Aerial connection - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Crystalstar · 12th Jul 2011, 10:20 pm

Hi Guys I'm new to all this, but a few months I fell in love with an old Cambridge Pye Tablegram on Trade me bought it and am restoring it.
I'm good with wood as have been working with since I was eight with dads paint stripping gun. However have no electrical knowledge.

I want to try to boost the range of the ariel to pick up other am stations further afeild, not sure if this is possible, can any one assist me?

Had found an Indoor External AM Antenna with 1/8" (3.5mm) stereo connector is for use with the Model One* AM/FM table radio, the Model Satellite AM/FM/SIRIUS Satellite table radio, and the Music System Digital AM/FM/CD Hi-Fi System for improved AM reception.

however I am not sure if you can use this sort of ariel on an old vintage radio or if you can how do you adapt it, any help any one can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Crystalstar.

paulsherwin · 12th Jul 2011, 10:44 pm

Old valve radios are designed for use with a long wire aerial. Just connect the longest length of wire you can find, the longer the better. If you have a garden you can run the wire down a wooden fence or hang it between the house and a tree. If you're in a flat try running some wire around the edge of the room.

neon indicator · 12th Jul 2011, 10:55 pm

I've used washing lines. Sometimes specially purchased. Used to use my Mum's even with the washing on it.

Steel cored kind, not cord

chipp1968 · 13th Jul 2011, 8:14 am

A good external earth can sometimes improve things too.Mainly it seams to get rid of a lot of interference in my experience , but has to be external.At least it does in my experience .Internal earth didn't work at all.
Before I used an external aerial and earth ,my reception was so bad here that I couldn't use sets without frame aerials!

newlite4 · 13th Jul 2011, 9:23 am

I installed a good aerial from my kitchen down to the parapet of the roof below. I used "vactite" silver plated insulated wire with porcelain egg insulators. The parapet end was just a lead block resting on the masonry. Only trouble is that builders re-developing the basement snipped off the wire leaving it dangling and have probably sold the lead block for beer money

. Moral of this tale is, if you build your dream aerial, make sure no-one else can get at it!
Neil

MikeyPP · 13th Jul 2011, 10:06 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by newlite4

nd have probably sold the lead block for beer money
Neil

use a brick next time, you can't weigh them in as well as lead

richrussell · 13th Jul 2011, 11:37 am

If you live in a pre-1950's house, you probably have picture rails. It was common practice to run a bit of wire in these to give you a half-decent aerial. Then connect the earth terminal of the radio (if it has one) to a convenient radiator pipe (scrape the paint off if you need to).

Not the best in the world, but a whole lot better than nothing. Even modest 1950s sets with inbuilt frame aerials perform a lot better with a couple of metres of wire chucked out the window.

The type of wire isn't that important - but if it's a permanent outdoor setup, it wants to be something that can withstand being loaded by wind and ice and sat on by birds.

neon indicator · 13th Jul 2011, 1:00 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by newlite4

I installed a good aerial from my kitchen down to the parapet of the roof below. I used "vactite" silver plated insulated wire with porcelain egg insulators.

A few feet of nylon cord is better than the "egg" insulators. A lot cheaper.

Silver plating is good on high frequency coils. It doesn't make much difference for LW/MW/SW long wire aerials.

It might have some advantage on a resonated/tuned loop/frame aerial as the current is much higher.

Even barbed wire will work as a "long wire".

richrussell · 13th Jul 2011, 2:56 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by neon indicator

Even barbed wire will work as a "long wire".

I knew an old farmer who had a crystal set in one of his barns (some distance from the farm buildings). He used to listen to the cricket on Radio 4 LW, with the nearby couple of km of fencing forming the aerial. Claimed it was better than the radio in the house. I think it was just an excuse for him to spend some time away from his wife (whom nobody liked). Sadly when he died the barns were cleared, along with the crystal set.

Skywave · 13th Jul 2011, 4:07 pm

Interesting comment about the farmer and his fence. Of course, we don't know what aerial he was using at home to make the comparison, but his 'fence antenna' sounds like a variation on the theme of the Beverage aerial.

Al.

richrussell · 13th Jul 2011, 4:46 pm

I only once saw his barn (was up there with a friend, delivering some cattle feed), and the fence was the usual stock fencing on wooden posts with a barbed wire running about 6" above the stock fencing. I guess the stock fencing was more or less earthed, given it was partly buried in places at the bottom. The electronics engineer bit of my brain is trying to work out what effect this would have on the parallel barbed wire bit on top, being used as the antenna...

The farmhouse radio I suspect was a 1970's transistor of some sort, almost certainly with it's internal ferrite rod as the only aerial. So probably not too difficult to improve on.

