UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Amateur and Military Radio

Notices

Vintage Amateur and Military Radio Amateur/military receivers and transmitters, morse, and any other related vintage comms equipment.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 21st Aug 2018, 11:27 am   #1
bc312
Pentode
 
bc312's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Longfield, Kent, UK.
Posts: 239
Default Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

I have read this thread with interest.:-

Firstly let me explain that I am not a radio amateur, but have always respected this element of the radio hobby.
Having recently purchased an SDRplay RSP2pro SDR receiver, I have had occasion to listen across the 2m band (using a 2m antenna) and have been surprised at how little amateur activity there is. What I have heard are transmissions between two people which sound like CB calls - there is no exchange of call sign. I'm just wondering that with the proliferation of cheap 2m transceiver handhelds - just look on eBay, that unlicensed operators are using the 2m band like a CB band. Interestingly, few, if any sellers seem to indicate that a licence is required in the UK to operate these handhelds; and how much are illegal transmissions policed these days? I stand to be corrected if anything I've said is incorrect, but am interested to hear what others have to say.

Mike
__________________
Leave me alone - I know what I'm doing.

BVWS member, EUG, G-QRP
Radio Bygones/Radiophile

Last edited by Station X; 21st Aug 2018 at 11:36 am. Reason: Post moved to new thread.
bc312 is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 12:47 pm   #2
Restoration73
Nonode
 
Restoration73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK.
Posts: 2,801
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

As a licensee, the current regulations are somewhat relaxed regarding identification,
but normally call signs are given at start and end of the contact; but note that analogue
FM and SSB telephony are dying out anyway and being replaced by digital modes.
Restoration73 is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 1:01 pm   #3
Scimitar
Heptode
 
Scimitar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Gloucestershire, UK.
Posts: 719
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

Quote:
FM and SSB telephony are dying out anyway and being replaced by digital modes.
In your dreams maybe! I had a fiddle with digital on a 7100 Icom and it just left me cold. Digital is an option, but the spirit of Amateur radio is and will always be analogue.
Scimitar is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 1:08 pm   #4
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 11,484
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

Agreed, I will not be buying digital AR equipment.
SiriusHardware is online now  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 1:16 pm   #5
Steve G4WCS
Heptode
 
Steve G4WCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 632
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

interestingly, Ive just been out to the car, and had a nice chat on FM with 2 operators /portable up Pen-y-Ghent in the yourkshire Dales, there were quite a few operators calling in. I think nowadays operation is in more isolated bubbles for want of a better term, but it is there, going up the hills is the way forward
Steve G4WCS is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 1:21 pm   #6
G8BBZ
Pentode
 
G8BBZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 199
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

Hi mike,
Your experience of 2m. is not unusual - I think this is pretty much the picture nationwide. You might find a little more activity on simplex or repeaters during the morning and evening commute when folk get on the air to pass the time in traffic. And don't forget the Tuesday evening Activity periods on the various VHF/UHF bands - these can be quite busy on occasion.
Small, local groups of operators using the band as a private chat channel is also not unusual - perhaps the availability of cheap handhelds has spurred growth in this area. And no, I don't suppose all of them are licenced. Similarly digital radio, with all of the selctive calling capabilities and closed user groups which seem to be a major selling point are also to blame for the lack of CQ calls.
Like others here, I am not likely to ever operate digital radio - it is the self-training aspect of the hobby which is of interest to me, not operating something very similar to a smartphone. In fact, I am going backwards and seek to operate an all-valve multi-band VHF station AM/FM/SSB rather than select items from an on-screen menu.
Keep listening!
cheers
__________________
Peter G8BBZ
G8BBZ is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 2:20 pm   #7
David G4EBT
Dekatron
 
David G4EBT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cottingham, East Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 5,737
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

As to announcing callsigns, Section 2, Note 13 of the licence states:

The licensee shall ensure that:

a) The station is clearly identifiable at all times.
b) The callsign shall be transmitted as frequently as is practicable unless the specific requirements of Note (g) in Schedule 1 of this Licence apply.
c) The callsign is given in voice or other appropriate format consistent with the mode of operation.

