Rust removal from steel component on the cheap. - Page 2 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

electronicskip · 1st Apr 2019, 10:04 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by M0FYA Andy

By 'tin foil' I guess you mean aluminium foil?

Yes it was a roll of aluminium foil, he demonstrated it on a metal base of something he was restoring .

M0FYA Andy · 1st Apr 2019, 11:33 am

Do you think there was some chemical or electrolytic action, or did the foil just behave as an effective mechanical 'scrubbing brush'?

Andy

ColinTheAmpMan1 · 2nd Apr 2019, 5:56 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by electronicskip

Was watching American restoration the other night and the guy demonstrated a way to get rid of heavy surface rust by rubbing tin foil over the metal.
I have to say it actually worked the outcome was 1st class and looked like new.

This sounds weird to me. Was there any significance in the fact that this post was made on April 1st? Just asking....

Colin.

kernowcam · 3rd Apr 2019, 7:52 am

I have used aluminiumfoil scrunched up to remove rust. its pretty nonabrasive. I believe it was for a chrome plated trim panel for a accordian with rust pitting.

HamishBoxer · 3rd Apr 2019, 10:54 am

When I get around to trying it,I have some Hammerite Rust Removal Gel here.

Bazz4CQJ · 3rd Apr 2019, 9:01 pm

Perhaps we should look at this from another angle. Rubbing down a rusty surface with aluminium foil will give you nice mixture of particles of rust and particles of aluminium and I suspect that some of you will now think of the term "Thermite". For those who don't know, Thermite is an extremely powerful pyrophoric mixture, consisting of powdered iron oxide and powdered aluminium which used with skill, can be used to either cut or weld large sections of steel, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXQnIgrXJd8.

Anyone trying this "rust removal technique" had best make sure there are no sources of ignition anywhere near! As iron oxide is so hard that it is used as an abrasive, and aluminium foil is more "soft as putty" ranking, this does not sound like a good rust removal strategy to me. Why not just use steel wool or stainless steel wool?

There's no 'magic electrolytic action' because there's no electrolyte!

B

m0cemdave · 3rd Apr 2019, 11:40 pm

I'm sure Thermite is very hard to ignite. When we made it at school (yes, such things were allowed in those days) we had to use a piece of burning Magnesium strip to start it off.

Bazz4CQJ · 4th Apr 2019, 12:03 am

Maybe so. I don't recall getting to 'play' with Thermite at school

. However, we did some interesting stuff with sodium chlorate weedkiller
in the days before it had inhibitor added to it, and a death or two was only narrowly avoided

B

ColinTheAmpMan1 · 4th Apr 2019, 11:54 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazz4CQJ

Perhaps we should look at this from another angle. Rubbing down a rusty surface with aluminium foil will give you nice mixture of particles of rust and particles of aluminium and I suspect that some of you will now think of the term "Thermite". For those who don't know, Thermite is an extremely powerful pyrophoric mixture, consisting of powdered iron oxide and powdered aluminium which used with skill, can be used to either cut or weld large sections of steel, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXQnIgrXJd8.

Anyone trying this "rust removal technique" had best make sure there are no sources of ignition anywhere near! As iron oxide is so hard that it is used as an abrasive, and aluminium foil is more "soft as putty" ranking, this does not sound like a good rust removal strategy to me. Why not just use steel wool or stainless steel wool?

There's no 'magic electrolytic action' because there's no electrolyte!

B

I agree with a lot of this, but I feel I should repeat my statement that rust isn't just iron oxide, it is ferroso-ferric oxide and probably contains some other iron compounds such as hydroxides and carbonates. I think it might make a pretty poor Thermite mixture. The Royal Society of Chemistry web-site says that iron(III) oxide (ferric oxide) should be used. I should add that while I have made Thermite and ignited it in the same manner as m0cemdave stated, I have no direct experience of making Thermite by rubbing rusty metal with aluminium foil. I might be talking nonsense.

Colin.

