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Vintage Amateur and Military Radio Amateur/military receivers and transmitters, morse, and any other related vintage comms equipment.

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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 9:21 am   #1
G6Tanuki
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Default When did "CV" numbering start?

A couple of the valves in a box of WWII-vintage NOS ex-US Octals, Acorns etc (all made by Westinghouise Canada, RCA, Tung-Sol) I acquired recently have little labels - see attachment.

This clearly dates from the period when the Forces were transitioning from their own stores-vocab for valves to the "CV" common-valve system.

But when did the CV system begin?

[Haslemere was the Admiralty Signal Establishment so I guess these particular US-sourced valves were destined for the Navy].
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 9:40 am   #2
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Default Re: When did "CV" numbering start?

http://www.r-type.org/static/time01.htm

1941, then.....
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 9:46 am   #3
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Default Re: When did "CV" numbering start?

According to this it was 1941.

It looks like the idea was certainly some time during WW2 and was clearly well in use by 1944 but date codes started in 1945 so may have been a bit transitional before that.

NB: the "stores-vocab" as you call it is something else. Valves originally had their army, navy or air-force number but also a stores reference code which originally seems rather unrelated to the valve number but when the CV system came in the stores reference codes became more logically related to it.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 9:53 am   #4
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Default Re: When did "CV" numbering start?

Thanks to both for the info: I somehow thought the CV numbering started later than 1941.

I wonder to what extent the entry of the USA into WWII had on the adoption of a consistent valve-numbering scheme by the UK? The US had its "JAN" [Joint Army-Navy] numbering scheme of course.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 10:41 am   #5
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Default Re: When did "CV" numbering start?

I would imagine that lend-lease accelerated adoption, as the UK was sourcing valves from many US and Canadian manufacturers unfamiliar with European types. It can't have been ideal to switch numbering systems in the middle of a war so there must have been a good reason to get on with it.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 10:51 am   #6
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Default Re: When did "CV" numbering start?

Perhaps a first attempt to stop silly duplication between the services, precisely because there was a war on?

Just looking at radios you have to wonder why each service was allowed to go off and develop their own rather similar gear.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 11:29 am   #7
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Default Re: When did "CV" numbering start?

G6Tanuki wrote:

"I wonder to what extent the entry of the USA into WWII had on the adoption of a consistent valve-numbering scheme by the UK? The US had its "JAN" [Joint Army-Navy] numbering scheme of course."

But I think the JAN nomenclature wasn't introduced until 1944/45 at the earliest and even then valves were not covered by this system but were designated by their commercial type number (RETMA system)

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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 11:34 am   #8
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Default Re: When did "CV" numbering start?

What was the 'official' designation for the syetm used in the US which gave valves numbers like VT-120 (the number for what is better known as the 954 Acorn) ??

I've got a May 1944 Acorn here whose box says

"Tube JAN-CTL-954 VT-120 110E/39"

I thought the "CTL" bit could be an abbreviation for the maker, but this one is made by Tung-Sol so "CTL" wouldn't make sense.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 11:53 am   #9
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Default Re: When did "CV" numbering start?

CTL does seem to be the code for that maker.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 12:04 pm   #10
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Default Re: When did "CV" numbering start?

I think Chatham was a subsidiary of Tung-Sol, so "CTL" would be credible when administrators might be faced with dozens or hundreds of manufacturer's abbreviations to come up with.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 1:05 pm   #11
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Default Re: When did "CV" numbering start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB View Post
CTL does seem to be the code for that maker.
According to http://www.r-type.org/articles/art-151.htm it seems that the leading C (or sometimes J) is not part of the manufacturer ID, but the last 2 letters are.

"Several US manufacturers made acorn types, particularly 955s, during WW II. As a result, most tubes found today are ex-military, and carry Joint Army-Navy (JAN) designations in either a long form or an abbreviated version ahead of the tube type number. The known makers are: GE (JAN-CG or JG); Hytron (JAN-CHY or JHY); Raytheon (JAN-CRP or JRP); RCA (JAN-CRC or JRC); Sonotone (JAN-COZ or JOZ); Tung-Sol (JAN-CTL or JTL); Westinghouse (JAN-CWL or JWL)."
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 3:41 pm   #12
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Default Re: When did "CV" numbering start?

Keith Thrower makes reference to this in his book on British Radio Valves the classic years P306, that it started towards the end of 1938 between the naval signal school and GEC to review valve development for RDF and the need to direct and rationalise valve types. This led, in late 1941 to the establishment of CV types covering the 3 services plus the Post Office. This eventually became a 7,000 page 8 volume register issued by the Ministry of Supply!
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Old 29th May 2018, 8:18 am   #13
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Default Re: When did "CV" numbering start?

I would recommend getting a copy of the book: "Tube Lore" by Lud Sibley.
It has all the info you need and more.

Also the Tube Collectors Assn, (Lud Sibley is the prez.) puts out a publication on a regular basis; The Tube Collector
Membership $20.00 USD/yr. and $25,00/yr elsewhere.
I actually ordered all of the issues from #1. Money very well spent. Weeks of reading and a massive amount of info on tubes. History, construction, companies, etc. World wide, not just U.S.
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Old 29th May 2018, 11:04 am   #14
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Default Re: When did "CV" numbering start?

All the government surplus radio equipment that was available in the '50s had CV number valves, or at least I don't recall seeing any that didn't.

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