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Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc. |
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7th Feb 2019, 1:06 pm | #1 |
Octode
Join Date: Jun 2018
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Aspect ratio
Hi,
I at the moment, i have an Xbox plugged into a VCR using a HDMI-SCART converter which gives a picture on my TV. However, the picture is either too small and doesnÂ’t fill the screen properly, or too big and i lose the edges of the picture. How do i fix this? I tried changing the aspect ratio on my VCR from 4:3 and 16:9 and even Auto, but nothing changes. IÂ’ve gone through the Xbox which just says about changing the ratio on the TV, which I donÂ’t think i could do on a 70s TV. Any help is appreciated Edit: Could this be moved to the appropriate section if this isn’t the right one, please Thanks |
7th Feb 2019, 2:59 pm | #2 |
Rest in Peace
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Re: Aspect ratio
Sounds to me as though you need to replace your 1970 vintage TV with a modern LCD / LED type.
Al. |
7th Feb 2019, 3:33 pm | #3 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Aspect ratio
Now you know why all those crt sets end up at the recycling depot ! Of course, some
very late crt sets had a 14;9 or 16:9 tube e.g Sony, Philips, B&O |
7th Feb 2019, 3:40 pm | #4 |
Dekatron
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Re: Aspect ratio
... or learn to love the letterbox presentation of a 16:9 picture in a 4:3 screen!
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7th Feb 2019, 3:47 pm | #5 |
Octode
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Re: Aspect ratio
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7th Feb 2019, 3:48 pm | #6 |
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Re: Aspect ratio
Most 4:3 TVs don't know anything about aspect ratios and will just display whatever video is coming in. A few of the later ones will letterbox the video if the SCART widescreen pin is asserted.
The VCR will need to process widescreen video to make it suitable for a 4:3 display, either by letterboxing it or zooming it. Most VCRs can't do this, and the few late models that can often do it in unsatisfactory ways. All you can do is ensure the VCR is recording from a 4:3 rather than 16:9 source, but this is easier said than done nowadays as broadcasters have largely abandoned aspect ratio switching and transmit 4:3 material as pillarboxed 16:9 rather than native 4:3. This looks awful on a 4:3 TV. |
7th Feb 2019, 3:57 pm | #7 | |
Octode
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Re: Aspect ratio
Quote:
Im not much of a lover of the later sets, im more for the 50s - 80s sets. Thanks |
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7th Feb 2019, 3:58 pm | #8 |
Dekatron
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Re: Aspect ratio
My comment about letterboxing was based on the comment in the OP that "the picture is either too small and doesn’t fill the screen properly, or too big and i lose the edges of the picture.", which implies either letterboxing or zooming. Is it possible that the HDMI to SCART converter is converting the output for display on a 4:3 screen? Presumably an unprocessed 16:9 signal displayed on a 4:3 screen would appear squashed horizontally - known colloquially as "squashyvision".
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Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley) Last edited by Dave Moll; 7th Feb 2019 at 4:00 pm. Reason: quote added for clarity |
7th Feb 2019, 3:58 pm | #9 | |
Octode
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Re: Aspect ratio
Quote:
It doesnt bother me too much. Thanks |
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7th Feb 2019, 4:23 pm | #10 | |
Octode
Join Date: Jun 2018
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Re: Aspect ratio
Quote:
I guess my VCR is zooming in usually as the image is cut off around the edges. Although, as im typing i have a film on DVD being played on the Xbox which is in the letterbox picture. I should be getting a second VCR today, so this could possibly help. Its not a huge issue as it only really cuts off a little bit from the sides, but it’d be nice to get it to fit properly. Thanks |
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7th Feb 2019, 4:33 pm | #11 |
Dekatron
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Re: Aspect ratio
I'm wondering if the X Box is the problem? I don't have anything to do with them but I presume that's the video source? Although we have a couple of FS jobs here in Bexhill, I've two 4x3's in my workshop, two in bedrooms and one in the kitchen all with a FV Box source [via a VCR-working or not!]. The aspect ratio can be set via the boxes-no problem. There are members who sometimes obsess about AR correctness to the nth degree but I'm probably a lot less critical than that. I know that some people recommend Play Station Modulators [as well as VCR's] to get a signal into "scart free" sets but you seem to have both in a Daisy Chain unless I'm totally confused
A long time ago, in another arm of the Galaxy, they used to show the occasional 16:9 film to remind us of what we were missing! One Xmas Day it was 2001 A Space Odyssey but with the top and bottom filled in with tinsel. They'd had complaints from a few people who wanted a percentage of the license money back re being "cheated" of the top and bottom of the screen. That was nothing to the uproar the Beeb then faced. Many people were looking forward to seeing Space Odyssey that night. Even a "Christmas" film would be hard to view with such a shiny distraction. I was always delighted with the odd WS epic broadcast and I even put white markers on my 21" Matsui set to remind me of the cinema proportions. They're still there, in Rammy, to this day. Its a secondary set now but showing 16:9 via FV or sometimes 4:3 [for old times sake!] Dave W Last edited by dave walsh; 7th Feb 2019 at 4:39 pm. |
7th Feb 2019, 4:59 pm | #12 |
Dekatron
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Re: Aspect ratio
If the source image is in 16:9 format, there are really only three options for displaying it on a 4:3 screen:
letterbox - in which the 16:9 image is fitted into the squarer display area by inserting black areas above and below zoom - in which the centre 4:3 area of the image fills the display area "squashyvision" - in which the 16:9 image is distorted to fit it into a display area of a different shape If you have the option of either letterbox or zoom, I don't see that you have a problem - or at least not one that can be addressed without obtaining a different-shaped (16:9) screen. I agree that filling the blank areas with anything other than black is distracting - like the out-of-focus repetition of the central image so often shown either side of vertical mobile 'phone footage (one of my many pet hates).