I guess that whether or not they comply, most would interpret 'as frequently as is practicable' to mean at the end of every 'over', but for some time now, many amateurs don't have 'overs' in the traditional sense - they talk as they would on the phone - they have a conversation, not a five minute monologue than back to the other party

Note (g) of schedule 1 states:

a) that where licensees operate in a 'net' (network) they are only required to give their callsigns when joining or leaving the net

b) subject to note (c) they will not be required to transmit the station callsign when making contact with other participants.

c)where the licensee's transmissions are other than in speech mode for at least 15 minutes, the licensee shall next he transmits in speech.

As to transmissions 'sounding like CB' for decades now, you can't see the join - he only difference is the price of the shop-bought equipment.

There's no requirement for sellers to indicate that a licence must be held to operate amateur radio equipment. There is no law to prevent anyone buying, selling and owning any amateur radio equipment. All that the law requires is that anyone who uses such equipment must hold a licence appropriate to that equipment, and must operate in in accordance with the terms and limitations of the licence.

Illegal transmissions aren't policed - Ofcom's main efforts are in policing powerful illegal broadcast stations which abound in all major cities. Ofcom have occasionally acted on complaints about repeater jamming, and back when they issued statistics of prosecutions in their Annual Reports, Most prosecutions concerning abuse of the amateur bands was not by pirates - it was by licensed radio amateurs. ('In-Band' interference is not a priority of Ofcom, who only have a small enforcement team).

Both Ofcom (or rather it's predecessor the Radiocommunications Agency) and most amateurs had a poor understanding of the terms of the licence. A common myth was that 'we aren't allowed to talk about politics or religion', which was nonsense. Whilst few amateurs may wish to discuss such topics - which are unlikely to generate rational sensible debate - all that the licence stated was that we were not allow to send messages that were 'for, on behalf of, or for the benefit of, any religious, political or commercial organisation'.

When the licence was reviewed and updated in 2005, 'Messages' was clarified by Ofcom and now states that:

'The licensee shall be permitted to use the Radio Equipment to discuss any topics of mutual interest with other amateurs and to seek, receive and impart any information and ideas'.

As to activity levels, I've been licensed for 44 years but have not been on air for 15 years - it was making me old before my time, so I sold all my equipment and dismantled my aerials. Even back then, though there were 22 amateurs listed in my village (only two of whom I knew), and more than 200 in a fifteen mile radius, 2M & 70cm was dead as a dodo.

Ironically, the more bands and modes that there are (just as the more TV channels there are), those few who are active, will be spread thinly over the bands and modes, though may settle down to their favoured band and mode, or will gravitate to certain bands when propagation conditions are favourable.

Seems to me that the 'new' modes are simply a marketing ploy for manufacturers and dealers to try to stimulate a stagnant and declining market.
__________________
David.
BVWS Member.
G-QRP Club member 1339.
David G4EBT is online now  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 4:19 pm   #8
Biggles
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hexham, Northumberland, UK.
Posts: 2,234
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

I haven't noticed any illegal operators on 2 Metres around these parts. Most seem well versed in the proper procedures, identifying themselves correctly etc. I guess any rogue operators would be sussed out by seasoned local call-sign holders pretty quickly, except maybe those using low power handhelds in remote locations. The foundation licence is fairly straightforward nowadays and none of the authorities seem very keen to chase illegal operators down anyway, unless they happen to be causing a nuisance to say the emergency services, but that is very unlikely nowadays due to everything having migrating to a digital platform in recent years. The emergence of PMR446 and business radio licences seems to have taken the edge off needing to be someone "special" before being allowed a radio transmitter. Remember you used to have to have a licence for CB, radio control models and even metal locators. All this has been relaxed. I for one probably sound a little bit different when on amateur radio as I still have a habit of saying "over" after contacts and "out" at the end of the contact instead of the usual amateur speak as it were. This is down to spending a lot of time on PMR systems and in control rooms etc. So in that case I may well sound like a rogue operator at times. Horses for courses. The main thing is to keep the bands in use, or their is a real risk of losing them to some commercial operation. We are very lucky we have such a wide choice of bands to use at no real cost.
Alan.
Biggles is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 6:39 pm   #9
G4YVM David
Heptode
 
G4YVM David's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Salisbury, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 998
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

Hang and para glider pilots use 2m freely. It is more or less accepted (as a fait accompli must be)

Useag depends where you are.
G4YVM David is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 6:57 pm   #10
Jon_G4MDC
Nonode
 
Jon_G4MDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Welwyn Garden City, Hertfordshire, UK.
Posts: 2,013
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

That is strange David_YVM, the balloon aeronauts have reserved Air Band frequencies - which can be interesting when one is in the vicinity.