13th Jul 2011, 6:31 pm

A quick google (another verb turned into an adjective) and this popped up http://www.iw5edi.com/ham-radio/?ins...re-antenna,116

Herald1360 · 14th Jul 2011, 12:20 pm

Surely "Google" started out as a noun (name for the search engine) and got used as a verb "to google". I've not encountered it as an adjective.

geofy · 14th Jul 2011, 12:51 pm

If the aerial in the diagram is used then a loop should be added to the connection to allow rain water to drip off. The word 'quick' is the adjective, the original google is a cricketing term, just as well you didn't have a googlie.

neon indicator · 14th Jul 2011, 1:44 pm

It's derived from googol, either accidental or deliberate mis-spelling of it. Started as Proper Noun and now used as verb.

Nothing to do with Cricket. Time will tell if anything to do with Krikket.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googol
http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Krikkit

geofy · 14th Jul 2011, 2:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by neon indicator

It's derived from googol, either accidental or deliberate mis-spelling of it. Started as Proper Noun and now used as verb.

Nothing to do with Cricket. Time will tell if anything to do with Krikket.

Well I concede googly not google is the cricketing term, to stay ot I don't like the brick idea it could act as a pendulum. I once built a long wire for my Dynatron Mimco, it consisted of thirty feet of 1 /1/2" sections of water pipe held up with wire guides, which looked a bit like the smoke stack stays on the Titanic. The aerial wire was attached with egg insulators.

Crystalstar · 15th Jul 2011, 9:24 am

You guys are so out of control and get of the subject so easily.
Thanks Merlinmaxwell for the website you suggested. I took a quick look and that looks to be the kind of thing I'm looking for.

Crystalstar.

15th Jul 2011, 7:20 pm

Thanks for that Crystalstar, a very pleasant afternoon can be spent putting up a 'proper' aerial and earth system, they do make a very big difference to the reception on an old radio. Electric fence suppliers have modern plastic 'egg' insulators for not much money, I got a bag of 25 for a fiver (UK).

FRANK.C · 20th Jul 2011, 7:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by richrussell

I knew an old farmer who had a crystal set in one of his barns (some distance from the farm buildings). He used to listen to the cricket on Radio 4 LW, with the nearby couple of km of fencing forming the aerial. Claimed it was better than the radio in the house. I think it was just an excuse for him to spend some time away from his wife (whom nobody liked). Sadly when he died the barns were cleared, along with the crystal set.

Just after trying this.
I have access to a electric fence wire that runs around some fields, it is approximately 1 Km long. I disconnected the fence controller from the wire and hooked up an old crystal set, for the purpose of the test I used a diode instead of the crystal.
The performance from the wire was disappointing. I could just about hear RTE1 on LW.

Using the braid of the coax that's going around the shack I can hear RTE1 allot louder. I think that the coax is picking up the signal from the mains ( the coax travels in the same conduit as the mains wiring) as with the shack disconnected from the mains there is no reception.

Maybe some form of ATU might help as this crystal set has only a variable inductance.
The connection to the wire was some where in the middle of it, with the wire traveling of in different directions around the fields.
I measured the resistance of the wire to earth is was 4 MR.

The capacitance to earth I measured with a bridge and it is 20 nF, maybe it's too high for it to work as a aerial?

Frank

newlite4 · 4th Oct 2011, 4:29 pm

A happy ending to my tale of aerial vandalism. The neighbours agreed to let me install a fifty foot aerial right down to the bottom of the gardens where there is an iron post mounted in the wall. I used electric fence insulators from Mole Valley Farmers. The installation is a good deal better than the old one being longer and further away from sources of interference.
Neil

12th Jul 2011, 10:20 pm	#1
Crystalstar Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Posts: 4	Aerial connection Hi Guys I'm new to all this, but a few months I fell in love with an old Cambridge Pye Tablegram on Trade me bought it and am restoring it. I'm good with wood as have been working with since I was eight with dads paint stripping gun. However have no electrical knowledge. I want to try to boost the range of the ariel to pick up other am stations further afeild, not sure if this is possible, can any one assist me? Had found an Indoor External AM Antenna with 1/8" (3.5mm) stereo connector is for use with the Model One* AM/FM table radio, the Model Satellite AM/FM/SIRIUS Satellite table radio, and the Music System Digital AM/FM/CD Hi-Fi System for improved AM reception. however I am not sure if you can use this sort of ariel on an old vintage radio or if you can how do you adapt it, any help any one can give me would be greatly appreciated. Crystalstar.

12th Jul 2011, 10:44 pm	#2
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,970	Re: Ariel connection Old valve radios are designed for use with a long wire aerial. Just connect the longest length of wire you can find, the longer the better. If you have a garden you can run the wire down a wooden fence or hang it between the house and a tree. If you're in a flat try running some wire around the edge of the room.

13th Jul 2011, 8:14 am	#4
chipp1968 Rest in Peace Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Somerset, UK. Posts: 2,356	Re: Aerial connection A good external earth can sometimes improve things too.Mainly it seams to get rid of a lot of interference in my experience , but has to be external.At least it does in my experience .Internal earth didn't work at all. Before I used an external aerial and earth ,my reception was so bad here that I couldn't use sets without frame aerials!

