Do you recognize this (allegedly) Mullard radio? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

GeeTeeCee · 2nd Apr 2016, 1:55 pm

Trying to identify the model of a 5-valve Mullard radiogram chassis that made its way to Australia, possibly from the UK.

At the top left of the dial glass, partially obscured, is the word Hornbrook, which we are given to believe may refer to a re-seller in Yorkshire.

Unfortunately the cabinet is no longer around, and the markings on 4 of the 5 valves have been obliterated. The known valve is EBF89. A Plessey capacitor is dated Oct/60.

Hoping that somebody may recognize the dial in the attachment.

paulsherwin · 2nd Apr 2016, 2:36 pm

A picture from the back might help.

The tuning scale shows it was indeed made for the British market.

Are you sure it's Mullard? Mullard was basically Philips, and it doesn't look very Philipsy to me. It's also a bit downmarket for Philips - most mid market radiograms would have covered VHF/FM by 1960/61.

You normally find EBF89s in 3 valve plus rectifier short superhets - ECH81, EBF89, EL84. A 4 valve setup at that time would have been ECH81, EF89, EBC81, EL84.

Hornbrooks appears to be / have been a department store in Leeds. It was normal for such stores to have radios and other electrical equipment made for them by contractors to be sold under a house brand. Partly this was to avoid the Retail Price Maintenance rules, which allowed manufacturers to specify the retail prices for their branded products.

Sideband · 2nd Apr 2016, 3:30 pm

Philips/Mullard usually have a distinctive style of construction. Can you post pictures of the chassis and underside wiring? That will be more conclusive.

Edward Huggins · 2nd Apr 2016, 5:28 pm

This certainly does not look like a Mullard, other than it uses their valves. The fact that is AM only and dates from as late as 1960, suggests it was a budget chassis made for the home assembler or for a pared-down, low priced, mono radiogram (probably with a BSR Autochanger) sold via Mail Order or in Furniture/Department Stores. The CIVIC brand was a example of this. Edward

GeeTeeCee · 3rd Apr 2016, 2:39 am

Many thanks indeed for the replies. The house brand theory may be on the money.

Owner stated Mullard in his post but he may be mistaken. He may be going by the brand on the one valve that is still readable.

When I looked on Radiomuseum, I did see some UK models that have a similar style of dial, with rear-lit rectangular station markings.

The owner has provided some above chassis photos (below). I can request below chassis shot if that is still deemed useful.

mark pirate · 3rd Apr 2016, 8:20 am

Quote:

The house brand theory may be on the money.

I would agree, there were several chassis such as this sold through the various magazines in the early sixties. I think you will be very lucky to identify the actual manufacturer.

Mark

Sideband · 3rd Apr 2016, 8:30 am

Well it's not Philips/Mullard! There is what looks like a 6AT6 valve presumably driving the output pair (looks like a pair of EL84's). GEC/Sobel and KB were fond of using that valve (also known as EBC90). Really though it's anyone's guess...

thermionic · 3rd Apr 2016, 8:30 am

That output transformer looks suspect. Trying to identify the valve line up, it could have a push pull output.

SimonT.

camtechman · 3rd Apr 2016, 10:04 am

This is the second question about a Mullard radio from "down under"

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...=Mullard+radio

paulsherwin · 3rd Apr 2016, 10:36 am

What an odd chassis. If it really is an AM short superhet combined with a push pull amplifier then it's a first for me. I can only think that it was primarily intended to function as a record player with basic radio functionality added almost as an afterthought.

I agree the smaller transformer (output?) looks like a fairly late replacement.

Does it have a selenium rectifier?

GeeTeeCee · 3rd Apr 2016, 12:10 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by camtechman

This is the second question about a Mullard radio from "down under"

Radiomuseum sums it up pretty well:

Quote:

Mullard - Australia Pty Ltd. / Associated with Mullard London. Known as manufacturer of Radios and Tubes. Mullard radios sold in Australia from 1937 to 1939 were made by Airzone 1931 Ltd and from 1939 (there is some overlap) to 1954 by Philips Australia. The Mullard name was discontinued for radios after 1954.

Owner has supplied this under-chassis photo.

