UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Amateur and Military Radio

Notices

Vintage Amateur and Military Radio Amateur/military receivers and transmitters, morse, and any other related vintage comms equipment.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 17th Aug 2014, 7:35 am   #1
Restoration73
Nonode
 
Restoration73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK.
Posts: 2,801
Default CB Radio Use

Split from this thread: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=108486

Note that AM and SSB operation is now permitted on 27MHz
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/con...014/statement/
Restoration73 is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2014, 12:49 am   #2
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 11,484
Default Re: Various CB equipment FOC

Specifically, only on the 40 pan-European 27Mhz CEPT channels (otherwise sometimes called Mid-Band or the 'EU 40').

By allowing AM / SSB on these 40 frequencies (only) the UK government brings us into line with Europe.
SiriusHardware is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2014, 9:01 am   #3
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,953
Default Re: Various CB equipment FOC

And the equipment has to be EU Type Approved: so no digging out your old 1970s/1980s American AM/SSB radios and 8-foot Firestik antennas.
G6Tanuki is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2014, 6:30 pm   #4
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 11,484
Default Re: Various CB equipment FOC

A lot of the currently available generation of type-approved CB radios (typically those with 'Plus' or 'Multi' on the end of the model name) already have AM as well as FM, because it was already a permitted mode in some European countries (and now also here, but only on the EU channels) - so in theory you can go ahead and use the AM mode on those radios here now as long as you stick to the EU 40.

Old-school 'original' 40-channel AM radios like the Midland 4001 mentioned earlier will continue to be illegal to use even though they use a now approved mode on already legal channels. They are not type approved.

Legal SSB operation certainly will have to wait for the arrival of type approved radios - there's no chance of dusting off an old Cobra 148 or Ham International Concorde II and using it legally, I'm afraid.
SiriusHardware is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2014, 12:15 am   #5
Techman
Dekatron
 
Techman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lincolnshire, UK.
Posts: 4,985
Default Re: Various CB equipment FOC

There's a lot of interest in this old CB radio stuff these days - the immediate interest (compared with 'some' other threads) on this thread shows this. I suspect there's a lot of people on this forum that have a CB radio past, but are ashamed to admit it! Infact, I know there are others who have mentioned things in posts with regards to CB radio who haven't commented on this thread, but definitely have a 'CB past'.

I was given an old Barracuda by a neighbour a year or so back. He'd had it on a shelf in his garage collecting dust for a few years. It turned out that he'd got it from another neighbour and intended to use it on a boat he had but never got round to fitting it. The Barracuda is quite a good set and I believe it uses the large Cybernet board as used in the larger Rotel etc. as mentioned earlier. It has mic and rf gain as well as +/- tune and a tone control for rx, also a dimmer control for the readout. I remember my younger brother bought one of these Barracudas brand new back in the day and I think he got it from Halfords. My set was very dirty, but still had the original mic and bracket - the mic even had its hanging clip. A couple of weeks later he found the original instruction book for it and passed it to me over the hedge. The radio cleaned up really well and is in good condition and looks like it has never had the covers off - and so far, neither have I.

Being given this set by the neighbour got me interested again, so I looked on-line and was very surprised to find that there was a lot of interest in CB stuff, with it selling well on auction sites etc. This then got me remembering that I still had all my old CB radio gear boxed away in the loft. so I 'found' it all again and infact I've fitted a shelf up in my 'play/radio room' especially for it all - so it can now be yet more stuff to collect loads of dust! As luck would have it, I'd still got some old aerials, so I fitted a small bottom loaded whip on a bracket on the TV aerial, with a bit of ground plane hanging down made from a bit of an old FM radio aerial, and it works surprisingly well.

As this is a 'for sale' thread, it would perhaps be best not to start a major discussion on CB radio on here, so perhaps someone may like to start a thread in an appropriate section. I'm not sure which section would be best, as there's several possible choices, ie, Vintage radio domestic - well, I suppose it's 'domestic', and they're now vintage? Vintage amateur? General houshold etc. etc.?

