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Old 30th Jun 2021, 1:15 pm   #1
Mach One
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Default Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

I have been able to obtain one of these king of portable radios and see it is something of a retirement project. I had one forty years ago to use for a while and would love to get it fully ship-shape if possible.

There are a number of faults with it so far and the first one that I would like help with is to do with the dial lamps as it were. I am aware that some have had success with using high-brightness LEDs but if at all possible I would love to fit original incandescent lamps. It will not get so much use that I expect to have to fit such lamps again in my lifetime...

I need one for the FM band (7v 80ma) and one for the signal strength meter (7v 30ma) - the values I have gleaned from the German language service manual that I have. I have attached pictures of the ones that I have removed that do not work.

It's a sign of the times that these bulbs seem to have been removed from pretty well all normal sources (RS et. al.). Any suggestions?

Also, there is a fault that I believe that it has which affects at least sensitivity on the LW band. I can find no obvious signs that would account for it, such as the coil on the ferrite rod having moved or a disconnection in the wires somewhere. I will soon have a look at the voltages surrounding the first RF section of the set if I can access it. But are there any known issues that people have come across with regard to this?
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Old 30th Jun 2021, 3:26 pm   #2
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Default Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

There are sellers on eBay (usually German) who sell sets of bulbs for the different Grundig radios and tape recorders. IME they don’t mention values or sell in bulk which makes it rather expensive with postage and now, probably VAT.

Has anyone discovered a uk seller of these particular bulbs?

Peter
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Old 30th Jun 2021, 7:15 pm   #3
60 oldjohn
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Default Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

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Originally Posted by Mach One View Post

Also, there is a fault that I believe that it has which affects at least sensitivity on the LW band. I can find no obvious signs that would account for it, such as the coil on the ferrite rod having moved or a disconnection in the wires somewhere. I will soon have a look at the voltages surrounding the first RF section of the set if I can access it. But are there any known issues that people have come across with regard to this?

I presume you have cleaned and worked the WC switch?

John.
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Old 30th Jun 2021, 7:24 pm   #4
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Default Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

I haven't cleaned it, but I have switched it and pressed it a lot to see if that affected the signal. It doesn't. But I take the point. It's something that I can do - I have the cleaner somewhere. Any advice on its application?

The lack of sensitivity seems to affect the lower bands which all share the same selection of oscillator and RF section as it were and IF. I have not yet found any evidence as far as the higher SW bands are concerned which have a different IF frequency. Although the sensitivity is low the level of hiss that I would expect from the set at the same time is high enough to suggest to me that the IF / IFs is/are working properly. FM performs brilliantly, which on this set is exceptional anyway.

The telescopic antenna is broken and beyond repair as far as I can see. I would not expect to find a replacement for that at a reasonable price, unfortunately...

I have followed the advice for eBay and found some bulbs that look good and that have not broken the bank. We'll see if they work out as good as they look.
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Old 1st Jul 2021, 3:16 pm   #5
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Default Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

I have restored s few "Concert Boy 1100" sets, which suffer from the usual seized tuning gang pinion bearing and an inadequtely (voltage) rated smoothing capacitor which fails short circuit, as stock faults.

Following restoration, I have found the alignment to be generally good - with the exception that the aerial coils on the ferrite rod need to be moved by about 3mm to achieve optimum AM performance. This has been the case on more than one set. As the original wax seals were undisturbed, I think it's possible that over a long period of time the permeability of the rod has drifted a bit. Once corrected, these sets work really well.

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Old 1st Jul 2021, 5:27 pm   #6
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Default Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

Thank you, Leon,

I accidentally found that the LW coil moved very easily but the signal strength was not particularly changed. I am beginning to think of something that makes the tuned circuit not tuned, and if it is across all the lower ranges I would obviously suspect something not allowing the tuning capacitor to do its job.

This might well be a long-lasting thread as I gradually work through the set...

As for Concert Boy 1100s - also brilliant sets of the period and worth restoring...
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Old 5th Jul 2021, 9:48 am   #7
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Default Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

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Originally Posted by Mach One View Post
The lack of sensitivity seems to affect the lower bands which all share the same selection of oscillator and RF section as it were and IF. I have not yet found any evidence as far as the higher SW bands are concerned which have a different IF frequency. Although the sensitivity is low the level of hiss that I would expect from the set at the same time is high enough to suggest to me that the IF / IFs is/are working properly. FM performs brilliantly, which on this set is exceptional anyway.
This probably sounds obvious but I take it that the antenna switch (far right) is not depressed? Switching to external antenna does considerably reduce sensitivity for LW/MW and requires a suitable external antenna to be connected.

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Old 5th Jul 2021, 9:54 am   #8
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Default Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

Thank you for the suggestion...

Yes, I have had one of these to use before (40 years ago...) and had an external wire antenna attached to that model then.

The switch does work and is in the normal 'internal' position. I'm afraid that I am a bit slow working on this one but I will be checking the switches next. I have my Servisol 'Super 10' at the ready...
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Old 5th Jul 2021, 12:05 pm   #9
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Default Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

I mentioned that only because I ran into that problem and didn't realise what was going on until I eventually noticed that the switch had inadvertently got pushed in.