BulgingCap · 13th May 2019, 1:47 pm

I agree with Kalee: Oxalic acid, sold here as a concrete and patio cleaner in a granular form, is very cheap and superb. It needs no heating and the steel item can be left in the solution indefinitely without ill effect.
I keep the solution in old 2L plastic milk bottles, and pour it into whatever plastic container best suits the shape of the item to be cleaned. It can be reused many times until it loses its potency.
The rust disappears completely leaving a matt grey surface.
It hurts like heck in a cut !!
BC

BulgingCap · 13th May 2019, 1:56 pm

The local old boys recommend molasses for rust removal. It is readily available because sugar cane is grown in Oz. It seems to be a bit fierce and will eat away the steel if left too long. I have just searched out a story of a chap who dug a big hole, lined it with black plastic, and put a 1913 Cadillac car chassis and springs etc into a molasses solution. The narrator recalls that his elderly friend forgot about it for a while, and when he checked again the chassis had gone !
BC

nicam49 · 20th May 2019, 10:43 am

All the above makes absorbing reading, is there any way of making any of the above (apart from the molasses) thixotropic so it can be applied to a vertical surface without dripping off?

GMB · 20th May 2019, 2:34 pm

A clue to how the original mixture works is that hydrogen peroxide has to be stabilised and tends to contain things like phosphoric acid.

(Something that people who used it to whiten teeth discovered the hard way!)

LXSTEIN45 · 20th May 2019, 10:59 pm

Electrolysis works very well

LXSTEIN45 · 20th May 2019, 11:00 pm

more pics...

LXSTEIN45 · 20th May 2019, 11:02 pm

Just need to fill the pitting, and have finally confirmed the original colour as a sickly green, so after getting a photo sample from Pleasley museum I will finish this project!

GMB · 20th May 2019, 11:16 pm

The electrolysis method can work well, but be aware that the result is said to re-rust very quickly unless painted without delay.

trh01uk · 21st May 2019, 7:10 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LXSTEIN45

Electrolysis works very well

Yes, it looks very effective. Can I have a description of what exactly you are doing? Electrolyte? What is the other electrode made of?

Richard

GMB · 21st May 2019, 9:44 am

The recommended electrolyte is washing soda (sodium carbonate). Do not be tempted to use common salt as this will promote re-rusting very well indeed.

When I tried this technique I used iron as the other electrode on the grounds that I didn't want any other metal going into solution, but it gets messy as it oxidises and reduces the current. I suspect carbon would be best, or gold/platinum of course! Don't use copper or you will eventually end up copper plating the object.

joebog1 · 21st May 2019, 11:56 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BulgingCap

The local old boys recommend molasses for rust removal. It is readily available because sugar cane is grown in Oz. It seems to be a bit fierce and will eat away the steel if left too long. I have just searched out a story of a chap who dug a big hole, lined it with black plastic, and put a 1913 Cadillac car chassis and springs etc into a molasses solution. The narrator recalls that his elderly friend forgot about it for a while, and when he checked again the chassis had gone !
BC

I didn't stick my nose in until now!

REAL rust, like car parts or tractor components? Use Molasses.

DOES not eat steel, JUST the oxide bits. I haven't tried it on screws from a 3 gang tuning condenser/capacitor, but it sure works on motorcycle parts, car parts, (even rusting sills) nuts n bolts.

I think what I am saying is its probably MORE suitable to " big bits" rather than smearing it over an 18 valve communication receiver chassis.

Thanks aussie.

Joe

1st Apr 2019, 11:33 am	#22
M0FYA Andy Nonode Join Date: May 2007 Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 2,054	Re: Rust removal from steel component on the cheap. Do you think there was some chemical or electrolytic action, or did the foil just behave as an effective mechanical 'scrubbing brush'? Andy

3rd Apr 2019, 7:52 am	#24
kernowcam Pentode Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Camelford, Cornwall, UK. Posts: 188	Re: Rust removal from steel component on the cheap. I have used aluminiumfoil scrunched up to remove rust. its pretty nonabrasive. I believe it was for a chrome plated trim panel for a accordian with rust pitting.

3rd Apr 2019, 10:54 am	#25
HamishBoxer Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK. Posts: 7,404	Re: Rust removal from steel component on the cheap. When I get around to trying it,I have some Hammerite Rust Removal Gel here. __________________ G8JET BVWS Member and V.M.A.R.S

3rd Apr 2019, 9:01 pm	#26
Bazz4CQJ Nonode Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 2,820	Re: Rust removal from steel component on the cheap. Perhaps we should look at this from another angle. Rubbing down a rusty surface with aluminium foil will give you nice mixture of particles of rust and particles of aluminium and I suspect that some of you will now think of the term "Thermite". For those who don't know, Thermite is an extremely powerful pyrophoric mixture, consisting of powdered iron oxide and powdered aluminium which used with skill, can be used to either cut or weld large sections of steel, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXQnIgrXJd8. Anyone trying this "rust removal technique" had best make sure there are no sources of ignition anywhere near! As iron oxide is so hard that it is used as an abrasive, and aluminium foil is more "soft as putty" ranking, this does not sound like a good rust removal strategy to me. Why not just use steel wool or stainless steel wool? There's no 'magic electrolytic action' because there's no electrolyte! B __________________ Data beats opinions most times... that's my opinion, though I have no data on that.

