Philips PM5519 Service info - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Vintage Engr · 23rd Oct 2017, 4:11 pm

I have one of these Philips PM5519 pattern generators, which has developed two faults.
The first is that the colour bar signal loses its B-Y signal, very erratically.
It will come & go quite randomly.
The second fault is that the circle generator does not function.

I do have a copy of the service mannual, which was obtained on-line. The only problem is that the page which shows the main PCB layout page 78 (unit 10) is not legible enough to read many of the IC designation numbers.

Having looked again online for perhaps another scanned-in copy, I was amazed to find that they all emanated from the same original copied source, so they were all bad!

Does anyone have a hard-copy original from which they would be willing to scan in page 78 please?

Thanks,
David.

dazzlevision · 23rd Oct 2017, 5:07 pm

Hello,

I have an original manual and will scan the page, which is A3 size. I will post it here, but as file upload sizes are limited, I may have to email it to you.

Concerning the missing circle, there are two close tolerance 0.13uF, 1%, 63V (if my memory is correct) Polystyrene capacitors (518 & 519) in that circuit area which can cause this ( my PM5519 did this and I ordered the two special caps from Pye Unicam Ltd, the official sales, spares and service company for Philips Test & Measurement equipment (circa 1984). I'm pretty sure they are cylindrical and yellow in colour.

dazzlevision · 23rd Oct 2017, 5:27 pm

Scans attached, in two files, as my scanner doesn't handle A3 paper. They seem very legible.

Vintage Engr · 23rd Oct 2017, 6:49 pm

Thanks,

I really appreciate that, - the layout I have is just a line drawing of the top side of the PCB whereas yours, which appears to be a later version, shows the tracks as well.
I've given myself a really bad headache all afternoon trying to read my on-line version!

I have repaired the missing B-Y fault, a pair of electrolytics which feed the output from the bar generator to the balanced modulator, (via a couple of reed-relays) were faulty, well one was, but I changed the one to the R-Y as well.
Thanks for the tip regarding the circle generator, I'll look at that.

I trying to trace through the nand gate switching for the circle gen, but again my downloaded circuit is not much good, that part is partially missing!
I well remember Pye Unicam, having been in both domestic & Broadcast TV engineering. Happy memories.

I'll report back later!

Thanks again,
David.

dazzlevision · 24th Oct 2017, 6:44 am

Let me know if you want a scan of the missing part of your circuit diagram. I'll keep my manual handy for the moment.

Vintage Engr · 24th Oct 2017, 11:14 am

Thanks,
That's very kind of you.
I could really do with a scan of the entire unit 10 pcb's circuit, if that's not too much trouble.
It looks as if it might be a problem with the logic switching. I have checked around the two 0.130n capacitors & the circle generator itself seems to be operating, but the switching logic does not appear to be working as it should. Really annoying, one piece of workshop test gear goes faulty, & then another. I have a year-old Hantek DSO, still under warranty, & that decided to go faulty yesterday whilst I was working on the Philips! It won't lock to comp video.

Have just got an email back from China. "Dear Sir, can you solder?- if so replace sync IC"...! Just about to order that so I can fix the PM5519....

Thanks again for your help,

David.

dazzlevision · 24th Oct 2017, 11:48 am

Hello,

I should be able to scan the main circuit diagram and post here tonight.

Vintage Engr · 24th Oct 2017, 11:53 am

Thanks,
Much appreciated.

David.

dazzlevision · 24th Oct 2017, 7:58 pm

Here's the main PCB circuit, in four parts, which I think overlap!

KeithsTV · 25th Oct 2017, 7:45 am

I have one of these generators which was missing the circle when I acquired it. This was due to one of the 0.13uF capacitors being short circuit. I replaced it with a combination of capacitors to make up the required value.

Keith

Vintage Engr · 25th Oct 2017, 12:00 pm

Thanks both,

Hopefully I should now be able to sort the problem.

It seems to be 'Test Equipment Failure Month' for me!

It started with my ex-BBC audio test set, then the PM5519, then whilst working on the PM5519, the nearly new Hantek 'scope. So I've now reverted to my trusty Hitachi V1150.. I hope that does not decide to follow the other items.
Hoping to fix the Hantek tomorrow if the IC arrives. As an aside to that, just had an email back from Hantek saying that it's o.k. for me to fix the 'scope myself, it won't affect the warranty. I guess that makes me an 'Authorised person'!

