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Vintage Radio (domestic) Domestic vintage radio (wireless) receivers only. |
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17th Apr 2021, 1:20 pm | #1 |
Heptode
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Radio transistor count
Seem's that back in the day when radio was king that the general public thought the more transistors a radio had the better it performed. I've ever heard stories of some manufactures installing extra transistors by twisting the leads together and soldering them into an unused hole on the PCB Just to get the transistor count up
And apparently some went as far as gluing extra ones to the inside of the case Anyone heard similar stories ? Cheers Jay
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17th Apr 2021, 1:23 pm | #2 |
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Re: Radio transistor count
Not heard any of those stories, but in some cases a transistor junction was used as a detector diode.
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17th Apr 2021, 1:37 pm | #3 |
Heptode
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Re: Radio transistor count
Yeah I've also heard of that being done.
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17th Apr 2021, 2:01 pm | #4 |
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Re: Radio transistor count
But they (the diode connected transistors) were probably not very good as transistors, at least you could use the good junction. The classic count was six, mixer/osc., two IF, AF driver and two for the push pull output. The "All Transistor Six" I guess.
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17th Apr 2021, 2:47 pm | #5 |
Dekatron
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Re: Radio transistor count
The only instance I can think of where a UK manufacturer inflated the count with diode-connected transistors is the LW/MW/SW Fidelity Fairline, "12 transistors" but a couple of them are used two-legged. Much more of that sort of thing among Far Eastern sets sold in the USA, I've seen fifteen-transistor MW-only pocket sets which employed a few shenanigans to make that claim.
I would be surprised if there are diode-connected devices in the Panasonic RF-9000 (41 ICs, 21 FETs and 174 more transistors), but I've not examined it closely enough to be sure. Paul |
17th Apr 2021, 3:25 pm | #6 |
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Re: Radio transistor count
There were a few KB radios, like the KB Rhapsody Super 8 was one. https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/kolsterbr_vp21.html
and the Cadet UP11 https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/kolsterbr_up11.html Mike Last edited by crackle; 17th Apr 2021 at 3:39 pm. |
17th Apr 2021, 3:47 pm | #7 |
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Re: Radio transistor count
I suppose it was a hang-over from the valve days, back when each bottle was several week's worth of wages, each valve was really quite something. Later on the valve count marked out those sets which weren't just yet another short superhet and could be expected to be more sensitive and more selective.In the transistor age, the marketeers at the manufacturers would have reckoned that there was still lingering punter-cred in the number of active devices.
It faded as other characteristics took over the determination of position in the bragging rights stakes. Nowadays, who knows how many active devices there are in current radios? The thing by my right elbow sports two entire 32-bit DSP engines, never mind the control CPU, lan interface etc. Even the Japanese firms have stopped counting. David
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17th Apr 2021, 9:24 pm | #8 | |
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Re: Radio transistor count
Quote:
I think these probably are just unfounded stories. Transistors became relatively cheap to manufacture once they were embedded in consumer electronics. (Not disputing the sometime role as diode-connected detector, though) On the other hand, you get a few more in high quality output stages. For example the Hacker audio amp stages (beautifully built on a discrete circuit board) but that wasn't done for marketing reasons -- the resulting sound quality was/is self-evident.
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17th Apr 2021, 11:31 pm | #9 |
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Re: Radio transistor count
In the 1990's it was considered good practice for designers of integrated circuits to include some circuitry or devices that did nothing, to make the detection of copyng easier. It was OK to design your own circuitry to emulate the "black box" performance of a competitor's chip, but not OK to copy the circuit toplogy. A competitor's chip that included identical circuitry that did nothing could provide strong evidence of direct copying.
Last edited by emeritus; 17th Apr 2021 at 11:35 pm. Reason: typos |
18th Apr 2021, 4:19 am | #10 | |
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Re: Radio transistor count
Quote:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/unknow...kp16_kp_1.html I've long held at bay a slight temptation to acquire one of these and see just what the designer was up to. Paul |
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18th Apr 2021, 6:53 am | #11 |
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Re: Radio transistor count
In the photo on the Radiomuseum site, Paul, there appear to be four transistors in a square formation between the audio driver transformer and the audio output transformer instead of the usual two. I wonder if he was making up for poor device gain by using a Darlington pair in each position where we'd usually find one? That would up the transistor count without increasing the number of passives needed to support them. There looks to be more transistors than passives!
David
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18th Apr 2021, 8:53 am | #12 | |
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Re: Radio transistor count
Quote:
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18th Apr 2021, 9:34 am | #13 |
Heptode
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Re: Radio transistor count
The inactive extra devices in sets such as the one in Paul’s link don’t need to be good devices.
So the 1970’s semiconductor manufacturer had a market for good devices and a market for duds. Wonder who he sold the marginally out of spec devices to....... Stuart |
18th Apr 2021, 1:37 pm | #14 | |
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Re: Radio transistor count
Quote:
Coil/IFT cans: 4 in each radio. Transformers, driver and output in each radio. Resistors: 14 in the 6 transistor Riviera, 13 in the 16 transistor Fiesta. Can electrolytic capacitors: 4 in each radio. Disc capacitors, 7 in the Riviera, 6 in the Fiesta. Diodes: 1 in the Riviera, none in the Fiesta. Not absolutely sure I've spotted every component, but the signs are consistent with the possibility that we're looking at a six transistor radio with a further one diode-connected and nine more as complete passengers. This one is interesting too, a MW-only pocket set boasting 14 transistors, four of which are in a gaggle by the output transformer: https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/unknow...?language_id=2 Paul Last edited by Paul_RK; 18th Apr 2021 at 1:52 pm. |
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18th Apr 2021, 1:59 pm | #15 |
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Re: Radio transistor count
I had wondered if the audio output was paralleled pairs in push-pull to increase power dissipation of using low power transistors to stick with the same type throughout the radio. The current sharing problem would be horrendous, but then so was the issue with just a pair of germanium transistors betwixt transformers. Just because something's horrible doesn't guarantee that no-one's done it.
I'm curious, but it's not a set that floats my boat. If there's fakery for the point of a bigger headline number for marketing. it just feels crooked. David
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18th Apr 2021, 2:11 pm | #16 |
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Re: Radio transistor count
To me that Suntone receiver "reads" model 14 and it's got transistors in it.
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18th Apr 2021, 2:19 pm | #17 |
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Re: Radio transistor count
It was quite common for HK built radios to have inflated transistor counts. 14 or 16 was unusual, but 8 was almost standard. Only 6 would be working as transistors, the others acting as diodes or not doing anything at all.
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18th Apr 2021, 3:53 pm | #18 | |
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Re: Radio transistor count
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Paul |
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18th Apr 2021, 5:58 pm | #19 |
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Re: Radio transistor count
When at school I worked out a ZN414 and an IC10 would make a 23 transistor radio.
ZN414 classic matchbox radio IC in a transistor can 10 transistors. IC10 Sinclairs rebranding of a common amplifier chip 13 transistors. |
18th Apr 2021, 7:36 pm | #20 | |
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Re: Radio transistor count
Quote:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/hacker..._rp72rp_7.html Hacker Sovereign, by contrast (to develop my earlier point, post #8) has 17 transistors
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