Interesting shed find by NMOC

[SiriusHardware]

Difficult to determine exactly which category to put this in but since the National Museum Of Computing are involved, I've placed it here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36401663

Anyone got the other bit?

[m0cemdave]

See here for further info:
http://www.tnmoc.org/news/notes-muse...2missing-motor

... and while you're at it, the whole website is well worth viewing:
http://www.tnmoc.org

If planning a visit (well worth it), check the opening times first:
http://www.tnmoc.org/visit/opening-times

The NMOC is adjacent to the Bletchley Park Museum (although they are two separate museums with their own entrance fees etc) and is about 150 yards from Bletchley railway station.

[G4XWDJim]

Originally Posted by SiriusHardware

Difficult to determine exactly which category to put this in but since the National Museum Of Computing are involved, I've placed it here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36401663

Anyone got the other bit?

I hope if they do find the 'other bit' that it's extremely expensive.

The pair who thought it was a big joke at a car boot sale to pay the unknowing owner £9.50 should be ashamed of themselves. It's a disgrace.

I think that it's reprehensible that Bletchley Park as a responsible organisation failed to provide the unknowing owner with a reasonable sum in compensation and should go back right now and pay an appropriate amount.

The fact that the owner didn't know what it was is no defence.

Jim

[wireless_john]

I agree with you Jim. Not a nice thing to do at all. As you say, they should be ashamed of themselves.

John

I think/hope the seller was told what it really was (if I had it and was told what it was I would forgo the £9.50), but that wouldn't make a good news story. I hope someone from the NMOC clears this up.

[G4XWDJim]

If the seller was given the choice and had she been altruistically minded she might well have been pleased to see an important museum gain a useful artefact. The true value however could represent a very useful amount of money for someone knowing the desirability of these items.

All too often at rallies and radio events people can be heard saying "he didn't know what it was, it only cost me a fiver". Not illegal but immoral.

I often watch the TV programmes with Drew Pritchard the antiques dealer and am impressed by his honesty where he frequently tells someone that they are not asking him for enough money and pays them more.

Perhaps that is too much to expect but I would like to see a more satisfactory and public conclusion to this episode.

Jim

[ms660]

So far as I can make out I don't actually know what transpired/said etc.

Lawrence.

[Station X]

Whilst it's true the seller of this item has been paid less than its true worth, the NMOC volunteers haven't made any monetary profit for themselves.

As an alternative they could have suggested that the seller sell the item through one of the big auction houses. No one knows what it's worth, so the chances are it would have disappeared into some rich private collector's collection and the likes of you and I would probably never get to see it. I doubt any museum could afford to buy it.

I'm not condoning what happened by the way.

[Radio Wrangler]

The sellers might have been happy to donate the thing, so that it could be used to educate people. But it would have had to be their decision with them honestly appraised of its significance and probable worth for me to feel comfortable about it.

David

[Paul Stenning]

If any of you saw a valuable radio or whatever at a car boot sale for £10 would you offer the seller its value or would you just pay the £10 and consider it your lucky day?

Unless you can say with all honesty that you would offer the actual value then you can't really criticise the museum.

[dseymo1]

It's a difficult one, but I think there's at least some responsibility on the part of the seller to do some research if they want to get the best price. On the other hand, to many people this sort of thing is just 'a load of old junk', and are happy to get a tenner rather than have the hassle of tipping it; if someone else attaches a greater value to it, so be it.
I've sometimes won items at 'real world' auctions for a fraction of their value to me and other enthusiasts, as a sole bidder (e.g. two pairs of Tannoys for £10). That's what they were worth to anyone showing an interest at the time. The same applies to the Lorenz machine.
In a way, it's the converse of the '£200 Dansette' syndrome.

[dave walsh]

Personally, I agree with Paul on an individual level-even though I have actually offered more at a Car Boot Sale to persons who were unaware-but only if they were nice-yes really

Two points-this is a large organisation with [probaly] great resources and secondly...didn't they get rid of a number of long term volunteers in very distressing circumstances to suit a Corporate re-brand or was that another Museum? I was really unhappy to see elderly men in tears on the 6pm News and would have avoided that outcome if I was running things whatever the rights and wrongs-so they don't start off with a clean sheet really.

My comparator [as they say at an Employment Tribunal] would be Wealthy Animal Charitys. When a deceased person leaves money to them, often at the very last minute, instead of the expectant relatives [who then challenge the will] they throw great legal resources in to retain the money, disingenuously using their need to resource animal protection as a justification. How would we feel if we were in that family's position I wonder? The only professional, dignified and appropriate thing to do is walk away at that point or at least consider a compromise but they don't seem to.

