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Old 1st Nov 2018, 12:34 pm   #21
Maarten
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

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Originally Posted by Refugee View Post
Flat screen TVs are very time consuming to take to bits. They simply have so many screws that the time it takes to get them open is well beyond economical at best.
Samsung has some models that (they claim) can be opened with a spudger and come out undamaged. I'm sceptical. I'd rather remove 12 screws, which can be done in little time. I agree that the old Philips plasma sets with 50 to 60 screws are a bit extreme.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 1:01 pm   #22
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

What struck me about the article was the sense of reinventing the wheel. The ‘latest thing’ being appliances that can be repaired or sorted for scrap. Everything used to be dismantle-able/repairable. The flood of low-cost, snap/glue-together disposable stuff is fairly recent, and the ensuing mountain of useless junk inevitable.

Another problem I see regularly in my hobby of solid-state electronics repair is failure of lead-free (RoHS) solder joints. A whole device thrown away for want of a touch from a soldering iron. RoHS has helped reduce toxins in WEE, of course, (we’ll ignore the vast amounts of lead in old pipes, flashing and even entire roof coverings), but it’s a Pyrrhic victory in terms of accelerated failure of electrical devices and accumulation of waste.

Am I right in thinking that manufacturers of cars have to provide spare parts for a certain period after manufacture? Why not make it part of CE certification for electronics - that devices be repairable? By which I mean -

1. Schematics and service info
2. Strip-down/rebuild achievable non-destructively
3. Special parts (ie not resistors/caps etc) made available at a reasonable cost relative to purchase price.

Referring back to reinventing the wheel, didn’t the above list apply to anything made before the late 20th century? There’s nothing new about the ideas in the article, just a back-tracking from the wasteful road we’ve gone down in the last few decades.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 1:10 pm   #23
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

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Electric toothbrushes are another one.
Once the heads wear out they soon become obsolete and you have to throw the thing away.
I’ve not had that problem with Braun products, but did you know you can change the battery when it gets tired? Slot the toothbrush into its charging holder, and twist one way or the other, and it’ll pop apart. You can then solder in a new battery, either NiCad or NiMh (can’t remember which, but they were available on the shelf at Maplin (sob)).
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 2:21 pm   #24
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

I spent the 80 s in the white goods business and all the appliances were made to be repaired and parts were mostly available and sensibly priced. The major manufacturers provided good service manuals. We regarded a normal life on a mass market machine as 15 years plus. The current washing machines now have drum/ outer tub assembly as one part that cannot be opened for repair. If drum bearings pack up as they do after a very short time the machine is effectively scrap. My old shop is still just about hanging on but the regular repair business has mostly disappeared and machines under 5 years old are scrapped. What a criminal waste!
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 2:32 pm   #25
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

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What I would like to know, for example, what is the complete recycling of say a Dyson, is the motor and it’s components refurbished,and reused, and then what about a vintage Radio! so many questions.
As someone who had spent a short time as an apprentice in the Dyson repair sector, I can tell you the truth as to what happens to everything, including what faults may be encountered on said machines.
I won't reveal what happens as you'll most likely start crying, think motors vs metal skip!

Regards, Rick.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 2:58 pm   #26
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guineafowl
Why not make it part of CE certification for electronics - that devices be repairable?
Perhaps all that is needed is a requirement that at point of sale an estimate of the product lifetime (e.g. time to first fault) and a promise of the availability of parts be provided. Or perhaps require manufacturers to take back all their products and be responsible for recycling. If government won't do it then perhaps an enlightened retailer (John Lewis?) could set an example.

1950s table radio
time to first fault: 5 years
time to BER: 60 years

modern gizmo
time to first fault: 2 years
time to BER: 2 years

Has technology actually advanced?
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 2:59 pm   #27
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

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Originally Posted by Glowing Bits! View Post
As someone who had spent a short time as an apprentice in the Dyson repair sector, I can tell you the truth as to what happens to everything, including what faults may be encountered on said machines.
I won't reveal what happens as you'll most likely start crying, think motors vs metal skip!
A lot of friends and family member have Dysons, and so I’ve repaired a few over the years. The parts seem readily available.

I don’t have them myself, because I can’t get past that contrast of thin-squeaky-plastic-knockoff-Tonka-toy build quality and premium price level.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 3:43 pm   #28
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

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I don’t have them myself, because I can’t get past that contrast of thin-squeaky-plastic-knockoff-Tonka-toy build quality and premium price level.
I know exactly what you mean, any new machine, regardless of brand, tends to break too easily, I'm rather heavy handed with machines at the best of times.
With regards to Dyson, I would have gone for one of those rechargeable handheld types by now if they were under a hundred quid, but they're not, sadly.
Rick.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 3:56 pm   #29
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

We all seem to know the reason WHY products have such a short life these days but the situation will always get worse - more so when the 'rise of the robots' gets into full swing.