13th Jul 2011, 9:23 am	#5
newlite4 Octode Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bath, Somerset, UK. Posts: 1,806	Re: Aerial connection I installed a good aerial from my kitchen down to the parapet of the roof below. I used "vactite" silver plated insulated wire with porcelain egg insulators. The parapet end was just a lead block resting on the masonry. Only trouble is that builders re-developing the basement snipped off the wire leaving it dangling and have probably sold the lead block for beer money. Moral of this tale is, if you build your dream aerial, make sure no-one else can get at it! Neil Attached Thumbnails __________________ preserving the recent past, for the distant future.

13th Jul 2011, 11:37 am	#7
richrussell Heptode Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Selby, North Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 979	Re: Aerial connection If you live in a pre-1950's house, you probably have picture rails. It was common practice to run a bit of wire in these to give you a half-decent aerial. Then connect the earth terminal of the radio (if it has one) to a convenient radiator pipe (scrape the paint off if you need to). Not the best in the world, but a whole lot better than nothing. Even modest 1950s sets with inbuilt frame aerials perform a lot better with a couple of metres of wire chucked out the window. The type of wire isn't that important - but if it's a permanent outdoor setup, it wants to be something that can withstand being loaded by wind and ice and sat on by birds.

12th Jul 2011, 10:55 pm	#3
neon indicator Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Co. Limerick, Ireland. Posts: 1,183	I've used washing lines. Sometimes specially purchased. Used to use my Mum's even with the washing on it. Steel cored kind, not cord

13th Jul 2011, 4:07 pm	#10
Skywave Rest in Peace Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chard, South Somerset, UK. Posts: 7,457	Re: Aerial connection Interesting comment about the farmer and his fence. Of course, we don't know what aerial he was using at home to make the comparison, but his 'fence antenna' sounds like a variation on the theme of the Beverage aerial. Al.

13th Jul 2011, 4:46 pm	#11
richrussell Heptode Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Selby, North Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 979	Re: Aerial connection I only once saw his barn (was up there with a friend, delivering some cattle feed), and the fence was the usual stock fencing on wooden posts with a barbed wire running about 6" above the stock fencing. I guess the stock fencing was more or less earthed, given it was partly buried in places at the bottom. The electronics engineer bit of my brain is trying to work out what effect this would have on the parallel barbed wire bit on top, being used as the antenna... The farmhouse radio I suspect was a 1970's transistor of some sort, almost certainly with it's internal ferrite rod as the only aerial. So probably not too difficult to improve on.

13th Jul 2011, 6:31 pm	#12
Guest Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Aerial connection A quick google (another verb turned into an adjective) and this popped up http://www.iw5edi.com/ham-radio/?ins...re-antenna,116 Last edited by Mike Phelan; 14th Jul 2011 at 9:24 am. Reason: Unpoped.

14th Jul 2011, 12:20 pm	#13
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,536	Re: Aerial connection Surely "Google" started out as a noun (name for the search engine) and got used as a verb "to google". I've not encountered it as an adjective. __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

14th Jul 2011, 12:51 pm	#14
geofy Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,798	Re: Aerial connection If the aerial in the diagram is used then a loop should be added to the connection to allow rain water to drip off. The word 'quick' is the adjective, the original google is a cricketing term, just as well you didn't have a googlie.

14th Jul 2011, 1:44 pm	#15
neon indicator Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Co. Limerick, Ireland. Posts: 1,183	Re: Aerial connection It's derived from googol, either accidental or deliberate mis-spelling of it. Started as Proper Noun and now used as verb. Nothing to do with Cricket. Time will tell if anything to do with Krikket. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googol http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Krikkit

15th Jul 2011, 9:24 am	#17
Crystalstar Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Posts: 4	Re: Aerial connection You guys are so out of control and get of the subject so easily. Thanks Merlinmaxwell for the website you suggested. I took a quick look and that looks to be the kind of thing I'm looking for. Crystalstar.

15th Jul 2011, 7:20 pm	#18
Guest Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Aerial connection Thanks for that Crystalstar, a very pleasant afternoon can be spent putting up a 'proper' aerial and earth system, they do make a very big difference to the reception on an old radio. Electric fence suppliers have modern plastic 'egg' insulators for not much money, I got a bag of 25 for a fiver (UK).

4th Oct 2011, 4:29 pm	#20
newlite4 Octode Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bath, Somerset, UK. Posts: 1,806	Re: Aerial connection A happy ending to my tale of aerial vandalism. The neighbours agreed to let me install a fifty foot aerial right down to the bottom of the gardens where there is an iron post mounted in the wall. I used electric fence insulators from Mole Valley Farmers. The installation is a good deal better than the old one being longer and further away from sources of interference. Neil Attached Thumbnails __________________ preserving the recent past, for the distant future.