Thanks again, will post the results.

David.

Vintage Engr · 30th Oct 2017, 4:51 pm

I thought I'd post a partial update, althogh the job isn't completely finished yet.

Have now got the circle generator operating correctly. However, on colour bars the B-Y started to go intermittent again. Not quite as it was before, where there was still a vestige of the B-Y signal there, but smeary.

This time it was no B-Y at all, when it was in the fault mode.
I managed to catch it going, & swiftly used a croc-lead across the reed-relay contacts, when the missing B-Y came back immediately.
The fault was in the open-frame style winding, being very intermittently o/c. These particular reed-relay types have given problems in the past on various Philips 'scopes. I tried re-soldering the terminations to no effect, so removed the complete reed-relay from the PCB.

Having no suitable replacement to hand, (Why is it that I, like many others, have boxes of just about every component, but not the one for the job in hand?!).
I have ordered a couple of sealed DIP reed-relays, will put them on a small sub-board & will change both B-Y & R-Y relays, for good measure. I did have a wild idea about using a CMOS 4066 instead, but decided not to get carried away! The original idea was to fix the PM5519 so that I could repair another item, not to re-design the thing.

Once I've fixed the Pattern generator, I still have a couple of faults on the Lindos to repair, it never seems to end. I still have'nt got a second reply back from China regarding (me) repairing my under-guarantee DSO, which wasn't the video sync-sep IC they suggested. I was using that to fault-find the PM5519, when the 'scope went faulty...

David.

Argus25 · 1st Nov 2017, 7:32 pm

HI,

THose PM5519 relays are best replaced with the TO-5 style miniature relays from Teledyne which have the wire leads.

The faults that cropped up in my PM5519's so far were electrolytic power supply caps and inline rectifiers on the power pcb's (doesn't sound like an issue on your unit) and the plug connections on the vertically mounted pcb's that are in the aluminium shields being intermittent due to oxidation of the contact pin and the tin plated pcb tracks that they connect to gave intermittent faults in one unit. So it pays to clean and re-seat those.

It is a real pain when you reach for a test instrument and it's faulty.

Vintage Engr · 2nd Nov 2017, 1:19 pm

Thanks,

I did have some of those TO5 relays, but couldn't locate them. ( This is what happens when one hoards parts for over 50 years!).

I had hoped to finally fix the Philips yesterday. However, when the package with the reed relays appeared, that was not what was inside..

There were two miniscule surface mount 20-way sockets, all packed in a nice anti-static bag with the part numbers of the relays on! So I'm now waiting a replacement.

Will post the final result later.

Meanwhile my electronic ballast for our UV water sterilizer went bang, so that's more urgent! Otherwise I have to boil all the water. It's not my week.

David.

Vintage Engr · 11th Nov 2017, 4:35 pm

Another update!

Having given up waiting for the reed relays, I ordered some more from a different supplier. You guessed - that's not what arrived. instead there were two huge glass reed-switches, 85mm long..!

After further correspondence, both suppliers eventually came up with the correct item.
Fortunately, it was possible to slightly bend the legs of the DIP reed-relays to make an exact fit into the space left by the Philips square ones.

That solved the missing R-Y, & B-Y problems.

I thought I'd do a complete line-up of the pattern generator, and in the process discovered a further fault.
This initially appeared to be a chroma leak problem. Ater further investigation, and getting the chroma leak as low as possible, I realised that the fault was there even on a white test pattern, with the chroma & burst switched off.

There is around 50mV of 'crud' sitting at both peak white & bottom of syncs. It's also visible on a mono stairstep.
It seems to be general digital noise coming from just about everywhere.
Maybe I'm being picky, as I'm used to broadcast generators, which are generally very clean.

So if someone has a working one, I'd be interested to know how clean the video output is.

I have looked at the PSU, & there were a couple of high ESR caps there, one on the 5v rails which was doing nothing. However replacing this made only a miniscule difference to the residual noise. I have also looked at all the power rails on Unit 10, and their associated decoupling capacitors, to no avail.

David.

Argus25 · 13th Nov 2017, 1:51 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vintage Engr

This initially appeared to be a chroma leak problem. Ater further investigation, and getting the chroma leak as low as possible, I realised that the fault was there even on a white test pattern, with the chroma & burst switched off.

There is around 50mV of 'crud' sitting at both peak white & bottom of syncs. It's also visible on a mono stairstep.