Edward Huggins · 3rd Apr 2016, 12:19 pm

I would not have thought that this was a push-pull design in such a basic unit. I would think the valves side-by-side are an EL84 (or equivalent) and an EZ80 (or equivlnet). Both have the similarly sized envlopes. Edward

GeeTeeCee · 3rd Apr 2016, 1:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

What an odd chassis. If it really is an AM short superhet combined with a push pull amplifier then it's a first for me. I can only think that it was primarily intended to function as a record player with basic radio functionality added almost as an afterthought.

It is a sparse looking effort, I agree. Looks built to a budget. House brand quite likely.

Under-chassis photo (see post above) shows a rectifier valve socket attached to the power transformer.

As to the suggested brand, owner recalls the radiogram having a cardboard card on that he thinks referred to a Mullard model number.

AC/HL · 3rd Apr 2016, 2:05 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

This certainly does not look like a Mullard, other than it uses their valves.

Every post since reinforces this, akin to Monarch being the make of all unidentified record players. The Hornbrook name is probably a red herring too. The address in Google is residential, apart from one odd reference to a department store which I've never heard of. It appears to be a registered office for a HR company, in a private house.
We had a similar query some time ago about small lettering on the edge of a dial glass, and it turned out to be the dial manufacturer, not the radio.

Boater Sam · 3rd Apr 2016, 2:49 pm

The dial glass has a very Pye look to me, but I have been wrong more times than right.

paulsherwin · 3rd Apr 2016, 3:50 pm

It's possible that this is actually an (electronically) reasonably conventional 4 valve superhet but with an odd selection of valve types: ECH81/EBF89/6AT6/EL84. There would be some unused diodes there. Maybe the manufacturer designed around whichever valves could be had cheaply at the time, though this attitude was dying out even amongst small manufacturers by 1960.

I think I can see a couple of Hunts Mouldseal caps in there which should be changed if this chassis is going to be used. One cap seems to have been changed already.

Sideband · 3rd Apr 2016, 5:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeeTeeCee

Under-chassis photo (see post above) shows a rectifier valve socket attached to the power transformer.

Yes I agree now having seen the underside. Definitely a rectifier valve. So it's just a simple single-ended output stage with a reasonably conventional valve line-up...probably an ECH81, EF89, EBC90, EL84 and EZ80 (or whatever the 6xxx equivalents are).

Still doesn't look very Philips or Mullard underneath...nothing like their normal method of construction. The IF transformers are definitely not Mullard/Philips. Also too simple. Looks like it's a circuit that's 'cut to the bone'.

paulsherwin · 3rd Apr 2016, 7:17 pm

It doesn't use any Philips 'black pitch' capacitors, which all Philips sets used until the early 60s.

GeeTeeCee · 3rd Apr 2016, 11:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC/HL

... akin to Monarch being the make of all unidentified record players.

Step up and take first prize.

The owner has subsequently drawn attention to this eBay ad:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Civi...-/171794219406

Civic brand with Monarch turntable. Who made Civic?

AC/HL · 4th Apr 2016, 12:14 am

Civic was a chain store brand, Currys I think, so the radiogram is identified. The selling price is interesting however.

2nd Apr 2016, 1:55 pm	#1
GeeTeeCee Triode Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 13	Do you recognize this (allegedly) Mullard radio? Trying to identify the model of a 5-valve Mullard radiogram chassis that made its way to Australia, possibly from the UK. At the top left of the dial glass, partially obscured, is the word Hornbrook, which we are given to believe may refer to a re-seller in Yorkshire. Unfortunately the cabinet is no longer around, and the markings on 4 of the 5 valves have been obliterated. The known valve is EBF89. A Plessey capacitor is dated Oct/60. Hoping that somebody may recognize the dial in the attachment. Attached Thumbnails

2nd Apr 2016, 2:36 pm	#2
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,970	Re: Do you recognize this Mullard radio? A picture from the back might help. The tuning scale shows it was indeed made for the British market. Are you sure it's Mullard? Mullard was basically Philips, and it doesn't look very Philipsy to me. It's also a bit downmarket for Philips - most mid market radiograms would have covered VHF/FM by 1960/61. You normally find EBF89s in 3 valve plus rectifier short superhets - ECH81, EBF89, EL84. A 4 valve setup at that time would have been ECH81, EF89, EBC81, EL84. Hornbrooks appears to be / have been a department store in Leeds. It was normal for such stores to have radios and other electrical equipment made for them by contractors to be sold under a house brand. Partly this was to avoid the Retail Price Maintenance rules, which allowed manufacturers to specify the retail prices for their branded products.

