Trying out JLCPCB

[mole42uk]

I found JLCPCB in Hong Kong almost by accident, and as I had a PCB layout that needed a board I tried out their 'prototype' offer - five boards of less than 100x100mm for $2 plus shipping.
I uploaded the gerber files that Eagle generates yesterday morning (Wednesday 24th), the website indicated that production started at 13:23 and the finished boards were in final inspection by 03:18 this morning (25th).
I'm now told that the parts have been shipped by DHL - free of charge, so I'll have five boards for my BBC-spec programme level meter at a cost of £1.55 - that's 31p each! As the circuit uses 741 op-amps, I imagine that the parts cost won't be very much more than this.
I'll update when the boards arrive.

[mole42uk]

The shippers, DHL, tell me the boards will be here on Monday.

[MrBungle]

I’ve sent about 40 orders through them now. They are outstandingly good. No problems so far and I’m getting parts shipped with orders as well now.

Only problem is I keep screwing my bit of the job up

Edit: first order I did last year cost about a tenner in total!

[Diabolical Artificer]

That is stupidly cheap, all I need now is a cheap PCB design service not having PCB software or the nous to use it : )

Andy.

[mole42uk]

I was a circuit draughtsman & PCB designer in the tape-and-lightbox days. My problem now is working out how to use the software tools that are essential to produce the output files for PCB manufacturers. I suppose that’s why I mostly use point-to-point wiring for valves!

[MrBungle]

They all have a learning curve from hell unfortunately. I pushed myself through Kicad eventually because it was free. We get on now but much like MrsBungle and myself it's only mutual acceptance of our existence at this point

It's fun walking through it all though. Current project here is a power meter as all the HP ones are blown up or ridiculously priced. Design is mostly from W7ZOI with some additional filtering and output impedance conversion so you can use it as a fast responding swept power monitor for doing filter sweeps.

Schematic capture:



PCB design:



PCB preview (I love this):



Prototype (third attempt!):



Works! (testing low pass filter for my SA build):

[mole42uk]

I've looked at Kicad but having used Eagle for circuits for several years I'm staying with that for now, although EasyEDA looks quite interesting. Kicad has some useful libraries though. I like the 3D preview but I haven't worked out how to do it in Eagle, although it's a feature of the version I'm using.

I was working with some people back in the late '70s who "did CAD PCBs". We used to send them the circuit diagram, they would send back a list of all the connections that we had to check manually, then they produced a board layout which we had to check visually. With luck, we'd get a prototype board within a month or so and with a little more luck it might work.

I suppose learning Kicad or Eagle or any other tool is so much easier than that.....

[MrBungle]

I used Eagle years and years ago in the 90s but dumped that because Autodesk bought them out recently and AFAIK it's subscription based now. EasyEDA I don't like because of the vendor lock in ecosystem around it (same company as JLCPCB and LCSC).

I would agree with your industry experience. You have to keep the design loop pretty tight. My horrid experience was later than that and I was "design support" which was basically supporting Zuken CR5000 on HPUX. We had a full in house fab that could do very nice multilayer boards (defence sector). Turnaround was slower than JLCPCB even if you're cheap like I am and use the slow boat option and nothing ever worked despite how much Six Sigma juice they squeezed on it. Ugh.

[FRANK.C]

DesignSpark PCB which can be downloaded through RS is another free one with pretty good libraries.

Frank

I have used PCBWAY, brilliant too.

[mole42uk]

Unfortunately DesignSpark is Windows-only, a real shame. I looked at it several years ago and was impressed but I still don’t have a suitable computer!

[Diabolical Artificer]

"They all have a learning curve from hell unfortunately." This is the problem, laying out a PCB is pretty straight forward on paper and the work of an hour with a dremmel or a bit longer with chemicals to cut out the traces and you have a PCB. Still, it's not a proffesional looking as a proper PCB and another good thing I suppose with software is that some (all?) check your connections. Shame there's no software that will turn a handdrawn PCB into a gerber file : )

A.

[MrBungle]

I occasionally do a PCB with an etch resist pen if it’s simple but you can’t beat something with plated vias!

[Terry_VK5TM]

Originally Posted by Diabolical Artificer

Shame there's no software that will turn a handdrawn PCB into a gerber file

Not sure how well it would work with a hand drawn pcb, but there is software to turn pdf copies of pcb's into gerbers.

One such - https://swannman.github.io/pdf2gerb/

[joebog1]

I also started my career as a PCB designer. Bishops graphics tapes and pads style!!
I did graduate to Easytrax which was ( as far as I am concerned ) Still the best for fairly simple boards. Alas its 16bit windows only. Worked superbly under win 3.1, or even dos 4 and upwards.
Now I use Kicad, which has already been stated is a HUGE learning curve but well worth the effort. Windows has been dead for me since they trashed win2k, and am exclusivly Linux after having learned Unix some 38 years ago.
I had a look at the converter that Terry has shown and find it has the "cut corners" of many of the modern CAD packages do. With a still mainly routed by hand system
( Kicad)sharp corners are avoided, although it does take some skill. Even before I retired I was having trouble with 90 degree corners on PCB's. They do form a capacitor, especially at RF frequencies.

Joe

[Marconi_MPT4]

Originally Posted by joebog1

I did graduate to Easytrax
Joe

Easytrax was a great application under DOS/Windows, traded it up to Protel PCB (98) multi-user network licensing and then Protel 99SE schematic capture. Still using Protel 99 as it does everything I need to create a PCB. Later Altium releases were way off my budget with associated high cost to obtain the same functionality. Incidentally Protel 99 will work installed under Win7 on a Samsung net book.

Kicad certainly looks the way to go and there appears to be a tool/plug in that allows legacy designs to be imported.

Like many others, I started PCB layouts with transfers, tape all 4x actual size over a light box and then photo reduced image to make a direct 1:1 acetate. PCB coated with photo sensitive resist, exposed board to a UV lamp, remove unexposed resist then etch! One of my colleagues produced a fantastic layout, but when the board was made he then discovered IC's and transistors were mirror imaged.

I digress, JLCPCP certainly looks to be very useful for low cost prototyes and will be giving it a go.

Rich

[Andrew Mawson]

When I was with Mullards in the late 60's we had a sort of precise Etch-a-sketch thing in the lab that removed a red wax layer from an acetate sheet from which we produced transparencies on film.

A very frustrating thing to use - no error correcting !

I've been using Seetrax for over 20 years and can knock out a PCB in very short time (say an hour for a dozen or so components, shorter if I have all of them in a library). It is a bit of a learning curve for any of them (I am now learning Altim, the works standard) but essentially the same...

Specify components, footprint, pinout and circuit symbol.
Draw circuit
Plonk components on PCB
Track up

One of my "silly things to do" is try and track everything on one side plus a ground plane. This makes homemade PCBs a lot simpler to do. SMT is very handy too, no holes to drill.

[MrBungle]

SMT is a godsend. Not just no holes but you don't have to route the tracks round the holes on all the layers!

[mole42uk]

Here we are - the boards arrived yesterday!

The board fits directly onto the Sifam 22A PPM movement....