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Old 19th Feb 2024, 7:31 pm   #981
Pfraser
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winston_1 View Post
The X didn’t have a reflector. The 2 shorter rods were a director and faced the transmitter. The longer rods at the rear were the active dipole.

Were Xes ever used for horizontal polarisation?
In all the 40-odd years of my interest in aerials and related matters, I have never seen an X mounted horizontally. I have seen the odd weather-beaten specimen leaning over at 90° and thus horizontal in old age!
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Old 19th Feb 2024, 8:19 pm   #982
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfraser;1621160

In all the 40-odd years of my interest in aerials and related matters, I have never seen an X mounted horizontally. I [I
have[/I] seen the odd weather-beaten specimen leaning over at 90° and thus horizontal in old age!
Me neither!
What I have seen however is one of those ubiquitous Band II halo aerials mounted vertically!
Looked decididly odd, but I like to think it may have shown some intelligence on the part of the rigger.

Imagine if it's the only type his firm allowed him to carry, and the TX was VP only, rather than mixed.
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Old 19th Feb 2024, 10:41 pm   #983
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfraser;1621160

In all the 40-odd years of my interest in aerials and related matters, I have never seen an X mounted horizontally. I [I
have[/I] seen the odd weather-beaten specimen leaning over at 90° and thus horizontal in old age!
Me neither!
What I have seen however is one of those ubiquitous Band II halo aerials mounted vertically!
Looked decididly odd, but I like to think it may have shown some intelligence on the part of the rigger.

Imagine if it's the only type his firm allowed him to carry, and the TX was VP only, rather than mixed.
Correct me if I am wrong but I remember as a nipper in the late 70s a very rare vertically orientated 'halo' in a diameter similar in size to the more usual Yagi type 405 line aerials on a neighbouring house in the Camberwell area of south London. I recall the single hula-hoop like element had a small straighter dipole that was to the side of the circular element, inside the hoop. I recall it was on a mast with with an X type as described a few posts above and orientated in the same direction.
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Last edited by sexton_mallard; 19th Feb 2024 at 10:46 pm. Reason: Corrections.
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Old 20th Feb 2024, 8:48 am   #984
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Hi Dom
I think is might have been made by J_Beam. A aerial rigger from Shrewsbury
used to use these. Time period would be in the early 60's, possible the last
band 1/3 aerial before the time 3 program uhf started. Sorry cannot remember
the mod No, seem to remember that it worked well on CH8 Lit And CH 4 S/c.
Derrick
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Old 20th Feb 2024, 9:57 am   #985
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

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Hi Dom
I think is might have been made by J_Beam. A aerial rigger from Shrewsbury
used to use these. Time period would be in the early 60's, possible the last
band 1/3 aerial before the time 3 program uhf started. Sorry cannot remember
the mod No, seem to remember that it worked well on CH8 Lit And CH 4 S/c.
Derrick
Thanks Derrick. I think this is the one in this image taken from a post from Richard/Mr Moose - thanks! (https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...4&postcount=21). Not 100% sure if it was the same aerial to be honest as this is from the late 60s.

I think it is 'Nov' in this image below.
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Old 20th Feb 2024, 12:42 pm   #986
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Back to the 'X' aerial. I have turned up this.

Steve
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Old 20th Feb 2024, 4:15 pm   #987
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

The X antennas I remember taking apart in the 70s generally had the two forward facing elements and the lower of the rear pair strapped together and connected to the braid of the coax while the coax inner went to the upper rear leg.

Always vertically polarised, and aimed at Sutton Coldfield
.
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Old 20th Feb 2024, 11:38 pm   #988
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

I did go on a little Google Map trip around Shrewsbury on the possibility of finding a 'halo' survivor and straight away I found a different type which is certainly out the ordinary.

EDIT: A 2nd 'Arrow' in the same street!
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Old 21st Feb 2024, 1:59 pm   #989
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

My parents house had one of those bent H type aerials.I understand it works like a dipole + reflector on band 1, & a third harmonic sort of gubbins on band 3, (the third harmonic trick) saw a few round the Nottingham area but never saw a band 3 yagi on the same mast. It worked as good as the neighbours H + 5...
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Old 21st Feb 2024, 4:34 pm   #990
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sexton_mallard View Post

Thanks Derrick. I think this is the one in this image taken from a post from Richard/Mr Moose - thanks! (https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...4&postcount=21). Not 100% sure if it was the same aerial to be honest as this is from the late 60s.