The other thing about CB radios is, of course, that the very early (and possibly the most interesting ones) were, and are, strictly speaking, illegal - but I would also point out that they're probably no more illegal than the pantry transmitters that most people on here talk about and use all the time anyway.

As a last point, I notice that there are a lot of new CB radios being sold, which would suggest that there's a good market for them still and a (maybe) new generation interested - a bit like the interest in record players, although the interest in record players must be a lot less than CB radio as, unlike CB radios, no one is making replacement high output cartridges for these record players anymore.

Last edited by Techman; 19th Aug 2014 at 12:21 am.
Techman is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2014, 9:03 am   #6
russell_w_b
Dekatron
 
russell_w_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK.
Posts: 3,684
Default Re: CB Radio Use

CB radio was as much a social phoenomenon as it was an introduction (or another facet) to radio: it was the 'Facebook' of its day, but less distant and more intimate. Lasting friendships were made and relationships forged because of it.

For the majority, it did what it said on the tin. For others, it acted as a catalyst to progress further with radio as a hobby, or, ultimately, as a profession. The magic was there; not dulled by the ubiquity of mobile telephones.

In general, it was a fun time. But it was 'of its time' and will never be the same again.
__________________
Regds,

Russell W. B.
G4YLI.
russell_w_b is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2014, 9:13 am   #7
mark pirate
Dekatron
 
mark pirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
Posts: 5,185
Default Re: CB Radio Use

I still use my CB equipment occasionally, it is much better nowadays as the channels are much quieter and devoid of all the idiots and dead keyers that plagued it back in it's heyday.

Mark
mark pirate is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2014, 9:15 am   #8
russell_w_b
Dekatron
 
russell_w_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK.
Posts: 3,684
Default Re: CB Radio Use

It's certainly popular with 'tin-tenters', and farmers regard it as a very useful tool indeed.
__________________
Regds,

Russell W. B.
G4YLI.
russell_w_b is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2014, 11:28 am   #9
Junk Box Nick
Octode
 
Junk Box Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 1,571
Default Re: CB Radio Use

I well remember the days of illegal CB and the huge upsurge seemed to coincide with a good period in the sunspot cycle which was favourable for 27MHz. My neighbour of the time got himself a rig and a stick, and knowing I was a licensed amateur, did try a bit of mild winding up, assuming that I represented the self-righteous strictly legal brigade.

I explained about the ham band allocation 'next door' and that I had the capability to use full legal on 28MHz and told him to be careful when I was about as his front-end might melt.
Junk Box Nick is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2014, 6:48 pm   #10
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 11,484
Default Re: Various CB equipment FOC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techman View Post
I suspect there's a lot of people on this forum that have a CB radio past, but are ashamed to admit it!
.
Honestly, why would that be? I was an electronics enthusiast first (from about age 10) and always fascinated by transmitters - the traditional path from there would have been into amateur radio, but my first job was in the workshop of a radio and TV shop where they got, among other things, CB radios to fix - so my interest in radio went that way instead.

By ten years later, CB had degenerated into a sorry state, plagued by music players and bad language and other social problems so like many 'serious' CB radio people I jumped sideways to amateur radio. However, I kept my collection of 1980s CB radios and was eventuallly rewarded for that by UK CB going licence - free in 2006, which meant that I could dust off my old radios (all UK legal types) and use them legally from time to time.

I go to the north west coast of Scotland or the inner / outer hebrides at least once a year, and one of my small pleasures is to look through my collection and select one to take with me - being that far to the north west places some parts of the Southeast UK within Sporadic 'E' propagation range so it's rare for me not to make a few long distance inter-UK contacts - using only four watts, by the way - while I am up there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techman View Post
The Barracuda is quite a good set and I believe it uses the large Cybernet board as used in the larger Rotel etc. as mentioned earlier.
Yes, that has a Cybernet 134 chassis as well. All the radios using that chassis are decent, although the very basic ones which just have volume / squelch / channel select often lack a receive filter stage which is fitted in the 'high end' models. Radios with that chassis are still held in very high regard and still change hands for surprisingly high prices, although certain makes / models are desired more than others (strange, when they all use the same chassis!).