It certainly might be worth giving the switches a clean. A number of them affect that part of the circuit - Y (ant), LW, MW, K1, K2, K3..10 and U. Of these, only K3..10 seems to affect parts common to the bands LW thu K2, in particular r10-r12, s10-s12 and r4-r6. The contacts on the U switch would seem to be OK since FM works as apparently does K3-K10. The individual band switches would seem to affect only the relevant band. The Y switch (v7-v9) would affect both LW and MW, but since you say the switch works and that K1/K2 bands are affected as well, then that would seem to eliminate those contacts.

The common points that I can see for all 4 tuned circuits are T10 as well as T11 and T12 and components immediately around them including the IF transformer to the right of T12 on the circuit diagram. It might be worth checking voltage levels around those transistors against those marked on the circuit diagram. Also if the line going from R401 to R555/C560 is AGC, then it might be worth checking that C560 is not shorted. It is likely a tantalum cap. I would have thought that a fault here would affect K3-K10 as well, except that the resistance back to T10b is significantly lower than to T4b so the effect on the two groups of bands may not be the same.

I have to agree that FM works very well on these radios.

Incidentally, I would be interested to know whether anyone has used the SSB accessory and how well it works.

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Old 8th Jul 2021, 3:07 pm   #10
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Default Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

Thank you, WaveyDipole for taking the time for that detailed reply!

I have managed to spend a significant amount of time on this set today but not really got too much further. I have checked the switch contacts and the various voltages that you have suggested and can find no real problem with them. Although I suspected a switch contact issue at first no amount of friction cleaning has brought a resolution. I have yet to go down the switch cleaner route but as the switches do not seem to have very accessible contacts I am reluctant to try spraying the set and making a mess of the circuitry just yet.

But - I have had two occasions, one yesterday and one today, when the set suddenly without warning came good! It lasted briefly and went again when I attempted to see if it would stay when I switched the various band switches and checked to see which bands were suddenly better and so on. The effect of it coming and going was accompanied by a click which suggested something suddenly coming to life. Radio Four LW which has been the test signal as it were went from reading between 1 and 2 on the meter and very hissy to between 4 and 5 and nice and clear.

I checked Radio Caroline in MW which in the fault condition is almost unreadable and that was weak and when the set was working properly it was perfectly listenable and better than any other portable that I currently have. I was excited but no sooner than I had tried to switch the various switches it had gone back to its fault condition and has remained like this for the last two hours or so.

I had just decided to make a note of all the voltages under fault conditions and so I was able at least to make notes on four of them with the set working and have been able to compare them with the fault condition. All except one are in the ball park region of what they should be - this with the set is tuned to a station. There is no indication that I can find if the set should be tuned or not tuned to anything as far as I can tell for measuring the voltages.

The voltage that did change was the one across R402. The manual says 0.55, in the fault condition it is 0.43 and when working was either 1.4v or 0.14v - I suspect the latter. I'm afraid that I suspect that I misread it as 1.4v before the fault condition returned and I have not been able to check it again since. The meter is a Fluke 73 digital voltmeter.

I can not work on this every day but am determined to try and get to the bottom of this and value all your various inputs and patience...

Out of interest, when I had the use of that set 40 years ago it came with such an SSB unit and it did work, but as I have little interest in amateur radio listening I never used it. I would imagine with the various issues surrounding tuning of such signals on this set and the lack of crystal control or digital tuning it would have been hard to get the tuning perfectly aligned to hear the signals nicely.
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Old 8th Jul 2021, 11:22 pm   #11
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Default Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

Intermittent driver transistor in the output stage Or possibly one of the output pair.
I suggest starting there.
Les.
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Old 8th Jul 2021, 11:35 pm   #12
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Default Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

I have had intermittent partially shorting (disk) ceramic decoupling caps on Grundigs (all from memory long time back). They as you describe "click in and click out", dragging down the supply rail. But,not totally short.
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Old 9th Jul 2021, 8:22 am   #13
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Default Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

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But - I have had two occasions, one yesterday and one today, when the set suddenly without warning came good! It lasted briefly and went again when I attempted to see if it would stay when I switched the various band switches and checked to see which bands were suddenly better and so on. The effect of it coming and going was accompanied by a click which suggested something suddenly coming to life. Radio Four LW which has been the test signal as it were went from reading between 1 and 2 on the meter and very hissy to between 4 and 5 and nice and clear.
In line with what Cruisin Marine says, it might be worth de-soldering a leg on C560 or C475 to see if the problem goes away. I have also on rare occasions come across noisy and intermittent small signal transistors. Although I think it unlikely as these are not being pushed particularly hard, but if the test with the capacitors does not change anything then it might be worth temporarily substituting T10.