I'm pretty sure this is a known problem for the PM5519. There was an earthing issue related to the PCB tracks and connection to the front panel BNC socket too, possibly. I think the mod to fix this, involving adding a wire link to the PCB, is in the manual, or at least the updated manual version.

The problem presents mainly as residual chroma carrier on the video signal, regardless of well the presets on the balanced modulator IC's (MC1496's) are set . Or it could also be some digital noise too, but the problem is improved with the mod as both problems relate to a PCB track earth issue, I'll have a look and see if I can find what the repair or mod was, or if anyone else knows ?

Vintage Engr · 13th Nov 2017, 11:29 am

Thanks for that.
This is definitely digital noise, as I completely kill the chroma & its still there.
I might experiment with the power rail earthing on unit 10 to see if it helps.

As I say, I'm a very picky/fussy engineer. I started out in domestic & moved on to broadcast engineering, Both Sony & Panasonic Broadcast used to comment on this fact, as I always wanted everything perfect. But then I used a Rode & Shwartz video noise meter & other exotic kit!
Now I'm retired I don't have access to the really expensive kit.

I let you know how I get on.

Incidentally the early copy of the manual I have does not show the modification, so any further info on that wouild be appreciated.

David.

dazzlevision · 13th Nov 2017, 11:47 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vintage Engr

Incidentally the early copy of the manual I have does not show the modification, so any further info on that wouild be appreciated.

Hello,

My PM5519 service manual has this printed on the front cover:

(9499 525 00711) 800201/2/01-03.

I also have a supplement ref. SGS 27, which covers several changes, but nothing that is likely to relate to your problem. I can scan it, and post in this thread, if you wish.

The supplement SGS 27 lists other supplements that had already been published: SGS 13, SGS 20 and SGS 25 (which I do not have).

However, the supplement I do have came with the PM5519 service manual that I ordered from Pye Unicam, circa 1983. It's therefore likely that these have already been incorporated in the service manual that I have (but not certain!).

These supplements cover changes/corrections/additions to both the PM5519 Operating and Service manuals.

In case it is relevant to your hash/noise problem, there is a wiring mod shown on the layout drawing of the main PCB. I posted scans of this earlier in this thread, but only part of the track layout change is shown, so:

wire 387/1-395/3 added

connection 395/2-395/3 separated.

dragonser · 13th Nov 2017, 12:11 pm

Hi,
this thread is being very useful and informative, as I have a PM5519 to investigate sometime....
but it is in the round tuit pile !

dazzlevision · 13th Nov 2017, 12:22 pm

In case it's of interest:

When the PM5519 was still current, I noticed that, with the circle selected and one line of the video waveform viewed on a 'scope, the circle components dipped below black level.

I asked the Pye Unicam Sales Engineer about this and he referred it to Germany, who replied that it was "normal for this piece of kit".

23rd Oct 2017, 4:11 pm	#1
Vintage Engr Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK. Posts: 838	Philips PM5519 Service info I have one of these Philips PM5519 pattern generators, which has developed two faults. The first is that the colour bar signal loses its B-Y signal, very erratically. It will come & go quite randomly. The second fault is that the circle generator does not function. I do have a copy of the service mannual, which was obtained on-line. The only problem is that the page which shows the main PCB layout page 78 (unit 10) is not legible enough to read many of the IC designation numbers. Having looked again online for perhaps another scanned-in copy, I was amazed to find that they all emanated from the same original copied source, so they were all bad! Does anyone have a hard-copy original from which they would be willing to scan in page 78 please? Thanks, David.

23rd Oct 2017, 5:07 pm	#2
dazzlevision Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 3,608	Re: Philips PM5519 Service info Hello, I have an original manual and will scan the page, which is A3 size. I will post it here, but as file upload sizes are limited, I may have to email it to you. Concerning the missing circle, there are two close tolerance 0.13uF, 1%, 63V (if my memory is correct) Polystyrene capacitors (518 & 519) in that circuit area which can cause this ( my PM5519 did this and I ordered the two special caps from Pye Unicam Ltd, the official sales, spares and service company for Philips Test & Measurement equipment (circa 1984). I'm pretty sure they are cylindrical and yellow in colour. Last edited by dazzlevision; 23rd Oct 2017 at 5:33 pm. Reason: Added text.

