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Old 5th Jan 2009, 9:49 pm   #1
daniel.nelson
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Default Removing turntable from BSR to clean

Hello

I have a very similar issue to this thread:
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ease+turntable

I have a BSR turntable on an AEL audio record player (from what I can tell).

The turntable has completely stopped turning but the player does start up. From my understanding of the other thread, I need to remove the turntable by turning screws by 90 degrees and then the turntable will come out. This is not happening.

I have some images to help describe the problem, and if anybody knows how to help with this issue, I'd be really grateful.

Many thanks

Daniel Nelson
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Old 5th Jan 2009, 11:22 pm   #2
Michael Maurice
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Default Re: Removing turntable from BSR to clean

Good evening Daniel,

Welcome to the forum.

You cannot remove the deck simply bu turning the screws, these are transit screws which hold the deck to the cabinet when the screws are raised and allow the deck to float when down.

To remove the deck you have to either remove the wood on which it sits on, or put your hand under the turntable locate the screws (the screws must be down) then you can turn the metal bit that effectively clamps the deck to the plinth and remove the deck

But you might not need to do that. On these turntables most of the mechanism that needs servicing is on top of the deck, below the turntable.

In your second picture, you can just see a circlip, carefully remove it and you should be able to lift the turntable off. It may not come off easily, in which case gently heat the area and rotate the turntable a little in both directions whilst lifting it, with a bit of persuasion it will come off.

If the turntable doesn't rotate freely and is difficult to lift off, then it probably needs relubricating. Dried up grease and oil is the bugbear of these turntables.

When thats done, you'll have access to the top of the motor and its stepped pulley, the jockey wheel, and the changer cam.

Now, switch the deck on, Does the motor turn or try to turn?

If not, then see if the motor turns freely with the power off, if not you'll have to strip and lubricate the motor.

If yes then does the rubber jockey wheel spin freely?

Please get back and let us know how far you get and we'll all help you to get it going again

Regards

Michael
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Old 6th Jan 2009, 12:45 am   #3
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Default Re: Removing turntable from BSR to clean

Hi Daniel,

I think you've got slightly muddled here.

First of all, forget removing the whole BSR record deck (autochanger) to start with. You may need to do this later, but we can tell you how to do that nearer the time.

As a starting point, I would remove the platter or turntable itself, in other words, the bit that actually spins the record round. This will tell you a lot about what's wrong.

To do this, simply remove the clip (which you can see nicely in the 2nd photo) from the central bearing. Use a small screwdriver to slide it off sideways. Then, rotate the turntable/platter back and forwards while pulling upwards. Make sure you don't lose the washers and ball bearing race from underneath (which may or may not come away at the same time).

Get back to use when you've done this.

Nick.

EDIT... I see my post crossed with Michael's. I'm glad we agree on quite a few things
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Old 7th Jan 2009, 9:33 pm   #4
daniel.nelson
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Default Re: Removing turntable from BSR to clean

Hi both of you.

Sorry for the delay in replying - I thought an email would come through to say someone posted, but now I see I had to subscribe.

Right. I will go away and try to remove the circlip - that makes more sense.

I will report back.

Thanks for the help.

Daniel
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Old 8th Jan 2009, 1:17 am   #5
Jimmyhaflinger
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Default Re: Removing turntable from BSR to clean

Be careful, the platter's sleeve bearing in 70s BSR changers is prone to get stuck on the spindle due to hardened grease.

If the platter doesn't spin freely don't attempt to force it out as you may damage it, you can put a few drops of light sewing machine oil on the locking clip and allow some days for it to penetrate, then apply some more and carefully try to turn the platter while you pull it out.

Once you have the platter out you'll need to clean & relube the shaft and the flat ball bearing at the bottom of it (be careful not to lose the 5 balls) then you'll likely need to do the same with the large alloy gear which drives the autochanger mechanism, in fact if you want it to perform reliably you may need to clean & relube the entire mechanism including the tonearm bearing

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Old 8th Jan 2009, 11:54 am   #6
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Default Re: Removing turntable from BSR to clean

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyhaflinger View Post
Be careful, the platter's sleeve bearing in 70s BSR changers is prone to get stuck on the spindle due to hardened grease.

If the platter doesn't spin freely don't attempt to force it out as you may damage it, you can put a few drops of light sewing machine oil on the locking clip and allow some days for it to penetrate, then apply some more and carefully try to turn the platter while you pull it out.
I have also used a hot soldering iron tip on this sort of thing which is quick, works a treat in softening the sticky grease.
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Old 9th Jan 2009, 12:25 am   #7
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Default Re: Removing turntable from BSR to clean

The soldering iron method may be risky on this particular BSR deck as it has a plastic platter,

it might be fine for the changer gear though
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Old 9th Jan 2009, 1:58 am   #8
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Default Re: Removing turntable from BSR to clean

Use gentle heat from a hairdryer otherwise,Jimmy's idea of a few drops of light oil to penetrate would be better, above all please dont force anything.
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Old 13th Jan 2009, 10:25 pm   #9
daniel.nelson
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Default Re: Removing turntable from BSR to clean

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickthedentist View Post
Get back to use when you've done this.
Hi there

I have now removed the turntable plate. It was quite easy which was encouraging.