3rd Apr 2019, 11:40 pm	#27
m0cemdave Heptode Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Bletchley, Buckinghamshire, UK. Posts: 884	Re: Rust removal from steel component on the cheap. I'm sure Thermite is very hard to ignite. When we made it at school (yes, such things were allowed in those days) we had to use a piece of burning Magnesium strip to start it off.

4th Apr 2019, 12:03 am	#28
Bazz4CQJ Nonode Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 2,820	Re: Rust removal from steel component on the cheap. Maybe so. I don't recall getting to 'play' with Thermite at school . However, we did some interesting stuff with sodium chlorate weedkiller in the days before it had inhibitor added to it, and a death or two was only narrowly avoided B __________________ Data beats opinions most times... that's my opinion, though I have no data on that. Last edited by Bazz4CQJ; 4th Apr 2019 at 12:09 am.

13th May 2019, 1:47 pm	#30
BulgingCap Pentode Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: South Coast, Western Australia. Posts: 118	Re: Rust removal from steel component on the cheap. I agree with Kalee: Oxalic acid, sold here as a concrete and patio cleaner in a granular form, is very cheap and superb. It needs no heating and the steel item can be left in the solution indefinitely without ill effect. I keep the solution in old 2L plastic milk bottles, and pour it into whatever plastic container best suits the shape of the item to be cleaned. It can be reused many times until it loses its potency. The rust disappears completely leaving a matt grey surface. It hurts like heck in a cut !! BC

13th May 2019, 1:56 pm	#31
BulgingCap Pentode Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: South Coast, Western Australia. Posts: 118	Re: Rust removal from steel component on the cheap. The local old boys recommend molasses for rust removal. It is readily available because sugar cane is grown in Oz. It seems to be a bit fierce and will eat away the steel if left too long. I have just searched out a story of a chap who dug a big hole, lined it with black plastic, and put a 1913 Cadillac car chassis and springs etc into a molasses solution. The narrator recalls that his elderly friend forgot about it for a while, and when he checked again the chassis had gone ! BC

20th May 2019, 10:43 am	#32
nicam49 Pentode Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Wigston, Leicester, UK. Posts: 166	Re: Rust removal from steel component on the cheap. All the above makes absorbing reading, is there any way of making any of the above (apart from the molasses) thixotropic so it can be applied to a vertical surface without dripping off?

20th May 2019, 2:34 pm	#33
GMB Nonode Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: near Reading (and sometimes Torquay) Posts: 2,368	Re: Rust removal from steel component on the cheap. A clue to how the original mixture works is that hydrogen peroxide has to be stabilised and tends to contain things like phosphoric acid. (Something that people who used it to whiten teeth discovered the hard way!)

20th May 2019, 10:59 pm	#34
LXSTEIN45 Pentode Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: South Manchester, UK. Posts: 222	Re: Rust removal from steel component on the cheap. Electrolysis works very well Attached Thumbnails

20th May 2019, 11:00 pm	#35
LXSTEIN45 Pentode Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: South Manchester, UK. Posts: 222	Re: Rust removal from steel component on the cheap. more pics... Attached Thumbnails

20th May 2019, 11:02 pm	#36
LXSTEIN45 Pentode Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: South Manchester, UK. Posts: 222	Re: Rust removal from steel component on the cheap. Just need to fill the pitting, and have finally confirmed the original colour as a sickly green, so after getting a photo sample from Pleasley museum I will finish this project! Attached Thumbnails

20th May 2019, 11:16 pm	#37
GMB Nonode Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: near Reading (and sometimes Torquay) Posts: 2,368	Re: Rust removal from steel component on the cheap. The electrolysis method can work well, but be aware that the result is said to re-rust very quickly unless painted without delay.

21st May 2019, 9:44 am	#39
GMB Nonode Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: near Reading (and sometimes Torquay) Posts: 2,368	Re: Rust removal from steel component on the cheap. The recommended electrolyte is washing soda (sodium carbonate). Do not be tempted to use common salt as this will promote re-rusting very well indeed. When I tried this technique I used iron as the other electrode on the grounds that I didn't want any other metal going into solution, but it gets messy as it oxidises and reduces the current. I suspect carbon would be best, or gold/platinum of course! Don't use copper or you will eventually end up copper plating the object.