23rd Oct 2017, 6:49 pm	#4
Vintage Engr Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK. Posts: 838	Re: Philips PM5519 Service info Thanks, I really appreciate that, - the layout I have is just a line drawing of the top side of the PCB whereas yours, which appears to be a later version, shows the tracks as well. I've given myself a really bad headache all afternoon trying to read my on-line version! I have repaired the missing B-Y fault, a pair of electrolytics which feed the output from the bar generator to the balanced modulator, (via a couple of reed-relays) were faulty, well one was, but I changed the one to the R-Y as well. Thanks for the tip regarding the circle generator, I'll look at that. I trying to trace through the nand gate switching for the circle gen, but again my downloaded circuit is not much good, that part is partially missing! I well remember Pye Unicam, having been in both domestic & Broadcast TV engineering. Happy memories. I'll report back later! Thanks again, David.

24th Oct 2017, 6:44 am	#5
dazzlevision Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 3,608	Re: Philips PM5519 Service info Let me know if you want a scan of the missing part of your circuit diagram. I'll keep my manual handy for the moment.

24th Oct 2017, 11:14 am	#6
Vintage Engr Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK. Posts: 838	Re: Philips PM5519 Service info Thanks, That's very kind of you. I could really do with a scan of the entire unit 10 pcb's circuit, if that's not too much trouble. It looks as if it might be a problem with the logic switching. I have checked around the two 0.130n capacitors & the circle generator itself seems to be operating, but the switching logic does not appear to be working as it should. Really annoying, one piece of workshop test gear goes faulty, & then another. I have a year-old Hantek DSO, still under warranty, & that decided to go faulty yesterday whilst I was working on the Philips! It won't lock to comp video. Have just got an email back from China. "Dear Sir, can you solder?- if so replace sync IC"...! Just about to order that so I can fix the PM5519.... Thanks again for your help, David.

24th Oct 2017, 11:48 am	#7
dazzlevision Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 3,608	Re: Philips PM5519 Service info Hello, I should be able to scan the main circuit diagram and post here tonight.

24th Oct 2017, 11:53 am	#8
Vintage Engr Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK. Posts: 838	Re: Philips PM5519 Service info Thanks, Much appreciated. David.

25th Oct 2017, 7:45 am	#10
KeithsTV Nonode Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South Bradford, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 2,573	Re: Philips PM5519 Service info I have one of these generators which was missing the circle when I acquired it. This was due to one of the 0.13uF capacitors being short circuit. I replaced it with a combination of capacitors to make up the required value. Keith

25th Oct 2017, 12:00 pm	#11
Vintage Engr Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK. Posts: 838	Re: Philips PM5519 Service info Thanks both, Hopefully I should now be able to sort the problem. It seems to be 'Test Equipment Failure Month' for me! It started with my ex-BBC audio test set, then the PM5519, then whilst working on the PM5519, the nearly new Hantek 'scope. So I've now reverted to my trusty Hitachi V1150.. I hope that does not decide to follow the other items. Hoping to fix the Hantek tomorrow if the IC arrives. As an aside to that, just had an email back from Hantek saying that it's o.k. for me to fix the 'scope myself, it won't affect the warranty. I guess that makes me an 'Authorised person'! Thanks again, will post the results. David.

30th Oct 2017, 4:51 pm	#12
Vintage Engr Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK. Posts: 838	Re: Philips PM5519 Service info I thought I'd post a partial update, althogh the job isn't completely finished yet. Have now got the circle generator operating correctly. However, on colour bars the B-Y started to go intermittent again. Not quite as it was before, where there was still a vestige of the B-Y signal there, but smeary. This time it was no B-Y at all, when it was in the fault mode. I managed to catch it going, & swiftly used a croc-lead across the reed-relay contacts, when the missing B-Y came back immediately. The fault was in the open-frame style winding, being very intermittently o/c. These particular reed-relay types have given problems in the past on various Philips 'scopes. I tried re-soldering the terminations to no effect, so removed the complete reed-relay from the PCB. Having no suitable replacement to hand, (Why is it that I, like many others, have boxes of just about every component, but not the one for the job in hand?!). I have ordered a couple of sealed DIP reed-relays, will put them on a small sub-board & will change both B-Y & R-Y relays, for good measure. I did have a wild idea about using a CMOS 4066 instead, but decided not to get carried away! The original idea was to fix the PM5519 so that I could repair another item, not to re-design the thing. Once I've fixed the Pattern generator, I still have a couple of faults on the Lindos to repair, it never seems to end. I still have'nt got a second reply back from China regarding (me) repairing my under-guarantee DSO, which wasn't the video sync-sep IC they suggested. I was using that to fault-find the PM5519, when the 'scope went faulty... David.

