Acorn A5000 Keyboard Interface Details - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Zelandeth · 13th Oct 2009, 11:31 pm

Okay, here's one for you.

I'm horrifically picky about keyboards...there are a small number I like. Top of the list being the Northgate Omnikey range (have an Ultra at work). Currently using an Apple Extended II via an ADB to USB adaptor.

However, one of my favourites is the old A5000 one as pictured below, which has got a really unusual key action which I like a lot. It's not *quite* as yellowed as the photo makes it look...

...Is there however any way to make it talk to a modern PC? Never seen an adaptor like exists for ADB machines, and assume that such a thing doesn't exist...however neither have I managed to even find a pinout for the PS/2esque connector on this thing to give me an idea whether I'd be in with a chance of being able to make one.

Any ideas?

Really not sure whether this was the right section or whether it should be in modern tech...because it involves making modern tech talk to old tech...

Dave Moll · 14th Oct 2009, 4:28 pm

Never having previously tried to use my A5000 keyboard with a PC, I hadn't realised that it wasn't compatible, despite having the same connector.

If you do get an answer, I would also be interested to know whether it's possible. I suppose it depends whether it's just a matter of the pinout or different electrical requirements.

Zelandeth · 15th Oct 2009, 10:45 pm

I'd originally assumed the connectors to be different - but that was due to my hazy memory of what a PS/2 connector looked like!

The board definitely powers up when plugged in (indicator lights blink), so the +5V line and ground lines are at least where they should be. As for the rest however, I've no clue where to start to be honest!

Definitely doesn't show any signs of life however in terms of giving data to the PC that it can understand. Hmm.

I realise that some of the key legends would be wrong...can deal with that (and already do on the Apple one...though I could probably write with both enough patience and luck a custom keymap for Xorg if I really did my research)...however without being able to get it to talk to the computer, I'm a bit stuck.

jay_oldstuff · 18th Oct 2009, 9:41 pm

Think this may be a tricky one, i know the mouse from the acorn is incompatible with the pc and vice versa and i seem to remember the same controller is used in the acorn for both the keyboard and mouse. I think it has something to do with timings. it is hoever a long time since i played with the wonderfull acorn computers.

Jay

Kat Manton · 19th Oct 2009, 12:06 am

Hi,

A quick glance at the documentation on the 'kbdbabel' keyboard protocol translator project site shows that, while the connector's the same and power and ground are in the same place, that's all. The protocol's likely to be different as well.

I haven't looked beyond that but it'd seem that interfacing the Acorn keyboard to a PC is non-trivial.

Cheers, Kat

dominicbeesley · 19th Oct 2009, 12:56 pm

Yes unfortunately the A5000 uses the older Acorn protocol, the newer RiscPC and A7000 (I think) used PS/2.

I'd be interested in information on the A5000 connector though if anyone has it and I could possibly look at making a ps/2 adaptor...

Dom

OldBoffin · 19th Oct 2009, 9:40 pm

I suggest you contact Stuart Tyrrell ( they have web site) where I used to buy PS2mouse to Acorn adapters.
From memory Acorn used individual lines whereas PS2 uses Serial signals - I used to make adapter boxes for disabled people with switch controls, hence the need to change from individual signal lines into Serial information.
I still have one of these adapters in stock if interested
9 pin MiniDIN Plug to 6 way PS2 type socket ( used for PS2 Mouse to work into an Acorn computer.
Probably wrong way round for your application I fear!
OldBoffin

Kat Manton · 20th Oct 2009, 3:04 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dominicbeesley

I'd be interested in information on the A5000 connector though if anyone has it

Try the 'connectors' link under 'Vintage Keyboard Documentation' on the site I linked to in post #5...

Dave Moll · 20th Oct 2009, 11:02 am

Thanks for that info, Kat. A number of useful pinouts now acquired from there.

dominicbeesley · 20th Oct 2009, 12:44 pm

Yes, sorry Kat, I'd crossed over in posting. Looks like its already bindun.

