332L - problems reassembling dial mechanism

[LondonLeigh]

Hi,

I'm new to the site and in need of assistance please. I've just bought an old 332L. It's my first phone and is truly beautiful and in excellent condition. The only problem is that I rather misguidedly unscrewed the dial to get access to clean the phone. I then unscrewed the brass face plate and in doing so the dial mechanism sprang back and is now out of sync. I cant figure out how to reattach and hope that you can offer some advice.

Feel very foolish as it was in perfect condition until I got hold of it. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[Darren-UK]

By "brass faceplate" I presume you mean the spindle faceplate; this is about 15mm diameter and has a central threaded hole for the finger plate.

A possible snag is that the dial return stop is on a metal bracket which also locates the governor gear and clutch. You may have to remove all this, or remove and refit the faceplate, if you reassemble wrongly.

This can be fiddly but it easier if you've got three hands

Having reassembled you then need to check the dial return speed and governor operation, but let's get the mechanism reassembled first.

[LondonLeigh]

Yikes. This is sounding complicated. I'm looking at the words...looking at the phone...scratching my head.

OK. So I see the spring housing. It has the central threaded hole for the finger plate and also two smaller threaded holes either side - it was after removing these screws that the mechanism 'un-wound'. The housing also has a locater pin.

Not sure how I would begin to 'remove all of this'. Can't see any more screws to undo and no visible means of dismantling further. Any further pointers?

Many thanks for your help.

[Darren-UK]

First of all, can you provide a picture of the dial in its wrecked, sorry dismantled, state? If it's an original dial, that means a GPO dial, it will be either a Type 10 or a Type 12. The two differed slightly, one relevant difference I think being that the bracket locating the governor gear differed. If you can't provide a picture then look underneath at the rim where it will say what type it is.

Unless another member can describe more fluently than myself how to reassemble, I will dismantle one of my dials and reassemble whilst taking pictures to accompany the description.

This is irrelevant now but may be useful in future, but all you needed to do was remove the label retaining clip, remove window and label, remove central screw and lift off the finger plate. That would allow cleaning of the outer-front of the dial unit. To remove the dial assembly complete; remove baseplate and you will see an angled screw near the front of the casing. Release that screw, then twist the dial to release it and lift away from casing as far as the wiring allows. You then need to disconnect the wiring to the dial, noting which wire goes where.

If the telephone is known to have been converted for PST and is in full working order, cleaning can be achieved with everything in situ (dial finger plate excepted). So please do not dismantle anything else unless absolutely necessary.

Meantime, have a nosey at this page and in particular dials 10 and 12.

[Patrick Dixon]

I made this mistake with my phone a while ago. I didn't get any responses to my cry for help, but I managed to work it out myself. Unfortunately, I can't remember the details, but it was fairly straightforward after playing around with it for a while.

[Darren-UK]

Right. Following on from post #4, I've dismantled the front portion of a Type 10 dial (or No.10, if you like). Ignore the fact that the instrument depicted is a different model to yours.

The first image shows the components removed and what they should consist of; finger plate, finger plate retaining screw, alpha-numeric plate (or alpha only), retaining wire for the latter, dial label, label window, label retaining clip.

The second image shows the upper dial mechanism. This is the dial in its 'at rest' position. Note the 'stop screw' at the 12 o'clock position on the brass gearwheel.

The third image shows the stop screw released to clear the stop and rotated anticlockwise to the limit of the spring tension. You should hold the gear/faceplate when releasing the stop screw in order to dampen the effect of the uncoiling spring.

Fourth image. Removing the two faceplate screws leaves the faceplate and gear to rotate independant of each other. Note the relative position of the stop screw in this image, I've deliberately moved it well out of position for the image.

Presumably this is where you find yourself now. My next post shows reassembly.

[Darren-UK]

First image of this post. With the spring initially at its slack position, move gear and faceplate to roughly the positions shown. Do not rotate gear and faceplate anticlockwise, ie set them in such as way that as soon as you begin to turn the assembly clockwise you begin to feel anticlockwise spring motion. Note the two faceplate screw holes are aligned.

Second image. With faceplate screws inserted, rotate assembly clockwise until the stop screw has cleared the stop. The stop screw is around the 1 o'clock position in my image. Hold that position and screw in the stop screw. Release so the stop screw sits against the stop.

Third image. Refit fingerplate only and dial 0 as shown. Release and at the same time say "One thousand one hundred and ten". If the dial hits the stop just as you say "ten" then the dial speed is near enough correct. If it isn't, you need to investigate why. You may need to go back, release the stop screw and give the spring an extra turn (unlikely and not really the done thing) or you may need to adjust the governor (possible and the usual cause of a slow or fast dial).

Fourth image. If all is well and the dial returns at the correct speed and at a uniform speed, complete the assembly as shown. Do not forget to fit the retaining wire for the alpha- numeric plate.

If you look at the link I gave in an earlier post, you'll see the proper GPO terminology and maintenance procedures for these dials.

You telephone may not have the No.10 dial as per mine, it could have a No.12. If it has, you will see the bracket on the left differs. As I said way back, I think the dial stop is on that bracket. Procedure is much the same as herein, but if you get the stop the wrong side of the bracket you'll have to start again or remove and refit the bracket and then check you've reset the governor drive correctly.

I have telephones with No.12 dials here, but not knowing yet what you have I've used a No.10 to illustrate, so don't take for gospel what I say above about the No.12 as I'm going by memory.

Hope that helps anyway.

[LondonLeigh]

Many thanks for your help with this. I've attached a photo as you seem to be a step ahead of me. I can't identify how to remove the white numbered faceplate in order to get at the mechanism. The photo shows where I'm at.

I'm actually out of the country from tomorrow with an early flight and so can't pay as much attention to this as your detailed response merits. When I'm back next week I'll have a proper bash at it, but, in the meantime, thank you.

[Darren-UK]

There should be a wire retaining ring, see first image in post #6, which secures the plate in place. From your image it's difficult to say if it's there or not; it appears to be when looking to the right of the finger stop, otherwise it appears not to be.

If it's there, remove it and the alpha-numeric plate will simply lift out. Ditto the latter if it's not there.

All that aside, you obviously haven't disturbed the dial stop screw as you cannot yet access it. Therefore you ought to be able to turn the faceplate clockwise until the screw holes line up, then simply reinsert the two screws and the dial's then back in working order.

[JCM3000]

It looks like LL has detached the main gear wheel from the main spindle which would have allowed the spindle to spin (as the stop post is part of the main gear wheel), unwinding the main spring. He'll have to realign the spindle and gear wheel screw holes and do the two small screws back up, reattach the fingerplate, undo the stop screw, rewind the spring, allow to return one revolution then tighten the stop screw . . .

Might as well strip it down, clean the parts and the contacts and re-oil while you're at it LL!

[LondonLeigh]

Again, many thanks. Back in the country and so will give this a go this evening.

Cheers.

[LondonLeigh]

Only just managed to get round to this but pleased to report success. All working and as good as new...or as good as the 1940's at least.

Many thanks for all the help.

[Darren-UK]

That's good then, well done and thanks for letting us know