1st Nov 2017, 7:32 pm	#13
Argus25 No Longer a Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Maroochydore, Queensland, Australia. Posts: 2,679	Re: Philips PM5519 Service info HI, THose PM5519 relays are best replaced with the TO-5 style miniature relays from Teledyne which have the wire leads. The faults that cropped up in my PM5519's so far were electrolytic power supply caps and inline rectifiers on the power pcb's (doesn't sound like an issue on your unit) and the plug connections on the vertically mounted pcb's that are in the aluminium shields being intermittent due to oxidation of the contact pin and the tin plated pcb tracks that they connect to gave intermittent faults in one unit. So it pays to clean and re-seat those. It is a real pain when you reach for a test instrument and it's faulty.

2nd Nov 2017, 1:19 pm	#14
Vintage Engr Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK. Posts: 838	Re: Philips PM5519 Service info Thanks, I did have some of those TO5 relays, but couldn't locate them. ( This is what happens when one hoards parts for over 50 years!). I had hoped to finally fix the Philips yesterday. However, when the package with the reed relays appeared, that was not what was inside.. There were two miniscule surface mount 20-way sockets, all packed in a nice anti-static bag with the part numbers of the relays on! So I'm now waiting a replacement. Will post the final result later. Meanwhile my electronic ballast for our UV water sterilizer went bang, so that's more urgent! Otherwise I have to boil all the water. It's not my week. David.

11th Nov 2017, 4:35 pm	#15
Vintage Engr Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK. Posts: 838	Re: Philips PM5519 Service info Another update! Having given up waiting for the reed relays, I ordered some more from a different supplier. You guessed - that's not what arrived. instead there were two huge glass reed-switches, 85mm long..! After further correspondence, both suppliers eventually came up with the correct item. Fortunately, it was possible to slightly bend the legs of the DIP reed-relays to make an exact fit into the space left by the Philips square ones. That solved the missing R-Y, & B-Y problems. I thought I'd do a complete line-up of the pattern generator, and in the process discovered a further fault. This initially appeared to be a chroma leak problem. Ater further investigation, and getting the chroma leak as low as possible, I realised that the fault was there even on a white test pattern, with the chroma & burst switched off. There is around 50mV of 'crud' sitting at both peak white & bottom of syncs. It's also visible on a mono stairstep. It seems to be general digital noise coming from just about everywhere. Maybe I'm being picky, as I'm used to broadcast generators, which are generally very clean. So if someone has a working one, I'd be interested to know how clean the video output is. I have looked at the PSU, & there were a couple of high ESR caps there, one on the 5v rails which was doing nothing. However replacing this made only a miniscule difference to the residual noise. I have also looked at all the power rails on Unit 10, and their associated decoupling capacitors, to no avail. David.

13th Nov 2017, 11:29 am	#17
Vintage Engr Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK. Posts: 838	Re: Philips PM5519 Service info Thanks for that. This is definitely digital noise, as I completely kill the chroma & its still there. I might experiment with the power rail earthing on unit 10 to see if it helps. As I say, I'm a very picky/fussy engineer. I started out in domestic & moved on to broadcast engineering, Both Sony & Panasonic Broadcast used to comment on this fact, as I always wanted everything perfect. But then I used a Rode & Shwartz video noise meter & other exotic kit! Now I'm retired I don't have access to the really expensive kit. I let you know how I get on. Incidentally the early copy of the manual I have does not show the modification, so any further info on that wouild be appreciated. David. Last edited by Vintage Engr; 13th Nov 2017 at 11:30 am. Reason: Typo.

13th Nov 2017, 12:11 pm	#19
dragonser Heptode Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Carshalton, Surrey, UK. Posts: 734	Re: Philips PM5519 Service info Hi, this thread is being very useful and informative, as I have a PM5519 to investigate sometime.... but it is in the round tuit pile ! __________________ Regards Peter B

13th Nov 2017, 12:22 pm	#20
dazzlevision Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 3,608	Re: Philips PM5519 Service info In case it's of interest: When the PM5519 was still current, I noticed that, with the circle selected and one line of the video waveform viewed on a 'scope, the circle components dipped below black level. I asked the Pye Unicam Sales Engineer about this and he referred it to Germany, who replied that it was "normal for this piece of kit".