Dom

13th Oct 2009, 11:31 pm	#1
Zelandeth Heptode Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, UK. Posts: 931	Acorn A5000 Keyboard Interface Details Okay, here's one for you. I'm horrifically picky about keyboards...there are a small number I like. Top of the list being the Northgate Omnikey range (have an Ultra at work). Currently using an Apple Extended II via an ADB to USB adaptor. However, one of my favourites is the old A5000 one as pictured below, which has got a really unusual key action which I like a lot. It's not quite as yellowed as the photo makes it look... ...Is there however any way to make it talk to a modern PC? Never seen an adaptor like exists for ADB machines, and assume that such a thing doesn't exist...however neither have I managed to even find a pinout for the PS/2esque connector on this thing to give me an idea whether I'd be in with a chance of being able to make one. Any ideas? Really not sure whether this was the right section or whether it should be in modern tech...because it involves making modern tech talk to old tech... Attached Thumbnails __________________ Zel's Lair - A random bag of vintage tech, lighting information and other assorted geekery Last edited by Zelandeth; 13th Oct 2009 at 11:35 pm. Reason: Made title more descriptive

14th Oct 2009, 4:28 pm	#2
Dave Moll Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK Posts: 6,127	Re: Acorn A5000 Keyboard Interface Details Never having previously tried to use my A5000 keyboard with a PC, I hadn't realised that it wasn't compatible, despite having the same connector. If you do get an answer, I would also be interested to know whether it's possible. I suppose it depends whether it's just a matter of the pinout or different electrical requirements. __________________ Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)

15th Oct 2009, 10:45 pm	#3
Zelandeth Heptode Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, UK. Posts: 931	Re: Acorn A5000 Keyboard Interface Details I'd originally assumed the connectors to be different - but that was due to my hazy memory of what a PS/2 connector looked like! The board definitely powers up when plugged in (indicator lights blink), so the +5V line and ground lines are at least where they should be. As for the rest however, I've no clue where to start to be honest! Definitely doesn't show any signs of life however in terms of giving data to the PC that it can understand. Hmm. I realise that some of the key legends would be wrong...can deal with that (and already do on the Apple one...though I could probably write with both enough patience and luck a custom keymap for Xorg if I really did my research)...however without being able to get it to talk to the computer, I'm a bit stuck. __________________ Zel's Lair - A random bag of vintage tech, lighting information and other assorted geekery Last edited by Zelandeth; 15th Oct 2009 at 10:56 pm.

18th Oct 2009, 9:41 pm	#4
jay_oldstuff Octode Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Hyde, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 1,074	Re: Acorn A5000 Keyboard Interface Details Think this may be a tricky one, i know the mouse from the acorn is incompatible with the pc and vice versa and i seem to remember the same controller is used in the acorn for both the keyboard and mouse. I think it has something to do with timings. it is hoever a long time since i played with the wonderfull acorn computers. Jay __________________ The light at the end of the tunnel is probably the headlight of an oncoming train

19th Oct 2009, 12:56 pm	#6
dominicbeesley Octode Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,885	Re: Acorn A5000 Keyboard Interface Details Yes unfortunately the A5000 uses the older Acorn protocol, the newer RiscPC and A7000 (I think) used PS/2. I'd be interested in information on the A5000 connector though if anyone has it and I could possibly look at making a ps/2 adaptor... Dom

19th Oct 2009, 12:06 am	#5
Kat Manton Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,700	Re: Acorn A5000 Keyboard Interface Details Hi, A quick glance at the documentation on the 'kbdbabel' keyboard protocol translator project site shows that, while the connector's the same and power and ground are in the same place, that's all. The protocol's likely to be different as well. I haven't looked beyond that but it'd seem that interfacing the Acorn keyboard to a PC is non-trivial. Cheers, Kat

19th Oct 2009, 9:40 pm	#7
OldBoffin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK. Posts: 54	Re: Acorn A5000 Keyboard Interface Details I suggest you contact Stuart Tyrrell ( they have web site) where I used to buy PS2mouse to Acorn adapters. From memory Acorn used individual lines whereas PS2 uses Serial signals - I used to make adapter boxes for disabled people with switch controls, hence the need to change from individual signal lines into Serial information. I still have one of these adapters in stock if interested 9 pin MiniDIN Plug to 6 way PS2 type socket ( used for PS2 Mouse to work into an Acorn computer. Probably wrong way round for your application I fear! OldBoffin

20th Oct 2009, 11:02 am	#9
Dave Moll Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK Posts: 6,127	Re: Acorn A5000 Keyboard Interface Details Thanks for that info, Kat. A number of useful pinouts now acquired from there. __________________ Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)

20th Oct 2009, 12:44 pm	#10
dominicbeesley Octode Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,885	Re: Acorn A5000 Keyboard Interface Details Yes, sorry Kat, I'd crossed over in posting. Looks like its already bindun. Dom