It may be significant as well that two Museums on the same site don't appear to have a lot to do with each but maybe I'm wrong about that
I'd be happy to hear anything to the contrary!

Dave W

"I say how much you want for that?
I go into the Store-
Man says I want three dollars
I say ok will you take four?"

Po Boy- from the album 'Love and Theft' released on 9/11 2001 Bob Dylan [of course]

[yesnaby]

No comment, but just compare the price with this -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW2-RADIO-...p2047675.l2557

[M0FYA Andy]

Originally Posted by dave walsh

Two points-this is a large organisation with [probaly] great resources and secondly...didn't they get rid of a number of long term volunteers in very distressing circumstances to suit a Corporate re-brand or was that another Museum? I was really unhappy to see elderly men in tears on the 6pm News and would have avoided that outcome if I was running things whatever the rights and wrongs-so they don't start off with a clean sheet really.

Surely this was the Bletchley Park Trust, and NOT the Museum of Computing?
As far as I know they are completely independent organisations.
Andy

[dave walsh]

Thanks Andy. I'm very grateful for that correction. It was indeed the Bletchley Park Trust that dismissed their long serving volunteers so my sincere apologies to them. I was very wrong to identify them with the doubtful sale of the item in question. I can only say that I'm sorry for my error. It was a lamentable lack of concentration after a very long day. I'm sure that, in terms of their own actions, they had a very good reason-whatever it was?

On the other hand, I think that most of my other points re Corporatisation will still apply [hopefully]. Maybe it's the proximity of the two organisations that confused me in the first place and the similar behaviours Perhaps I'm even wrong about that? Anyone who has seen the BBC4 series "Inside The Museum" will know what I'm talking about.

Dave W

[Radio Wrangler]

Originally Posted by Paul Stenning

If any of you saw a valuable radio or whatever at a car boot sale for £10 would you offer the seller its value or would you just pay the £10 and consider it your lucky day?

Unless you can say with all honesty that you would offer the actual value then you can't really criticise the museum.

I stand by what I wrote. A while ago on this very site, a piece of measuring equipment was up for sale on behalf of a lady who'd been left with it and I really did argue that a fair price was double what was being asked. In the end, we compromised on a half way point. I understand Paul's point, but I have to live with myself afterwards, and to me it's important to know that I've acted fairly.

I must admit that I saw an unusual make and model of camera lens in the window of a very snobby camera shop. They probably didn't know anything about it, they were only interested in stupendously expensive german things with little red dots on them. It was priced a lot lower than its real worth, and the shop owner said it had been there a while and had come in a job lot that had been mostly of their preferred make. I checked it for scratches and flaws, tried it on my camera and got my card out. I made sure I was down the street and round the corner before I started skipping and singing and punching the air. But this was a business and they could have done a better job if they'd not dismissed it as beneath contempt. Pretty certainly they'd priced it to make a profit on what they attributed to it from the cost of the lot they'd bought. My conscience rests easy.

David

[Radio Wrangler]

Yesnaby's link is to a Creed model 7B teleprinter, a Collins TCS, an HRO and a BC221, none of which were rare. Thousands were dumped on the market.

The Lorenz crypto machine is much rarer and has a higher level of historic significance than the enigma machine. If auctioned on the open market with the publicity it would get, I think the price would be higher than an enigma - had it been complete. Without its motor, who knows? I would still expect it to be very substantial.

I agree with Graham that I'd rather it were on public view in a museum than hidden in a private collection.

David

[dave walsh]

As you perhaps imply David, it boils down to the attitude on both sides rather than a fixed rule By the way, that program is actually "Behind The Scenes At The Museum" One episode is on You Tube I think!
Dave

I was probaly thinking of-

"Inside the Museum infinity goes up on trial
Voices echo this is what...
Salvation should be like after a while" Visions of Joanna!

[Karen O]

Well, caveat emptor and all that but there is something called 'obtaining goods by deception'. But was the seller deceived in this case?

[dseymo1]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

The Lorenz crypto machine is much rarer and has a higher level of historic significance than the enigma machine. If auctioned on the open market with the publicity it would get, I think the price would be higher than an enigma - had it been complete. Without its motor, who knows? I would still expect it to be very substantial.
David

As I understand it, the Lorenz keyboard was offered on eBay, which effectively is the open market. Admittedly, it seems to have been offered at a fixed price, but was clearly not snapped-up by anyone, as there was time for the museum's representative to go and inspect it before agreeing to buy.
Had the seller been dissatisfied with the price, I feel sure that this would have been reported, as it would have added significant interest to the story. Straightforward journalism: "How did you feel when you realised what ir was...?".
I'm off to the car boot sale now, to see what bargains there might be. Isn't that much the same thing? One man's junk is another's treasure; that's the way of the world.