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Old 25th Mar 2021, 3:00 pm   #1
Bufo Bill
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Default Garrard 401 idler bearing

Hi, I have replaced the top bearing on the idler wheel of my 401, but it is the bottom bearing that is the worst, it is green and gungey. I am not sure what to do about the little black plate riveted to the underside, I could drill out the rivets but am not sure what to replace them with. The last rivets I put in were on a trowel at school over a quarter century ago.
Any thoughts or advice out there?
Cheers from Bill.
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Old 25th Mar 2021, 7:05 pm   #2
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Default Re: Garrard 401 idler bearing

I used the 301 equivalent of this kit on my turntable, very pleased with the results:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Garrard-4...4AAOxyyUtSbEKW
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Old 25th Mar 2021, 8:35 pm   #3
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Default Re: Garrard 401 idler bearing

I got a similar kit about a year ago, but failed to notice there were no rivets, but found some online this afternoon. I guess I could use a blunt punch to round over the end? I have a little planishing hammer I could use . . . I dimly recall using a ball pein hammer or something similar at school. I guess I'm worried the lower half of the assembly looks made from cast metal, not milled. I don't want to whack the piece and have it shatter on me.
Any advice welcome!
Bill.
Thanks for the link @wd40addict

Last edited by Bufo Bill; 25th Mar 2021 at 8:47 pm. Reason: Forgot to say thanks!
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Old 25th Mar 2021, 9:39 pm   #4
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Default Re: Garrard 401 idler bearing

Don't whack the metal! Put a drift in a vice under the rivet's mushroom head and preen the other end over with a centre punch or similar. That way the force is only hitting the rivet.
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Old 25th Mar 2021, 9:54 pm   #5
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Default Re: Garrard 401 idler bearing

Great, many thanks for your help!
Cheers from Bill.
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Old 26th Mar 2021, 8:52 am   #6
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Default Re: Garrard 401 idler bearing

Loricraft was bought by SME in 2018

Craig
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Old 6th Apr 2021, 3:59 pm   #7
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Default Garrard 401 update

Hi guys, I replaced the idler bearings and cleaned and replaced the spindle bearing. The whole thing is a lot quieter, but I have a new problem emerging. The speed is not constant. "A HA" You say, "Oil on the idler!"
However I have cleaned the idler, the pulley, the inside of the rim, and even the spindle, to no avail. I checked the height of the pulley, and made sure the magnet carrier nut was tight. Still no.
I turned the deck to 33, got the fine adjustment as close as I could and looked underneath the table with a torch whilst it was running, and I noticed the speed adjustment lever (where the three springs hold the little nut on the magnet carrier) was "nodding", that is to say, bouncing slightly vertically.

Guys, could this be causing the instability? I was hoping the motor would be okay, but as I am awaiting a 401 Service Kit from
Classichifi-shop.co.uk which replaces bushings and springs amongst other things, should I give the motor a clean whilst I'm in there?
I am hoping it might be sloppy motor suspension, the springs do look a bit worse for wear.
What do you guys think?
Cheers from Bill.
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Old 6th Apr 2021, 10:00 pm   #8
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Default Re: Garrard 401 idler bearing

I didn't have your speed problem, but rather my 301 would take ages to reach 33 from cold. Whilst I was doing the idler bearings I also opened up the motor, cleaned out the old oil, fitted new felts and impregnated the bearings. Very happy with the result, after about 10 mins turntable is up to speed and stays there.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...5&postcount=16

Last edited by wd40addict; 6th Apr 2021 at 10:06 pm.
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 4:55 am   #9
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Default Re: Garrard 401 idler bearing

That sounds to me like the idler is running on the speed steps of the motor drive wheel/hub. You have to unscrew the grub screw and adjust the height of the wheel/hub until the idler wheel is riding as close as you get to the centre of the land that represents the speed you require. My explanation sounds way harder than doing the job. It's caused by the motor grommets after years of use are lower than they were when the old idler was originally fitted.

Joe
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 10:27 am   #10
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Default Re: Garrard 401 idler bearing

I'm following this thread with interest. My 401 runs ok, holds a speed as such, but there's a cyclical 'notch' in the speed as identified by the stroboscope. Any ideas? Sorry to jump in, but I see similarities with what has already been discussed.
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 10:36 am   #11
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Default Re: Garrard 401 idler bearing

Mine is bang on without adjustment for 33 and 45. At 78 it needs a slight readjustment.

I bought a retrofit strobe https://keystrobe.co.uk/product/keys...lightbeam-301/ which is the right colour, but with clock control and a shorter illumination cycle, so the divisions are crystal clear and not blurred.

I have of course retained the original neon module, carefully put away.