I know the likes of Which do reports on equipment but maybe we need to start a fixed thread to list equipment that members can recommend as being reliable enough to consider purchasing and keeping and, maybe, form a collective to swap parts to KEEP them going in the same way as we do for Radios etc.

If the manufacturers won't commit to providing a full-life-cycle facility then maybe we should?
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 4:20 pm   #30
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It is a bit odd, years (thirty plus) ago we (an old company I was part of) sold video frame grabbers, they weren't selling well, upped the price by a factor of ten and then they sold very well. People thought "you can't do a frame grabber for that price".

These days I buy by weight, the heavier they are made the better, no one wants to ship unwanted weight without reason.
 
Old 1st Nov 2018, 4:25 pm   #31
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

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Originally Posted by Guineafowl View Post
I’ve not had that problem with Braun products, but did you know you can change the battery when it gets tired? Slot the toothbrush into its charging holder, and twist one way or the other, and it’ll pop apart. You can then solder in a new battery, either NiCad or NiMh (can’t remember which, but they were available on the shelf at Maplin (sob)).
An ordinary rechargeable AA cell with wire pigtails soldered to it works just as well, and costs considerably less.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 4:29 pm   #32
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

I wonder if there's any room on fantasy island for the real world.

The last umpteen kettles we've had ended up in the crunchotron, not worth messing about with, new stuff in relative terms is cheap, it's cheap because that's what we demand.....in truth all of us I suspect.

Lawrence.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 4:44 pm   #33
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

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... it's cheap because that's what we demand.....in truth all of us I suspect.
Definitely not all of us, we didn't have to pay £150 for a new toaster... I just hate buying disposable garbage (to choose a relatively polite term) at any price.

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Originally Posted by merlinmaxwell View Post
These days I buy by weight, the heavier they are made the better, no one want's to ship unwanted weight without reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glowing Bits! View Post
...any new machine, regardless of brand, tends to break too easily, I'm rather heavy handed with machines at the best of times....
I've not met a recent Kirby in person, but they look as though they're still pretty heavy, and if they're anything like the old ones they don't break very easily...

Paul
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 5:03 pm   #34
Guineafowl
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

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The last umpteen kettles we've had ended up in the crunchotron, not worth messing about with, new stuff in relative terms is cheap, it's cheap because that's what we demand.....in truth all of us I suspect.
You’re right - that’s certainly the real world at the moment, but the discussion is about change. Do ‘we’ really demand a kettle for which there are no spares and that can’t be disassembled without breaking it? I doubt it. It’s more to do with not thinking ahead when buying.

We don’t even have much of a choice anyway - even higher-end kettles aren’t really repairable, are they?
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 5:17 pm   #35
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

If spares were available who's going to fork out for them plus the service charge in repairing for what is essentially a low value item, there's also transport and parking costs for most of us.

Lawrence.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 5:25 pm   #36
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

I had a look at the Crosslee site, but they don't do kettles, though. However they do sell spares for their own appliances online.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 5:38 pm   #37
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

I'm surprised that this story from a couple of weeks ago hasn't been mentioned in this forum previously. https://www.rt.com/uk/440679-michael...bish-strategy/ Most reports of this were hidden behind a paywall, but it would be interesting to see what he really said.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 5:48 pm   #38
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

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Originally Posted by G8HQP Dave View Post
1950s table radio
time to first fault: 5 years
time to BER: 60 years

modern gizmo
time to first fault: 2 years
time to BER: 2 years

Has technology actually advanced?
I'd argue for the 1950's table radio, time to BER probably was nearer 30 years, at which point it would be cheaper to buy a new one.

Of course, there's folk like us who repair the 1950's table radios UNeconomically (because we can, and we enjoy it), whereas the modern gizmo probably won't be repairable at all in 30 years! Though, time to first fault is often quite good.

Last edited by kalee20; 1st Nov 2018 at 5:49 pm. Reason: Typo
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 5:53 pm   #39
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

The repairs I do only make economic sense because I don't charge for my own labour.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 5:53 pm   #40
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Default Re: Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

If you are chucking an electric kettle away it is worth treading on it to reveal and extract the neon bulb as they are useful and come with the resistor already fitted from old kettles.
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