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Old 20th Jun 2018, 6:41 pm   #81
Lucifer
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Default Re: Wiring a desk electric fan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refugee View Post
In the original photo the wires looked like they came out of the coil side by side from under a band of lacing cord.
I believe that is correct, Refugee.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 7:57 pm   #82
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Default Re: Wiring a desk electric fan.

So the avometer might be a 'project' as well! I would whip whose batteries out soonish due to their age, if they decide to leak they'll corrode the contacts.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 8:27 pm   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer View Post
The contents that are causing me a modicum of confusion are:
1/ that you appear to be of the opinion that this is a modern fan
2/ That it probably doesn't fall into the category of being earthed when the structure is of cast iron and aluminium
Point 1: Having read what I have written, I read nothing that to me seems to convey that idea.

Point 2: I did write, post 74:
. . . . if there is any metal that anyone might touch, make sure that that metal is connected to the aforesaid green/yellow wire from the mains plug.

Al.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 8:34 pm   #84
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Default Re: Wiring a desk electric fan.

I don't recognize the logo in the photo's.

Lawrence.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 9:03 pm   #85
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Default Re: Wiring a desk electric fan.

At first glance it looks like a GE logo but of course isn't. It's actually 'SE' and the fan is a modern 'replica' made in Thailand !

See this discussion: http://www.afcaforum.com/view_topic....ngkok+Thailand

Cheers
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 9:26 pm   #86
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Default Re: Wiring a desk electric fan.

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Point 1: Having read what I have written, I read nothing that to me seems to convey that idea.
''(Vintage electrical equipment had red for 'live' and black for 'neutral'. That does not apply here.)'' There may be a school of thought which would subscribe to this being an intimation that the fan is modern, as opposed to vintage.

Anyway, enough of the semantics,I note that you haven't addressed my 3rd and perhaps most poignant cause of confusion which is incidentally, your diagram only appears to have four wires emanating from the motor winding, whereas my fan has five.

If I wire my fan up to the specifications of your diagram, where does the spare wire which is most probably live go. That's the $64,000 question.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 9:40 pm   #87
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Default Re: Wiring a desk electric fan.

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Originally Posted by Trigon. View Post
At first glance it looks like a GE logo but of course isn't. It's actually 'SE' and the fan is a modern 'replica' made in Thailand !

See this discussion: http://www.afcaforum.com/view_topic....ngkok+Thailand
Cheers, I had my suspicions, stator looked a bit clean plus no vintage wire guard pattern that was the same on Google pics.

Lawrence.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 10:10 pm   #88
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Default Re: Wiring a desk electric fan.

Opinion: If this is modern it doesn't seem nearly so appealing. A bit disappointing!
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 10:17 pm   #89
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Default Re: Wiring a desk electric fan.

The fans depicted in the images are manufactured by the Siam Electrical Co. who began manufacturing replica fans in 1990.The one I have isn't one of the aforementioned, there are many subtle differences, the most poignant being the weight. The modern versions weigh 4 kgs., as opposed to the one I have which weighs over 8 kgs. The blade alone on mine weighs .5 kg.

The are many subtle differences such as the quality of the parts etc. the wiring is much thicker 2 mm, as opposed to 0,5 mm. Apart from the replacement switch, there isn't a part on my fan which was manufactured post 1990. The gearing in the oscillator mechanism on my fan is pre WW2, as opposed to the gearing in the Thai productions which are almost certainly plastic.

The natural patina on the blades and guard of my example is at least 60 yrs. old. apart from the fact that the gauge of brass would be flimsy by comparison, hence the far lighter weight of a similar sized commodity composed of cast iron, brass and aluminium.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 10:23 pm   #90
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Quote:
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I note that you haven't addressed my 3rd and perhaps most poignant cause of confusion which is incidentally, your diagram only appears to have four wires emanating from the motor winding, whereas my fan has five.
I don't understand that. My diagram was based on the resistance measurements you reported in your post 74. That post indicates only four wires from the motor, since the fifth one - the brown one - gives an open-circuit (you state "no resistance") to all of the other four wires.
So just a further thought: I wonder if that brown wire is connected to any part of the metalwork of the fan, including the metalwork of the motor itself? A resistance check with your AVO on the Ohms x1 range will be indicative . . . .

Al.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 11:10 pm   #91
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A resistance check with your AVO on the Ohms x1 range will be indicative . . .
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to attain any response from my Avometer, the two Eveready 4.5 volt batteries are way over 20 yrs old and although no leakages, I have now removed them upon the advice of Philpot. The battery box and terminals are scrupulously clean and the dial indicator moves freely when the meter is lightly shaken, maybe it jus' requires new batteries.