One would have thought those guys fit in the same category. Else, if they are radio pirates, maybe their aero licence is the same?

David_G4EBT - long post. Thinking on it. It touches some veins..

Last edited by Jon_G4MDC; 21st Aug 2018 at 7:07 pm. Reason: cogitating
Jon_G4MDC is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 7:12 pm   #11
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 11,484
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G4YVM David View Post
Hang and para glider pilots use 2m freely
Ironically, WE are not allowed to use amateur radio in airborne vehicles, at all.

We can operate from ships, but technically we have to seek the permission of the ship's master, and most of the time I think it's safe to say he or she will have more important things to do than grant -me- an audience.
SiriusHardware is online now  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 7:16 pm   #12
Jon_G4MDC
Nonode
 
Jon_G4MDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Welwyn Garden City, Hertfordshire, UK.
Posts: 2,013
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

Good point.
So how does it work with the High Altitude Balloon lot and 434(ish) MHz telemetry...
Frequency approximate ..
Jon_G4MDC is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 7:25 pm   #13
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 11,484
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

70cms is not actually a primary amateur band, we are just one of the secondary users, as any radio amateur who lives on or around the North York Moors will know.

As well as us, there are certain other allowed secondary uses of the band, the best known of which is 433.920Mhz which most car remote locking fobs, garage door openers, remote weather station sensors and wireless burglar alarms, to name a few, use.

So perhaps the frequency you (don't exactly) mention is officially sanctioned for weather / experimental balloon use?
SiriusHardware is online now  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 7:53 pm   #14
Jon_G4MDC
Nonode
 
Jon_G4MDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Welwyn Garden City, Hertfordshire, UK.
Posts: 2,013
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

That is a good explanation + thanks.

The NY Moors are well known for 70cm and I should have remembered that angle.
I can natter on about intruders and their QRGs on that band but that would be off topic.
It was a drift away from topic to begin with.

On 2m, as I listen at my place these days, (posted in another thread), I hear the 11m simplex practice from the 1980/90's, some analogue repeaters doing mostly beacon callsigns, and some 'orrible noises - that will be DMR/DStar/Fusion or else it could be the evil SMPS from the fridge - they sound so similar.
Jon_G4MDC is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 8:29 pm   #15
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 11,484
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

I wish separate portions of the two metre band were allocated for digital working and analogue working.

I have all of my 'boxes' programmed with all of the 12.5Khz spaced repeater channels, and object when a scan through them is halted by a wall of noise being transmitted on a previously analogue only channel.

One of those radios (My Yaesu FT90R mobile) has a nice feature where you can temporarily drop a channel from the scan list just by pushing a button while the scan is halted on the offending / unwanted signal. On the rest of my black boxes I have to go into the menus and set that channel to 'skip', a change which I rarely remember to undo afterwards.
SiriusHardware is online now  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 10:25 pm   #16
GSBX1220
Pentode
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Glasgow, Scotland,UK.
Posts: 127
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

2m here seems dead. I'm looking to get back into this after more than 12 years off the bands, and how quiet 2 is has astounded me. Even the local repeater GB3CS which was once buzzing s new dead.
What is also noticeable is that the RT procedres used seem to me a bit casual. I listened to a couple of MM6 stations and no call signs given until end of the QSO and at the end of each over, there was no out, over or any handover given.

