-off has been disabled. The meter will still beep every 15 minutes - as it normally does just before shutting down - but it will stay awake until you manually switch it off. All meters with this chipset behave this way. I guess someone thought it was a good idea to preserve the beeping so that the meter doesn't get left on indefinitely. To be honest, given how low the battery consumption is, it hardly seems worth worrying about it. On a similar note, I often let these cheap meters turn off by themselves - saves wearing out the rotary switch Another point about continuity speed: everyone forgets about the probes. If you buy an EEVBlog branded Brymen BM235, it comes with upgraded gold-plated probes (the standard version comes with nickel-plated probes). These make quite a difference to the continuity performance. Dave did a short video about it a while back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV9mW0rpRxg Comparing the Bryman probes to a set of Fluke TL71 using the ZT301, there is a huge difference in the continuity speed. Same story on a Fluke 87V, despite its sub-1ms continuity response. Probes oxidise, as do connectors, and this is why I am slow and deliberate when doing a "continuity scan", whatever the meter... Cheers, Mark |
8th Jan 2019, 12:54 pm | #29 |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 2,587
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
|
8th Jan 2019, 1:09 pm | #30 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 4,400
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
Quote:
|
|
8th Jan 2019, 2:15 pm | #31 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 4,935
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
That is such a good question and I guess the answer lies as much in human psychology as in any technical consideration. It's at times like these when you can see how the pressure generated via "social media" on teenagers must be immense, not about having the "right" multimeter, but the "right" [blank] where blank could be phone, clothes, friends etc etc.
I've never owned a Fluke, nor anything made by Tek, HP, Weller... the list goes on. In part, it I think this stems from my first day working for Plessey, when that phrase, "Adequate for purpose" hit me between the eyes, and also, the fact that I'm a tight-fisted sod from Yorkshire . B
__________________
Saturn V had 6 million pounds of fuel. It would take thirty thousand strong men to lift it an inch. |
8th Jan 2019, 2:53 pm | #32 |
Pentode
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bedford, Bedfordshire, UK.
Posts: 174
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
Attracted by the name and relative low cost, I bought a Fluke 17B three or four years ago on the basis of some good reviews (perhaps including that of Dave on the EEV site as mentioned by Mark above) and have been very happy with it. It is definitely my "go to" DMM and is in use on the bench every day. It has easily survived the odd tumble. About the only thing I could complain about is that it has an offset of 0.46nF on the capacitance range with nothing connected. But I assume that I have ignored a user instruction to discharge capacitors before measuring and have consequently damaged a component. This is of little consequence as I have alternative LCR meters.
Ian |
8th Jan 2019, 7:01 pm | #33 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Coningsby, Lincolnshire, UK.
Posts: 2,820
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
I’ve been using a Fluke 111 for quite a few years now, it’s been a great meter for me, it does AC/DC current, voltage, resistance, capacitance, probably other things I’ve not used too! Although it’s mainly an autoranging meter, it does have a range selection button, which is useful. It also can measure frequency too. The next model up has an LED backlight, so I’ve populated the parts on the PCB for the backlight control, added some LEDs from a broken iPod screen, drilled a hole in the front case for the button, and now I have the next model up, without having to pay extra! And the backlight is very useful. I wrote up about it over on VRAT a while ago.
The auto power off is annoying sometimes, especially as you have to turn the knob back to off and then back on to get it back on, whereas on other Flukes you can just press the hold button to wake it up. And I did manage to break the knob off once! Fixed it with a length of M3 screw glued into a hole drilled down the centre of the hexagonal shaft that the knob clicks onto. Regards Lloyd |
16th Jan 2019, 10:46 pm | #34 |
Octode
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ventnor, Isle of Wight, & Great Dunmow, Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,377
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
Well, I don't think I've ever put so much thought & research into spending 20 odd quid before!!
It's been very revealing though but I have decided to go for the ZT301 or maybe the Aneng AN860B. Both have similar delivery times from China so I need to work out where I'll be when delivery is likely to occur! Many thanks to everyone who has contributed useful thoughts or advice- it's most appreciated. When I get one or the other, I'll report my experiences of it. All the best Nick |
16th Jan 2019, 11:37 pm | #35 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 18,724
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
Quote:
Initially I was going to spend £30 on the substantial looking AMECaL ST-9905, mainly through watching Big Clive's channel, but further research brought up this thread https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=138122 and Mark's recommendation of the Aneng AN8008 for half the price. What swung it for me was the inclusion of a frequency counter, something I haven't had on a multimeter before, and it will compliment my GOOIT Gy560 50MHz-2.1GHz counter. I ordered it last night.
__________________
-- Graham. G3ZVT |
|
18th Jan 2019, 9:22 am | #36 |
Heptode
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 951
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
Im another one who has been reading these meter threads with great interest, and like Nick have never before spent so much research time on a sub-£20 buy on the slow boat!
Ive gone for the AN860B+ at a haggled down price of £17 inc shipping One of the things that swung it for me was the use of 2xAA rather than the ubiquitous yet comparatively expensive PP3. Using adapter cases, I can use an endless supply of AAAs instead!
__________________
I got food in ma belly and a license for ma telly My Blog - http://g7mrv.blogspot.com |
18th Jan 2019, 9:51 am | #37 |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 2,587
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
Don't forget that you will be liable to pay £3.40 VAT and a customs fee of £8 making a total of £28.40.
Alan |
18th Jan 2019, 11:33 am | #38 |
Triode
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: South Lakeland, Cumbria, UK.
Posts: 47
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
The ANENG AN8008 is currently discounted to £11.84 on one of the usual Chinese website (not sure on the rules as to whether we can provide links).
And also a thank you to Mark from me for providing such a good web resource, not just on cheap multimeters; there is a lot of other really useful well written stuff there. Nick. |
18th Jan 2019, 1:37 pm | #39 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 9,642
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
C3: You may not post links or references to items just because they interest you, though you may respond to a "Sets/Parts Wanted" or "Information Wanted" post by mentioning an eBay item or posting a link to it.
eBay now has competitors of course, the same applies to them. |
23rd Jan 2019, 8:47 pm | #40 | |
Heptode
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 951
|
Re: New multimeter required- specific criteria
Quote:
Mine arrived today, 11 days since ordering, shipped from a known drop-ship warehouse in Middlesex. Im yet to try it out, need to rummage around for a pair of batteries...
__________________
I got food in ma belly and a license for ma telly My Blog - http://g7mrv.blogspot.com |
|