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Old 2nd Feb 2018, 1:50 pm   #81
kalee20
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

There may be a few wind-ups, though I don't think I've been the victim on UKVRR.

There are appeals for help from newcomers who don't know much, as has been said it can be insulting to assume they know nothing until that has been established. But if they're genuinely interested, they keep a look-out for replies, and engage with the members who are trying to help. These are the folks who I regard it as our duty to try to pass knowledge to, before our own mortal coil burns out. And sometimes, gaps in our own knowledge can be exposed and filled.

There are the others, who post a question, members offer advice, there's a bit of discussion, and it dies because the OP never logs back in. That's probably going to happen as long as there are humans on the planet - there will be a small percentage of this type.

My own knowledge tends to stop at the electronic level. I've got a working knowledge of circuitry down to component level, I can explain thermionic emission and current flow in a valve. I design circuits, equipment, inductors, and transformers for a living. But if someone were to ask me, why don't the electrons themselves break apart with all the heating going on, then I would be stumped!
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Old 2nd Feb 2018, 1:55 pm   #82
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobaltblue View Post

Many of the very best in vintage radio and TV had a commercial element.

Mike T
I just want to make it clear I have no problem with comercial ventures providing at the same time they benifit the hobby I do not condone simply freeloading taking advantage of collectors generous nature or only treating the forums and the BVWS as a source of revenue.

Cheers

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Old 2nd Feb 2018, 3:57 pm   #83
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

The txt generation are used to notifications, and people being expected to reply quickly. Perhaps they look for a while and assume no one is there. We do our best to moderate quickly, and it doesn't usually take long for a reply of some sort, but for some perhaps it just isn't what they've become used to.
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Old 2nd Feb 2018, 6:00 pm   #84
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

The gems more than make up for the dross !

I don't think "wind ups" will ever really work on this site. Nobody posts angry replies so any such thread will just die a natural death full of helpful posts! You really need a group of head strong opinionated people for that to work effectively.

dc
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Old 2nd Feb 2018, 8:12 pm   #85
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

I like to try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I remember a post where someone was having trouble with no audio output from a turntable to an amplifier - both had belonged to a relative, I think, and had worked together before.

We talked the OP (who was at least able to use a meter in continuity mode, and showed willingness to follow instructions) through to the point of metering out all of the connections from the base of the tonearm, only to find that there appeared to be no left or right audio connection getting from inside the deck to the centre pins on the phono plugs on the end of the audio output leads.

In the middle of the audio output was a din male / din female connection, so in fact the second half of the output lead was a DIN to phono converter lead. We explained how to release and slide back the covers on the DIN connectors and in there, the OP found that the left and right signal wires had both snapped off their respective din connector pins. He resoldered them and his problem was finally fixed.

For all of us here, doing those continuity tests, finding the open circuit and taking apart the DIN connectors would have been a moment's work, automatic, intuitive. But if you really don't know... you really don't know.

If you look back over your own beginnings in the trade / hobby there would have been a time when you knew literally nothing about the subject, and yet somehow you got from that place to where you are now. How did that happen? Did you teach yourself, or did someone more experienced (and patient) help you and teach you from time to time? Probably a mixture of both, for most people.

Everyone has to start somewhere.
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Old 2nd Feb 2018, 10:38 pm   #86
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Thumbs up Re: Having a laugh?

There's a lot of truth in that last paragraph: well said.

It reminded me of my early SWL days when I acquired a 19 set - complete with the dynamometer that required 12v.d.c. to produce the necessary volts. Having a little knowledge, I obtained a number of 12v. electric train power units and wired their outputs in parallel - and the receiver worked! However, my joy was short-lived. After some time, reception on the highest freq. ceased - and that effect slowly worked its way LF-wards until no reception at all. Switch the whole affair off, wait 5 minutes, switch on - ah-ha! All working again - until the fault repeated.
Baffled, I spoke to my friend who was also the local T.V. engineer. He recognised the fault straight away "The local oscillator is stopping because you haven't got enough current from that stack of train power units. You need a proper mains PSU". So, I did the appropriate reading, built one - problem gone forever.

Conclusions.
With guidance from a knowledgeable friend, plus my effort to teach myself, the problem was thus fixed. And I learnt the importance of:
1. If in doubt, ask.
2. When you are faced with a baffling problem, don't just shrug shoulders and walk away and do something else - make the effort to read and learn.
3. Have patience, persistence and perseverance.
4. If things come too easy, they're probably not worth much.