The one thing most people don't like about them is the heavy 'bok' from the speaker when the receiver goes from being squelched to not squelched and vise versa - there's a simple mod which makes the squelch transition silent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techman View Post
The other thing about CB radios is, of course, that the very early (and possibly the most interesting ones) were, and are, strictly speaking, illegal - but I would also point out that they're probably no more illegal than the pantry transmitters that most people on here talk about and use all the time anyway.
There I must respectfully disagree - both are absolutely illegal in the eyes of the law, although low-power AM pantry transmitters are much less powerful, and much less likely to bother anyone else.

The original illegal sets are not only still illegal to use but illegal to even possess, even now. This is partly because they were all illegally imported originally and import duty was never paid on them (which makes them still liable to immediate seizure), and partly because they don't meet any UK or European technical specification even when they are used on legal channels and a legal mode on those channels.

The only ones exempt from these draconian conditions are those few which were presented, converted to amateur frequencies, for certification by the DTi or whatever Ofcom were called then during an 'amnesty' which lasted several years. If you have one of those complete with its official certificate, you can still use it on amateur frequencies, as long as you also hold an amateur licence of course.
SiriusHardware is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2014, 7:16 pm   #11
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 11,484
Default Re: Various CB equipment FOC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techman View Post
A couple of weeks later he found the original instruction book for it and passed it to me over the hedge.
I forget to mention, one of the nice things about CB radio user manuals was that they nearly always had the circuit diagram and sometimes even the board layout in the back pages. I could even read them in those days. Nowadays, I have to photocopy them up to A3 size and hold them under a nice bright light.
SiriusHardware is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2014, 7:34 pm   #12
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,953
Default Re: Various CB equipment FOC

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
I forget to mention, one of the nice things about CB radio user manuals was that they nearly always had the circuit diagram and sometimes even the board layout in the back pages. I could even read them in those days. Nowadays, I have to photocopy them up to A3 size and hold them under a nice bright light.
That might have been so for US-style CB-radio manuals - alas those of us restricted to UK FM "CB27/81" stuff had to learn the skills of photo-replication to work out just what-went-where.

Plessey in the very-early-1980s developed a divider/multiplier PLL chip which - with a few DIL-switch-and-resistor pulldowns - provided pretty much any US/EU/UK CB channelisation, along with a 10.240MHz source for the second-conversion-to-460-or-so-KHz.

Sadly this never really took off.
G6Tanuki is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2014, 10:28 pm   #13
Techman
Dekatron
 
Techman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lincolnshire, UK.
Posts: 4,985
Default Re: Various CB equipment FOC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techman View Post
The other thing about CB radios is, of course, that the very early (and possibly the most interesting ones) were, and are, strictly speaking, illegal - but I would also point out that they're probably no more illegal than the pantry transmitters that most people on here talk about and use all the time anyway.
Quote from SiriusHardware:-
"There I must respectfully disagree - both are absolutely illegal in the eyes of the law, although low-power AM pantry transmitters are much less powerful, and much less likely to bother anyone else."

Hi SiriusHardware, I think you've not understood or read this part of my post correctly (easily done). The fact that they are both illegal is exactly what I'm saying - so we ARE in agreement. Just thought I'd better make that clear

Anyway, all interesting stuff from everyone. Russell has it in a nut-shell in his post. It was the 'Facebook' of the day (as it happens, I have not progressed onto Facebook at this time, but never say never). My brother met his wife through CB radio and getting on for thirty years later and two grown up children, they're still happily married. He has never gone back to CB radio though. Also, it's true that it was of its time and it seemed like it would never end, but it did, and as you say, it can never be the same again.

Mark, you're right, it is a lot better now, but there are still some 'silly' people out there playing the odd bit of music etc. The thing is, there's 'sillyness' in all things - the net, the street, the roads, like anything, you have to be a little bit broad minded and if all else fails, then there's always the on/off switch.