2nd Apr 2016, 3:30 pm	#3
Sideband Dekatron Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Croydon, Surrey, UK. Posts: 7,580	Re: Do you recognize this Mullard radio? Philips/Mullard usually have a distinctive style of construction. Can you post pictures of the chassis and underside wiring? That will be more conclusive. __________________ There are lots of brilliant keyboard players and then there is Rick Wakeman.....

2nd Apr 2016, 5:28 pm	#4
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,340	Re: Do you recognize this Mullard radio? This certainly does not look like a Mullard, other than it uses their valves. The fact that is AM only and dates from as late as 1960, suggests it was a budget chassis made for the home assembler or for a pared-down, low priced, mono radiogram (probably with a BSR Autochanger) sold via Mail Order or in Furniture/Department Stores. The CIVIC brand was a example of this. Edward

3rd Apr 2016, 2:39 am	#5
GeeTeeCee Triode Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 13	Re: Do you recognize this Mullard radio? Many thanks indeed for the replies. The house brand theory may be on the money. Owner stated Mullard in his post but he may be mistaken. He may be going by the brand on the one valve that is still readable. When I looked on Radiomuseum, I did see some UK models that have a similar style of dial, with rear-lit rectangular station markings. The owner has provided some above chassis photos (below). I can request below chassis shot if that is still deemed useful. Attached Thumbnails

3rd Apr 2016, 8:30 am	#7
Sideband Dekatron Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Croydon, Surrey, UK. Posts: 7,580	Re: Do you recognize this Mullard radio? Well it's not Philips/Mullard! There is what looks like a 6AT6 valve presumably driving the output pair (looks like a pair of EL84's). GEC/Sobel and KB were fond of using that valve (also known as EBC90). Really though it's anyone's guess... __________________ There are lots of brilliant keyboard players and then there is Rick Wakeman.....

3rd Apr 2016, 8:30 am	#8
thermionic Heptode Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 989	Re: Do you recognize this Mullard radio? That output transformer looks suspect. Trying to identify the valve line up, it could have a push pull output. SimonT. __________________ The honesty of imperfection..........

3rd Apr 2016, 10:04 am	#9
camtechman Nonode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Milton Keynes, Bucks. UK. Posts: 2,552	Re: Do you recognize this Mullard radio? This is the second question about a Mullard radio from "down under" https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...=Mullard+radio __________________ When I die, please don't let my Wife sell my collection for the amount I told her I paid for it!

3rd Apr 2016, 10:36 am	#10
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,970	Re: Do you recognize this Mullard radio? What an odd chassis. If it really is an AM short superhet combined with a push pull amplifier then it's a first for me. I can only think that it was primarily intended to function as a record player with basic radio functionality added almost as an afterthought. I agree the smaller transformer (output?) looks like a fairly late replacement. Does it have a selenium rectifier?

3rd Apr 2016, 12:19 pm	#12
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,340	Re: Do you recognize this Mullard radio? I would not have thought that this was a push-pull design in such a basic unit. I would think the valves side-by-side are an EL84 (or equivalent) and an EZ80 (or equivlnet). Both have the similarly sized envlopes. Edward

3rd Apr 2016, 2:49 pm	#15
Boater Sam Banned Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Middlewich, Cheshire, UK. & Winter in the Philippines. Posts: 3,897	Re: Do you recognize this Mullard radio? The dial glass has a very Pye look to me, but I have been wrong more times than right.

3rd Apr 2016, 3:50 pm	#16
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,970	Re: Do you recognize this Mullard radio? It's possible that this is actually an (electronically) reasonably conventional 4 valve superhet but with an odd selection of valve types: ECH81/EBF89/6AT6/EL84. There would be some unused diodes there. Maybe the manufacturer designed around whichever valves could be had cheaply at the time, though this attitude was dying out even amongst small manufacturers by 1960. I think I can see a couple of Hunts Mouldseal caps in there which should be changed if this chassis is going to be used. One cap seems to have been changed already.

3rd Apr 2016, 7:17 pm	#18
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,970	Re: Do you recognize this Mullard radio? It doesn't use any Philips 'black pitch' capacitors, which all Philips sets used until the early 60s.

4th Apr 2016, 12:14 am	#20
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,643	Re: Do you recognize this Mullard radio? Civic was a chain store brand, Currys I think, so the radiogram is identified. The selling price is interesting however.