Al.
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Old 9th Feb 2018, 4:39 pm   #87
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

It's hugely difficult to know how to pitch responses to a new member- some seem vague and uncertain in an initial post but ultimately prove to be seasoned, knowledgeable and insightful veterans who are returning to the fray after a long while and get up to speed, others launch into a confident this, this, this spiel- but a few posts later have everyone realising that they're actually quite clueless and fearing for their safety!

There's a worrying pattern of people who want to resurrect a record player or other piece of vintage audio kit and present everyone with the dilemma of apparently treating the forum as a free consultancy-"Of course, I know it all- but just tell me what bits do I need to change....". I think most folk here have in common that they like to see others appreciating and taking an interest in vintage electronics, but feel a bit resentful at the thought that they are being taken advantage of en-route to someone else's fast buck or penny-pinching.

It's a hobby where basic understanding is pretty much essential to continued safety, if nothing else. Unfortunately, the escalation in value and scarcity of some vintage audio items in particular means that there will always be some on the make on the back of others- I haven't done a statistical analysis, but it definitely seems that audio topics are the most likely to generate heat and ill-feeling. Whenever someone gets snappy on a forum topic, I find myself thinking, "Hmm, no rational person needs to get unpleasant around a harmless hobby interest like ours- I smell a rat of vested interest here".
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Old 9th Feb 2018, 7:22 pm   #88
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

Might be easier to respond to new members if they were kind enough to put a profile up.

There seems to be less who do now when joining.
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Old 9th Feb 2018, 10:15 pm   #89
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

The sort of person who sees this as simply a one-shot resource to get his Cheapygram 1000 fixed won't see any value in posting a profile, though.

David
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Old 9th Feb 2018, 11:05 pm   #90
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

Thats a good summary by turrett slug [p87]. The debate has gone on for a few years now and in a way it's a clash of of cultures ie the traditionalist hobbyists encountering instantaneous modernists and occasionally opportunists. Trying to raise this issue gently used to mainly fall on deaf ears but not so much now perhaps A lot of it is just good manners in a way. If you join a Radio Club or any sort of social group you start slowly. Just asking the OP one or two polite questions re knowledge, intention, motivation will usually and does, get a more informative response-even if only it's silence sometimes

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Old 9th Feb 2018, 11:45 pm   #91
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

Yes post #87 is a good observation.
I was watching a recent post, I guess most of you will know which one and I thought the attitude from the OP was right off. Saying that one is very competent or words to that effect, then in the next sentence more or less admitting he didnt have a clue how the simplest circuit worked, nor understanding component values gave me the shivers. But expecting a forum member to basically select and point to a specific supplier so that he could get a quick fix without even trying to fathom out what, if anything was wrong with a gramophone isn't in the spirit of our hobby i feel.
Notwithstanding issues of possible dyslexia and dyscalculia, and not wanting to offend any members coping with those challenges, to me its a simple case of personal safety.
I guess I am just a grumpy old so and so but there it is.
Heck for the cost of the bits I'd have posted them on myself FOC to the guy if I'd thought he knew what to do with them.
I hope I do not upset any forum members with my immoderate views, goodness knows I have been saved from potentially damaging and embarassing faux pas with sane advice here.

A.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 12:00 am   #92
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

If it's high enough- wherever it likes, as long as it's not through my fingers to earth .
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 1:26 am   #93
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

We've had a couple of threads in this vein. People can be self deprecating or self confident, from a distance we can only take things at face value or ask questions. Generally, good will on both sides prevails and progress is made. We're all of different ages, and consequently had different introductions into the subject/hobby/profession. The goal is to learn and keep on learning, whatever the route.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 3:35 am   #94
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

There was indeed a recent thread where I had a laugh! (Not at any current member or moderator.)
It happened before I got round to mentioning/questioning the presence and quality of isolating capacitors for the pickup leads, but a competent in-service (PAT) tester would test that anyway, so my conscience is relatively clear.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 6:30 am   #95
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

Learning is the key. Those who know how to do something, got there by learning. Those who are doing something for their first time, whether with guidance, by deduction or by trial-and-error, can't avoid learning from it. The human mind is a pattern recognition engine bolted onto a pile of curiosity. Pattern recognition spots things which resemble known things you want to repeat or avoid, curiosity drives you to try new things and extend the database, and language allows one individual to learn from the experiences of another. The latter is very powerful, and saves a lot of wear and tear. A recent statement by someone requesting information, that they did not want to learn anything, I found somewhat disquieting. This self-inconsistant challenge to the nature of the forum produced the requested information, then everyone let it quietly fizzle. I was impressed by the way it was handled.