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7th Feb 2019, 5:01 pm | #13 |
Hexode
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Re: Aspect ratio
As an aside; the latest revision of FrankC's hedghog standards converter firmware allows "stretching" of a 16:9 picture presented at it's input, to 5:4 or 4:3 output ratios.
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7th Feb 2019, 5:41 pm | #14 |
Octode
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Re: Aspect ratio
Hi Andy,
Does the H.Hog zoom in and just loose the edges or stretch the picture vertically and give tall thin people? I've just been playing with an HDMI to composite box from Ebay and displaying the output on a Thorn 1500. I can only get 16:9 from my laptop which is displayed, as you would expect, with bands top & bottom. A further problem comes when viewing something that was originally in 4:3 (eg. vintage TV adds from Youtube). You then get bands at the sides as well. What I need to be able to do is to zoom in to get rid of the border all round. Is there any hardware or software that allows this to be done? Cheers Nick |
7th Feb 2019, 6:54 pm | #15 | |
Dekatron
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Re: Aspect ratio
Quote:
Aaron, you mentioned in post #1 that your VHS has an aspect ratio switch, that's quite unusual, but I think I've seen that before, however if I once knew how it worked, I have now forgotten. Anybody?
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7th Feb 2019, 7:45 pm | #16 | |
Octode
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Re: Aspect ratio
Quote:
Some videos, for example, “Queen - Killer Queen Top Of The Pops 1974” has borders all around on a 16:9 screen, making the actual footage 4:3. Theoretically, couldnt these borders be removed giving a full 4:3 screen on the TV screen? Thanks |
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7th Feb 2019, 7:46 pm | #17 |
Dekatron
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Re: Aspect ratio
INH, Exactly what sort of Xbox do you have there? Not the original Xbox as that never had HDMI output, I assume you are talking about some variant of the Xbox 360?
The proprietary video port next to the HDMI output on a 360 can output a range of signals for which you merely have to have the right connecting lead. They were supplied as standard with an analogue 'Component' (YPbPr) video output lead but you can also obtain a 'VGA' lead to connect the 360 to the VGA input on a monitor (or TV which has such a 'PC' input) - that's by far the best connection method to get a crisp, high resolution picture if you happen not to have a display with an HDMI input. You can also get an 'AV' output lead for the Xbox 360 which is your standard definition composite video + stereo audio lead, and that comes with a SCART plug shaped block which has AV sockets on the back and a SCART male on the other face to plug into a TV. This last connection method is the best connection method for your old TV but will waste the image quality available from the Xbox - a lot of in game text will be unreadable on an SD display. |
7th Feb 2019, 7:51 pm | #18 |
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Re: Aspect ratio
Nick, your problem with Youtube 4:3 material is that the digital stream isn't using the native 4:3 AR but is displaying a pillarboxed 4:3 image in a 16:9 frame. As I said earlier, this looks *awful* on 4:3 TVs and there isn't much you can do about it given the standard AR manipulations available. As I said earlier, it's become an increasing problem as broadcasters have avoided the additional costs of AR switching and just broadcast 4:3 as pillarboxed 16:9.
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7th Feb 2019, 7:54 pm | #19 | ||
Octode
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Location: Essex, UK.
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Re: Aspect ratio
Quote:
The photos attached are of the screen when it should’ve changed to the according AR but didnt... Thanks |
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7th Feb 2019, 8:18 pm | #20 | |
Octode
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Essex, UK.
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Re: Aspect ratio
Quote:
I understand that games wont be as high quality, but that doesn't bother me as I don't play them a lot so it's not a issue really. So if I were to use the AV output, would I get a clearer display or the same? Thanks |
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