I used a modern digital meter set at 2000 ohms to attain the readings I posted.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 11:12 pm   #92
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Default Re: Wiring a desk electric fan.

Thai desk fans, complete with specifications.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/292318731616
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 11:50 pm   #93
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Default Re: Wiring a desk electric fan.

I can't help feeling that you didn't read any of my previous post where I explained all this.

You keep on going back to these 4.5 volt batteries in your AVO. You don't need them. Just remove them and forget about them. You just need to fit a single 1.5 volt cell as I've already explained.

Then use the lamp limiter method to check you've got the connections correct on your fan (careful not to touch any live connections) - it really is that easy...honest!
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Old 21st Jun 2018, 12:03 am   #94
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Arrow Re: Wiring a desk electric fan.

Lucifer:
No disrespect to you, but I do believe that we have now reached the point where your best approach with this fan is to get it into the hands of someone who has the necessary knowledge, experience and test equipment to get it fully functional. And it would probably be for the best if that 'someone' was a member of this forum. If you were closer to me than you are, I would happily volunteer to be that member - but I'm not. OTOH, there are members who are a lot closer to you than I am. Perhaps one of them may be willing to take on the task.

With sincere regards,

Al.
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Old 21st Jun 2018, 12:10 am   #95
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Default Re: Wiring a desk electric fan.

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Lucifer: your best approach with this fan is to get it into the hands of someone who has the necessary knowledge, experience and test equipment to get it fully functional.
I think you may well be right, Al.
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Old 21st Jun 2018, 12:55 am   #96
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Default Re: Wiring a desk electric fan.

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Lucifer:
No disrespect to you, but I do believe that we have now reached the point where your best approach with this fan is to get it into the hands of someone who has the necessary knowledge, experience and test equipment to get it fully functional.
I'd actually come to this conclusion some time ago, it has to be a hands on job as opposed to internet advice. Even if I figured out the wiring, I wouldn't have the confidence to switch the fan on and risk damaging the motor.

I'd have to first have it tested by someone who knew what they were looking at, lamp tests et al may well be simple to a person with a modicum of electrical knowledge, but to me, it would be akin to understanding Einstein's theory of relativity.

Thank yu'all for your patience and advice, particularly those who sought to convince me that my fan is a Made in Thailand repro. The only far eastern commodity I possess is a Philips, Made in Hong Kong, Evoluon radio circa 1966, the last time England had a football team. Oh yeah and of course, my digital multi meter.

Last edited by Lucifer; 21st Jun 2018 at 1:01 am.
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Old 21st Jun 2018, 1:13 am   #97
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Default Re: Wiring a desk electric fan.

As regards your AVO, which I think looks like an old model 7, I've just opened up a couple of mine and taken pictures for you, to try to show you the acceptable 'bodgery' that can be done to get the resistance ranges working. As you can see, you don't even need to use a 'D' cell, as one is fitted with a 'C' cell, and the other is fitted with an 'AA' type. You will notice that in one of the AVOs there's a 9 volt PP3 with wires soldered to two of the connections that the 4.5 volt batteries would have originally been connected to. As previously said, you don't need to worry about the 9 volt battery part, as this only powers one range, which you're unlikely to need. Also, if your AVO is in nice condition, then I wouldn't really recommend soldering wires directly to those battery connector 'tangs', but with the 1.5 volt AA, C or D cell (used in place of the original 'square' cell), you just have to solder wires to the cell ONLY, and then connect them to the two screw terminals, observing correct polarity, simple as that.

Hope these pictures and explanation help you to understand what to do:-
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Old 21st Jun 2018, 1:53 am   #98
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Default Re: Wiring a desk electric fan.

If it is a dual voltage replica like the one linked to in post#92 it would explain the fifth wire.
Also it could have been connected to 220/240V with the jumper set to 110V making the fifth wire open circuit.
If you are lucky you might be able to get at the thermal fuse to fit a replacement.
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Old 21st Jun 2018, 11:55 am   #99
The Philpott
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Default Re: Wiring a desk electric fan.

Techman has kindly shown the connection points for the AVO there, packing pieces removed for clarity. My Pics 3 and 4 below show how the PP3 can be wedged with slabs of packaging foam to stop it moving and shorting out. (NOT polystyrene though!)

Pics 1 and 2 are off the shelf adaptors/connectors required for fitting modern batteries. (The D cell in my pics 3 and 4 is installed using a special AVO adapter, which you probably won't be able to get)

One of those black C cell boxes will slide into the box quite nicely...a D cell box will not fit. We don't use Duracells for these meters as they have a tendency to leak in this application (is that fair to say?)

All this could be academic if the meter is dead, but we'll see.

Oh and good luck with the fan, whether you end up outsourcing it or not.

Dave
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