David
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 11:53 am   #96
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
Learning is the key. A recent statement by someone requesting information, that they did not want to learn anything, I found somewhat disquieting.

David
I'm sure, for most regular forum members, learning more about a subject that we have an interest in is a big driving force. The enjoyment comes from the actual process of repairing or restoring the item rather than the end result. Indeed, once an item is finished, I, for one, tend to loose interest in it. Nostalgia also plays a big part.

For the "I've bought a record player because it looks retro & cool" people, the motivations are very different. The end result is what is wanted: the process of getting there just gets in the way and needs to be got through as quickly as possible! They have no desire to develop a life long hobby fixing old junk!

Over the years, I got used to the assumption by many customers that electronic gear must be really simple and that fixing it was 'money for old rope'! After all, the end result looks simple: Picture on screen or put a tape in, press play and picture appears: how hard can that be?

So I don't find it surprising that people think that getting a 50 year old valve record player working, with autochanger, should be very hard!
I think very few newcomers are 'having a laugh' or winding us up. I think it is a genuine total lack of knowledge & once they start, they quickly get way out of their depth and are rapidly disillusioned.

Just my thoughts!
Cheers
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 12:02 pm   #97
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

"I've repaired your set sir. An open circuit resistor has been replaced. That'll be £10."

"But resistors only cost 3 pence. I have a soldering iron. I could have done the job myself."

"Why didn't you then?"

"I needed someone to tell me which resistor to change and what I should buy."

.....................
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 1:17 pm   #98
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Station X View Post
"I've repaired your set sir. An open circuit resistor has been replaced. That'll be £10."

"But resistors only cost 3 pence. I have a soldering iron. I could have done the job myself."

"Why didn't you then?"

"I needed someone to tell me which resistor to change and what I should buy."

.....................
The correct response is "It's thruppence for the parts and £20 for knowing which ones and where to put them.".
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 1:58 pm   #99
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Station X View Post
"I've repaired your set sir. An open circuit resistor has been replaced. That'll be £10."

"But resistors only cost 3 pence. I have a soldering iron. I could have done the job myself."

"Why didn't you then?"

"I needed someone to tell me which resistor to change and what I should buy."

.....................
If you're only charging a tenner for diagnosis and repair Graham, then I'm heading your way!
Ok that was tongue in cheek but there's the nub of it. A professional repair man has to make a living and some folk just don't get that.

A.

Last edited by bikerhifinut; 10th Feb 2018 at 1:59 pm. Reason: Bad English
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 2:17 pm   #100
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

I don't think it helps that we haven't yet evolved to communicate effectively using text/email or even phone calls/handwritten letters. Some bright spark came up with emoticons (which i don't-yet-use myself but will admit that they have filled a subtle but important gap in the written word spectrum)

It must be very frustrating for someone who has dyslexia (my best mate has it) or number blindness, especially as a result of less enlightened schooling regime/s where such people were marginalised and sidelined to a certain extent. I am fortunate in this respect but to this day i am incapable of long division and certain elements within Trig. Whenever the explanation/s were repeated (and they were many times) i could not grasp them, and after the 2nd or 3rd attempt the tutor's voice would typically fade to be replaced by the music from The Magic Roundabout.

I started on here by chance, having taken the back off an Ekco B&W T344.
A circuit diagram was kindly provided and what i thought might be a relatively simple job turned into a very complex one. This was an inauspicious start by the general standards of this forum because i will admit i was more interested in getting the set working than the intricacies of it's circuits. The 'set was ultimately passed on to Ken who, having spent very many evenings fixing multiple faults and making it dance properly, then passed it on with no profit whatsoever- very much in the spirit of things. I then (again, by chance) found that avometers and the like suited my manual dexterity and interest in the P/VI and V/IR equations much better. Being amongst higher IQ's than my own has helped greatly.
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