Maybe I'm just getting old!
GSBX1220 is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 11:41 pm   #17
G0HZU_JMR
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, UK.
Posts: 3,077
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David G4EBT View Post
As to activity levels, I've been licensed for 44 years but have not been on air for 15 years - it was making me old before my time, so I sold all my equipment and dismantled my aerials.
I came to the same conclusion when I was about 25! I'd pretty much had enough by then and I didn't think it was a healthy hobby. My class A log book only reached about six pages before I saw the light and stopped. I still occasionally used 2m for rally 'talk in' help and still went to rallies for many years after this but my serious operating days were over a long time ago. I've still got lots of old radios especially 2m radios and I do listen now and again but I don't transmit. Most of what I hear today on 2m could have been recorded and replayed from >30 years ago. It's the same old stuff but there is just less of it.

After seeing this thread, I had a listen tonight on 2m and there was a 'Phoenix net' on 145.575MHz and it just sounded like something reheated from 1985. The scary thing is the same people probably go on that net and say the same stuff every time it is held.

When I was a student I can remember being totally besotted with the (very pretty and exotic looking) 2m multimode mobile radios of the mid 1980s and I do still have a few classics here. Eg the Yaesu FT290R mk1, Standard C58, and the Trio/Kenwood TR9130. But I've never transmitted with the FT290R or the TR9130 and I didn't even buy a mike for the TR9130. But I do still like the look of them and they always remind me of younger days when I was first introduced to the 2m band I have a few more 2m radios here but nothing as nice as these ones listed above. I used the TR9130 this evening to listen to that net on 145.575MHz. As usual there was nothing happening on the repeaters. I think the whole band could be shrunk to just 500kHz and it would still probably be too much for this area. It might be different in London though?
__________________
Regards, Jeremy G0HZU

Last edited by G0HZU_JMR; 21st Aug 2018 at 11:51 pm.
G0HZU_JMR is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2018, 7:03 am   #18
dsergeant
Octode
 
dsergeant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire,UK.
Posts: 1,169
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

I still have and use the FT290 I got in the 1980s, it works great. What struck me when looking for a modern replacement (multi-mode) is that there ain't any. They are all FM only and most of them handhelds that can't be permanently run from a shack supply. My 290 has been powered up for most of those 40 years.... it just sits on our club net frequency, which these days is deserted apart from the club net time and by another group some miles away. Occasionally have one or two SSB QSOs in contests and even rarer on CW - but have no straight key to plug into it (a bit strange for somebody who is otherwise an HF cw QRPer...).

Somebody above mentioned DMR (not to be confused with DRM, Digital Radio Mondiale, which seems to have died). A few of our club members are very enthusiastic about that and see it the future of amateur radio. They are even suggesting taking the club net onto there. I see it as a huge network of repeaters which are internet linked and the challenge of talking to a local repeater half a mile away is hardly a challenge in my view. And it moves everybody onto modes invisible to the general public, hidden by a nasty digital mush, and in some cases secret codes to access. You can imagine I am not very popular among our club members since I refuse adamantly to get involved (which would involve buying one of those cheap nasty handhelds..).

Back on topic, activity on 2m in all modes has dropped hugely. There is even a letter in the latest RadCom about it with a reply by the RSGB VHF manager indicating they are somewhat worried about it.

73 Dave G3YMC
dsergeant is online now  
Old 22nd Aug 2018, 8:32 am   #19
G4YVM David
Heptode
 
G4YVM David's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Salisbury, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 998
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

I agree with you vis a vis DMR. It makes amateur radio even more hidden and esoteric.

What vhf needs is 1750hz tones reinstating as the access tone to repeaters (of course it also requires repeaters and whos paying for those??) and multi mode vhf rigs. Licence regs of yore helped, but thats not coming back.

A new version of the TR9000 or FT480R is what is needed but I cant see anyone makingnone soon. I am surprised, genuinely, that the chinese makers havent taken this market opportunity. A niche market with zero competition...
G4YVM David is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2018, 9:34 am   #20
lesmw0sec
Octode
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Carmel, Llannerchymedd, Anglesey, UK.
Posts: 1,498
Default Re: Users of 2 metre Amateur Band?

I find 2M to be like the bus service. Some times nobody is there and at other times everyone & his uncle pops up!
lesmw0sec is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:18 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.