I hadn't realised that there was no need for a licence anymore until a couple of years ago, I was so out of touch! Just how much fun can you have with (as in the case of that for sale thread) free equipment where you can transmit and talk to anyone you can hear or who can hear you and just talk in a normal way, just the same as you would face to face - you just have to be aware that anyone else that happens to be within range can hear you too. I can't say I hadn't checked out the CB band at odd times over the years as my Dynatron radiogram goes down to (or up to) 10 and 11 (28-27 MHz) and I've kept a little old 40ch FM hand held with a set of batteries in and have heard the odd person in the distance at odd times.

Sirius - you'll have to tell us about that squelch mod, although it seems a shame to mess with an un-touched radio.
Techman is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2014, 10:45 pm   #14
Biggles
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hexham, Northumberland, UK.
Posts: 2,234
Default Re: CB Radio Use

Nowt wrong with CB radio, it was a very handy way of keeping in touch with your mates before the advent of mobile phones. Every farmer's kid had one in their car and a lot more had one in their house. I was just leaving school age when it all became popular in the early eighties. The enhanced propagation conditions at the time undoubtedly added to the craze. I repaired many a blown RFPA or front end for friends at the time. Unfortunately when it all became legal and you could buy them in the high street the whole thing was spoiled with idiots playing music and swearing etc on them. Why didn't they have a transmit time out timer? The quarry not far away from me still uses CB for comms between the plant and the lorries arriving for loading. PMR446 seems quite popular among the farming/country sports people nowadays rather than CB.
Biggles is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2014, 11:04 pm   #15
Techman
Dekatron
 
Techman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lincolnshire, UK.
Posts: 4,985
Default Re: CB Radio Use

Well said about those early days, Biggles!
Techman is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2014, 2:04 am   #16
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 11,484
Default Re: Various CB equipment FOC

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
I forget to mention, one of the nice things about CB radio user manuals was that they nearly always had the circuit diagram and sometimes even the board layout in the back pages. I could even read them in those days. Nowadays, I have to photocopy them up to A3 size and hold them under a nice bright light
Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
That might have been so for US-style CB-radio manuals - alas those of us restricted to UK FM "CB27/81" stuff had to learn the skills of photo-replication to work out just what-went-where.
Not sure whether you mean they didn't tend to have the layout in, or didn't have the layout OR the diagram in. I can assure you the vast majority of user manuals for UK radios did include at least a circuit diagram, and often a layout diagram as well. I have a large collection of copies of such diagrams - that's where they all came from (from user manuals that customers brought in with their radios).

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
Plessey in the very-early-1980s developed a divider/multiplier PLL chip which - with a few DIL-switch-and-resistor pulldowns - provided pretty much any US/EU/UK CB channelisation, along with a 10.240MHz source for the second-conversion-to-460-or-so-KHz.

Sadly this never really took off.
It didn't take off because the regulatory authorities did not want it to be at all possible to take radios out of band just by changing the binary code going to the PLL IC - something which was indeed possible and widely exploited on 'export' radios which used unrestricted PLL ICs like the PLL02A.

All the second-generation PLL ICs (Like the LC7136 / LC7137 commonly used in UK legal chassis) had built-in 'acceptable' code tables - feed them with a disallowed binary or BCD code and they would just jump to channel 9 (nominally the emergency channel) on the assumption that the radio might have been horribly mangled in a crash.
SiriusHardware is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2014, 2:23 am   #17
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 11,484
Default Re: Various CB equipment FOC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techman View Post
Sirius - you'll have to tell us about that squelch mod, although it seems a shame to mess with an un-touched radio.
The famous Cybernet 'bok' was caused by the fact that the squelch worked by forcing one of the input pins of the audio power amplifier - essentially a high-power op-amp - low, making the output slam against one end of its output range and thereby crudely disabling the audio amp. The sudden change of voltage on the output caused a large pulse through the output decoupling capacitor, hence the 'bok'.