Craig
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 11:58 am   #12
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Default Re: Garrard 401 idler bearing

Hi, thanks to all who responded.
Joe, thanks for that idea, will have a play around later on.
I did find a "fault" with the spindle bearing, in that some oil had leaked out from the bottom gasket. On inspection, one of the screws was a quarter turn loose. We still have a little "wavering" of the strobe, but no slipping anymore.
Thanks for those links wd40addict and Craig.
Steve, could there be a flat spot or a hard spot on your idler?
Cheers from Bill
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 1:52 pm   #13
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Default Re: Garrard 401 idler bearing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bufo Bill View Post
Hi, thanks to all who responded.
Joe, thanks for that idea, will have a play around later on.
I did find a "fault" with the spindle bearing, in that some oil had leaked out from the bottom gasket. On inspection, one of the screws was a quarter turn loose. We still have a little "wavering" of the strobe, but no slipping anymore.
Thanks for those links wd40addict and Craig.
Steve, could there be a flat spot or a hard spot on your idler?
Cheers from Bill
Bill, I've replaced the idler, no difference..
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 2:05 pm   #14
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Default Re: Garrard 401 idler bearing

Steve, sorry to hear that. It happened to me with my original idler wheel, at some point during the years it was mothballed the idler had clearly come into contact with the platter rim, and where it contacted went very hard.
Did you service your motor? I feel a little nervous about this myself, never done a motor before!
Hope you find a solution, I will keep you informed, and maybe you could do the same?
Cheers from Bill.
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 2:13 pm   #15
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Default Re: Garrard 401 idler bearing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bufo Bill View Post
Steve, sorry to hear that. It happened to me with my original idler wheel, at some point during the years it was mothballed the idler had clearly come into contact with the platter rim, and where it contacted went very hard.
Did you service your motor? I feel a little nervous about this myself, never done a motor before!
Hope you find a solution, I will keep you informed, and maybe you could do the same?
Cheers from Bill.
No, I've never serviced a 401 motor. Perhaps that's what I should do. That wobbling magnet interested me though, that could be the cause maybe, or at least a component in a series of events that are causing the fault.

Forgive me if the answer is in earlier posts but is there a set of instructions to service the 401?
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 8:03 pm   #16
Craig Sawyers
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Default Re: Garrard 401 idler bearing

The diameter of the idler is actually irrelevant. The only important things are the diameter of drive pulley and the inside diameter of the rim. The rotation speed of the motor, and the ratio of diameters set the platter rotation rate.

So if the idler is not circular it should make no difference, apart from making a mechanical noise.
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 9:15 pm   #17
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Default Re: Garrard 401 idler bearing

Steve, for £1.99 there is this:-
https://www.service-data.com/search....&search=Search
I have not downloaded the above version so I cannot comment on it.
I linked to a document available on another website but I'm not sure it's any different.

Last edited by Bufo Bill; 7th Apr 2021 at 9:25 pm. Reason: link removed.
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Old 8th Apr 2021, 8:13 am   #18
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Default Re: Garrard 401 idler bearing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bufo Bill View Post
Steve, for £1.99 there is this:-
https://www.service-data.com/search....&search=Search
I have not downloaded the above version so I cannot comment on it.
I linked to a document available on another website but I'm not sure it's any different.
Thanks Bill. I may well purchase that but I'm just wondering if manufacturer's service data from half a century ago will cover what a 401 may need today in terms of long term faults and problems, tips etc. I'm sure lots of it, dismantling etc will be very relevant. Mine holds a speed 'perfectly' apart from a cyclical blip that for all the world looks like an idler flat - I've changed it - or a stiff spot somewhere, somehow.
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Old 13th Apr 2021, 8:11 pm   #19
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Default Re: Garrard 401 idler bearing

So, I found a kit of parts to service flagging springs etc which seemed to go well, and I am now at the point of putting oil into the spindle bearing, having changed the thrust plate and bearing for one with an integral rubber seal. How much oil do you guys put into the spindle housing? I have replaced the woollen spindle washer and know to thoroughly soak this with oil, but not sure how full to fill the housing. Full to the brim? Enough to be sure the bearing and spindle base are bathed in oil? Or am I over thinking this totally?
Cheers from Bill.
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Old 14th Apr 2021, 12:55 pm   #20
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Default Re: Garrard 401 idler bearing

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
Thanks Bill. I may well purchase that but I'm just wondering if manufacturer's service data from half a century ago will cover what a 401 may need today in terms of long term faults and problems, tips etc. I'm sure lots of it, dismantling etc will be very relevant. Mine holds a speed 'perfectly' apart from a cyclical blip that for all the world looks like an idler flat - I've changed it - or a stiff spot somewhere, somehow.
Out of interest, have you confirmed this behaviour with a separate strobe disc?

The reason I ask is that I remember driving myself half mad with a similar issue years ago on a much cheaper turntable. Turned out it must have been a machining issue on the strobe markings as it was fine with a separate strobe disc or a test LP/W&F meter!
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