Now, I am not quite sure what to do. The motor seems to be a bit stiff, but moves around if i push it, but does not spin freely. The rubber wheel moves freely, but is quite weak (is it supposed to be?).

I have attached some more of images of the inside. I cannot identify the ball-bearings that have been mentioned, I can't see any of these.

Thanks again

Daniel
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Old 13th Jan 2009, 11:39 pm   #10
Michael Maurice
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Default Re: Removing turntable from BSR to clean

Daniel, the ball bearings are underneath the steel washer which is the bearing on which the turntable revolves.

The large cog that someone is holding is the main control cam and it is this that activates the changing mechanism. In the centre of it, you will see a circlip, remove it and gently lift the gear up, you may need to rotate it backwards and forwards while lifting it off, dont use too much force.

Use a propriety solvent and clean off all the old grease both from the centre bearing and the cam groove.

Next, you will see a smaller circlip to the side of the cam, remove this, and lift the plates off and again clean off all old grease. Do not put any grease on these but a tiny drop of oil where they mount on the cam (the spindle with the small circlip) is permissable. Apply fresh grease to the centre bearing and the groove and refit to the deck.

Now if the motor itself is stiff, it will need relubricating. You will have to get to the underside to do this, a few drops of oil on the bearings will suffice, gently rotate the motor shaft until it is free to rotate.

Do not allow any oil to contact the stepped motor puller, the rubber wheel or the turntable rim.

Please let us know how you get on.
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Old 14th Jan 2009, 9:09 am   #11
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Default Re: Removing turntable from BSR to clean

Just to avoid any possible confusion, the motor is not the large cog wheel, it lives under the chassis and its drive spindle projects upwards and drives the rubber wheel which in turn drives the rim of the turntable. See if the spindle of the motor rotates freely with your fingers.
Since the turntable had stopped rotating (from the original posting) and it came off its bearing easily, maybe the problem is with the autochange cam getting stuck halfway through its cycle?

Hope I've not offended anyone here.
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Old 14th Jan 2009, 10:12 pm   #12
daniel.nelson
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Default Re: Removing turntable from BSR to clean

Thanks again

I have managed to follow most of the instructions relatively easily, but I don't see "you will see a smaller circlip to the side of the cam". So I have taken some more photos with the cog removed. I just want to make sure that I do this correctly.

Also, will bicycle chain grease do the job? I have some of this at home.
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Old 14th Jan 2009, 10:48 pm   #13
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Default Re: Removing turntable from BSR to clean

Look at the first picture in post #9. The circlip referred to is that holding the (vaguely) triangular plate to the large gear wheel or cam.

In the same picture the motor shaft is almost directly below the rubber idler wheel. That's "below" as you look at the picture, not when looking at the deck in its normal position.
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Old 14th Jan 2009, 11:04 pm   #14
Audio1950
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Default Re: Removing turntable from BSR to clean

Bicycle chain grease will be fine.

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Old 14th Jan 2009, 11:36 pm   #15
Michael Maurice
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Default Re: Removing turntable from BSR to clean

Again to clarify things, the cog that you refer to is what I've referred to as the cam. In the third picture you'll see the stepped pulley to the left of the rubber wheel, that is the motor pulley and it should be very easy to spin by hand.

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Old 15th Jan 2009, 1:00 am   #16
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Default Re: Removing turntable from BSR to clean

That's right. The stepped pulley should spin relatively freely, but it won't spin for long, maybe three or four turns. If you hold the rubber wheel (jockey wheel) out of the way, put a couple of drops of light oil (3 in 1, or similar) onto the pulley at the point it disappears into the motor. Then wipe off excess with solvent, as any remaining on the steps will cause the jockey wheel to slip. You should really remove the circlip from the top of the jockey wheel, and slowly pull off the wheel. I say slowly, because there will be a fibre washer under it, and it may stay on the shaft, or stick to the bottom of the jockey wheel! Clean the shaft, and the hole in the jockey wheel, then before replacing it, clean the edge of the rubber with thinners or solvent to remove any previous contaminants. Tiny drop of oil on the shaft, put the fibre washer back, followed by the jockey wheel, then the top washer, then the circlip. Wipe everything again, in case you had grease on your fingers, and job should be complete. Keep us informed!

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