I think it is 'Nov' in this image below.
Dom, that J Beam "November" vertical loop aerial is given the name "Q Beam" in the image.

I've seen it described elsewhere thus.

"The Q Beam vertical loop is a new anti-ghost aerial for use in density populated areas 15-20 miles from BBC1 transmitters.
The Q Beam is only one third the size of the standard H or X Band I aerial, and employs a Gamma-match."
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Old 3rd Mar 2024, 2:30 am   #991
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On a recent trip to the pretty town of Birr in the Irish midlands, I was intrigued by this busy rooftop with a veritable archaeology of aerials.

To the front was a vertically polarised 4-element Band I Yagi for channel 3 or 4 pointing south east. At the back were the apparent remnants of a vertically polarised Band 3 aerial possibly directed at RTÉ Mount Leinster, while to the right there was a group B pointing north towards Cairn Hill and an MMDS dish directed east.

The Band I aerial mystified me. RTÉ was on Band I from Maghera 1963 to 1999 but that was horizontally polarised and to the west of the aerial location.

All I can think of it was that it was directed at Wenvoe or Sutton Coldfield. That's huge distance (368km) and I can't imagine the residents of the house below ever received reliable BBC.
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Old 4th Mar 2024, 12:09 pm   #992
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Re the Irish aerial stack:

Could the possible Band I (Irish Channel B) aerial actually be an FM aerial?

If it is mounted on a 2 inch diam pole then I feel (without the benefit of a ruler to confirm dimension ratios on the screen) that it seems to have Band II dimensions.

Last edited by SteveCG; 4th Mar 2024 at 12:10 pm. Reason: added info
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Old 4th Mar 2024, 12:33 pm   #993
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

The folded dipole is obviously the driven element, yet there is a bit of untenanted boom to the left. The currently leftmost element seems longer than the rightmost so this suggests the rightmost as a director, making the left a reflector. Room for two reflectors? It seems a bit odd. Maybe we're looking at a frankenantenna made up somewhat randomly from old parts?

Was FM broadcast back in the day vertically polarised in that area?

David
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Old 5th Mar 2024, 1:15 am   #994
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Thank you SteveCG and Radio Wrangler - I think you have loved the mystery! A bit of Googling suggests that almost all FM radio transmitters in Ireland use vertical polarisation. So I suspect it is in fact a Band II aerial, pointing at Mt Leinster.

A Band II aerial has always been a pretty rare sight - the few I have seen have been in the Dublin area for BBC from Divis. They are invariably horizontally polarised though that may indicate their age rather than current requirements.
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Old 9th Mar 2024, 11:06 am   #995
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Here's a well preserved example I found on Street View in Reading when looking up old haunts. Aimed at Crystal Palace/Croydon, channels 1 and 9. I worked opposite in a service department, long gone, from 1972. It was probably at least 12 years old then!!
Also in Reading, I noticed the Antiference UHF aerial looking at the Hannington transmitter, installed on the original 1950's pole for my parents first colour set in 1971 is still in very good condition.
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Old 9th Mar 2024, 12:49 pm   #996
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

On the first picture is that a VHF/FM aerial mounted below the TV aerials but pointing in the same direction suggesting towards Wrotham
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Old 9th Mar 2024, 1:13 pm   #997
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Yes Simon, the band 2 aerial looking at Wrotham has also been there for at least 50 years to my knowledge.
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Old 10th Mar 2024, 1:05 am   #998
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

I use to live not far from that antenna many years ago. Wasn't into ham radio then so didn't know about the beacon. May not even have been there then. We have been here for 54 years.

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Old 11th Mar 2024, 1:40 pm   #999
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sexton_mallard View Post
I did go on a little Google Map trip around Shrewsbury on the possibility of finding a 'halo' survivor and straight away I found a different type which is certainly out the ordinary.

EDIT: A 2nd 'Arrow' in the same street!
Hi Dom
Thanks for looking the aerial in you pic is a Belling & Lee 927 ( comely called a windswept).There were two visions of this type. sorry I Can't remember what
was different about the MKT 2 one but seem to remember it was to do with
the matching stubs that ran in parallel with the boom . This type of aerial could
only be used on ch 4/ch8 (S/C - Lit) as far as I know it was never used on any other Ch combinations.
About two years ago taking a walk over Grinshill (near Clive) there was one of these mounted on a building Near the top , still looking good even after all this time.
Derrick
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Old 15th Mar 2024, 10:50 pm   #1000
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

I spotted this well preserved example in Borrowash, Derby.
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