The solution was to disconnect the collector of the squelch output transistor from the audio amp input and connect it to the receiver audio signal line shortly after the volume control wiper. It provided the same audio muting effect without inducing violent voltage level changes on the output of the audio amplifier IC.

That said, I would not modify it now. Anything which has survived in its original form for so many years has earned the right to stay the way it is.
SiriusHardware is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2014, 7:13 am   #18
M0SOE_Bruce
Pentode
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Deal, Kent, UK.
Posts: 139
Default Re: Various CB equipment FOC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techman View Post
I suspect there's a lot of people on this forum that have a CB radio past, but are ashamed to admit it!
I've been a licenced ham for over 44 years but I'll admit it was CB that led me there. Growing up in Canada I got into CB in the late 1960s when the craze started. It became so popular you could buy a set at the local grocery store.

Propagation helped develop my language skills as I tried to interpret signals from the southern US. Phrases like "10-4 good buddy", "mercy me cottonpicker" and "you're treetop tall" come to mind.

Some operators weren't content with 40 channels and had their rigs modified with an adjustment to vary the frequency (called a slider).

I remember the whine of heterodynes when the "skip" rolled in.

Bruce M0SOE
M0SOE_Bruce is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2014, 8:28 am   #19
'LIVEWIRE?'
Rest in Peace
 
'LIVEWIRE?''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton)
Posts: 7,306
Default Re: CB Radio Use

Anyone remember a device called 'Selcall' (Selective Calling), which was a small 'add-on' box containing a circuit which allowed only other user(s) eqipped with a Selcall unit set to the same code to listen to, and talk to you. There was a circuit published in one of the Electronics Magazines of the day, possibly Radio & Electronics World, and at least one company produced them commercially.
Re; Cybernet. Radiomobile CB Transceivers were rebadged Cybernet models. They sold both the basic and the Higher Spec. versions. Whilst on this subject, did any forum member ever use the 'K40' microphone?

Last edited by 'LIVEWIRE?'; 20th Aug 2014 at 8:34 am.
'LIVEWIRE?' is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2014, 9:27 am   #20
russell_w_b
Dekatron
 
russell_w_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK.
Posts: 3,684
Default Re: CB Radio Use

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'LIVEWIRE?' View Post
'Anyone remember a device called 'Selcall' (Selective Calling), which was a small 'add-on' box containing a circuit which allowed only other user(s) eqipped with a Selcall unit...'
My chums and I, all single blokes at the time and impecunious new mortgagors (or tenants), made crude selcall units using an NE567 tone decoder and an oscillator and fitting them to cheap rigs bought from charity shops. The squelch was turned up and they were left on a relatively clear channel and they worked a treat. We called it 'Drink-Link' and used it to see who was going into town for a pint that night.

In the BBC back in the '80s we had proper Selcall units fitted to the Pye VHF R/Ts in the mobile transmitter team vehicles, before mobile phones came into vogue.

One Sunday back in '80, I was sat in the drive at home, nattering on the CB and using the lingo, and I suddenly thought: 'what's this all about, then? As someone interested in radio since childhood, I realised my time was up on CB and I had to move on, which I did, migrating to the amateur bands, but thankful for the friendships and cameraderie made in those halcyon days of youth. I would've got there eventually otherwise, but it's fair to say that CB radio accelerated the process.

Later on in '84, I bought a (legal) Midland CB for a tenner - Dixon's were selling them off - and a converter strip from some place in the RadCom (can't remember who made them) consisting of a couple of up/down counters and binary counters and a bit of logic, and converted the Midland to the ten metre band. I used to have duplex QSOs with two one way and ten the other - good fun!

The rig got put in a cupboard and forgotten about, and both it (reconverted to CB) and the 'Drink-Link' CB were donated to those convoys that took food and aid to eastern Europe back in the early '90s.

I've never been on the CB channels since.
__________________
Regds,

Russell W. B.
G4YLI.
russell_w_b is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:25 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.