It could also be a dry joint or cracked track somewhere. The section of circuit around T10 is on the PCB with the majority of the switches so mechanical stress could be a factor. Mine had a similar intermittent problem on the FM band. It would be quiet at power up then suddenly burst into life for a short while only to go quiet again sometime later. Eventually the problem was traced to a section in the shielded FM tuner unit. There was no obvious cause or faulty component but the problem was cured by simply re-flowing a number of joints on that section of the PCB. There is some mechanical tension on that part of the board due to the push/pull of the dial cord on the shaft of the tuning capacitor while the tuning control is being operated which may have been a factor, or it may simply have been ageing of the joints. I don't know. Intermittent faults like these can make fault-finding a little tricky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach One View Post
Out of interest, when I had the use of that set 40 years ago it came with such an SSB unit and it did work, but as I have little interest in amateur radio listening I never used it. I would imagine with the various issues surrounding tuning of such signals on this set and the lack of crystal control or digital tuning it would have been hard to get the tuning perfectly aligned to hear the signals nicely.
I have seen them pop up occasionally on eBay and they usually go for upwards of £40. You make a fair point about the lack of crystal disciplining. It was impossible to get a clear SSB signal on a Satellit 1400 which I had a long time ago, probably for the same reason. I do know that SSB works very well on the Satellit 700 although that is a much later design and does have digital tuning.

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Old 9th Jul 2021, 7:22 pm   #14
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Default Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

Whilst i know of the Sat 2000, I have never worked on one. However, it probably goes back to the days of their hybrid TVs (717, 1500, 3010).
If so, they may well have double side sub panels. They invariably need treatment with a hot iron on all the thro print areas.
Les.

Last edited by MotorBikeLes; 9th Jul 2021 at 7:23 pm. Reason: added "areas"
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Old 9th Jul 2021, 7:31 pm   #15
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Smile Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

For mine, I looked on Ebay for the dial bulbs and I found motorcycle instrument back light bulbs for 6V in the same envelope size and shape. With a bit of ohms law calculation to work out a value, I put a small green wirewound resistor in series with the lamps to drop the 1V and this worked well.

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Old 10th Jul 2021, 1:15 pm   #16
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Default Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

Hallelujah! I think that the fault has been located...

After all the helpful suggestions I decided that the only way was to trace each and every connection through to see if there was a break somewhere. This mammoth task did not fill me with joy but the logical approach seemed to me to be the only way as I could not make the fault go away by any means that I tried and locate it that way.

I had decided that it was an RF-level fault. Because of the healthy level of hiss when the fault was present I was convinced that it was in the early RF stages rather than later on. This at least minimised the search. I also felt that it was either a switch issue or a solder-joint issue (thank you, in particular, MotorBikeLes for that tip...) and I did at least know that it definitely affected LW and MW. The other bands were more presumption.

I first tried checking the contacts on the wavechange switch i7, i8, i9 and so on working my way along the chain to the first RF transistor. Nothing wrong was revealed and - strangely - all my attempts to poke at components and joints and so on resulted in a goodly level of interference suggesting more of an antenna issue than a circuit one. Then I noticed that the variable capacitor was switched across the circuit with q10, q11 & q12. This would certainly give the symptoms of low signal level if the tuning capacitor was not properly in circuit, I thought.

When I put my screwdriver across the rear contacts of q10 & q11 I suddenly had full signal! This suggested a switch contacts issue to me. Just in case, I re-soldered the rear of the board-side contacts and also the ones on the switch side of the board but the fault was still there. Although this subsequently made the fault go away with certain positioning of the K2 switch (the switch in question) I could not guarantee the contact without this fiddling. I decided to brave a squirt with my Servisol 'Super 10' - thankfully obtained years ago 'just in case...' - which thankfully found its way down the switch contacts and out of the bottom of the switch.

The result is that I have not so far managed to make the fault happen again. I HOPE and pray that that is the fault fixed.

Now on to the refurbishment...
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Old 30th Jul 2021, 8:13 am   #17
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Default Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

Back on with this 'retirement' project:

The tuning on the SW 3-10 section is really stiff to the point that the control knob slips. As the path of the string and the various pulleys were filthy I decided to brave taking the string off and cleaning the whole area in the hop that this would improve things. Thankfully I managed to get the whole thing back on and working but it's actually the tuning capacitor that is very stiff to turn. Should I oil what I would call the bearings possibly?
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Old 30th Jul 2021, 8:25 am   #18
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Default Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

Often this is caused by dried up grease in th bearings.
A small amount of light machine oil usually works but might take some time overnight to work it’s way in. In stubborn cases some localised heating can help provided there are no plastic parts present.
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Old 30th Jul 2021, 10:03 am   #19
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Default Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

3-in 1?
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 9:48 am   #20
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Default Re: Grundig Satellit 2000 Issues

I attempted to lubricate the capacitor at the point that I could access and this has not changed the situation unfortunately.

Just coming towards the point where I can say that I am happy with the repairs and putting the whole things back together.

I replaced the rusty battery contacts with some from a certain online auction website which were second-hand but in good condition. I have attached a picture of the ones that I have removed. Can they be cleaned and re-used or have they had it?
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