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Old 9th Aug 2020, 1:33 am   #1
Chris55000
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Default Armstrong Radiogram in Cabinet with ugly hole?

Hi!

After a mammoth rush to Brighton & back last Wednesday after work we brought this back with a lovely Armstrong Jubilee Chassis and a Garrard RC110 changer.

I've not tested it yet as we've no space inside at home until we have a sort out, but can anyone suggest some means of blanking off/finishing this gash cut–out made in the front of it, presumably for something else to get added that never got done? Failing that, what are my chances of getting a new wood panel made to a similar finish that can be cut to fit the cabinet?

Unfortunately I have no idea who's cabinet it was, and my woodwork skills would make a donkey laugh – they're that bad!

It seems it belonged to the seller's dad, I got an envelope with an original Armstrong descriptive leaflet and instructions, and the envelope was postmarked "March 1972" by Armstrong themselves and was addressed to where I collected it from!

Chris Williams
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 1:56 am   #2
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Default Re: Armstrong Radiogram in Cabinet with ugly hole?

Assuming the remaining chassis is AM only perhaps the hole had an FM tuner ?
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 6:57 am   #3
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Default Re: Armstrong Radiogram in Cabinet with ugly hole?

Was there a matching Armstrong FM tuner? But maybe that hole needs bunging up with a nice Leak Troughline ?

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Old 9th Aug 2020, 8:12 am   #4
Chris55000
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Default Re: Armstrong Radiogram in Cabinet with ugly hole?

Hi!

Can't have been for an F.M. tuner as the Jubilee covers V.H.F./F.M. 87.5 to 108 MHz, so it's unlikely the chap wanted two F.M. tuners in one cabinet!

The Armstrong Jubilee has a Baxandall bass/treble control network and one extra stage of a.f. amplification (I bought the service data from this Forum as the seller didn't have it), so that probably minimised the need for a preamp unit!

Did Armstrong make any separate Amplifier Chassis I could look for to add a second channel perhaps?

Tape Preamplifier perhaps, and what would be a good model to look for?

Chris Williams

PS!

I did ask the original seller if she knew what her late Dad had planned to do with it and unfortunately she had no idea – it would have gone straight to the tip yard had she not noticed I'd won it a week last Friday evening!
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 9:04 am   #5
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Default Re: Armstrong Radiogram in Cabinet with ugly hole?

Ah! what about a cassette deck Mick.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 9:40 am   #6
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Default Re: Armstrong Radiogram in Cabinet with ugly hole?

If all else fails you could make a small drawer in which to keep useful odd cutlery, bits of string, half-dead batteries and perished elastic bands. I find such small drawers invaluable in various items of furniture around the house, and to give your drawer a more forum-specific appeal, you could add used components with very short legs snipped from forgotten projects
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 9:46 am   #7
Chris55000
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Default Re: Armstrong Radiogram in Cabinet with ugly hole?

Hi!

What about one of those plastic ventilation grilles often found in the bottoms of 1960's record–player and tape recorder cabinets – can you still get these?

I'll measure the dimensions of the cut–out and post later today – another member might have an idea as to what might have been planned if the size is known!

I remember in the mags up to the mid 1970s or so, there were specialist firms offering brand new Radiogram/hi–fi cabinets for sale, uncut and undrilled for existing equipment, but the chances of finding one today are probably next to zilch!

Can anybody suggest where I could get a new piece made or bought from?

I'll post more pictures later.

Chris Williams
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 9:59 am   #8
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Default Re: Armstrong Radiogram in Cabinet with ugly hole?

That looks to me to be a competently constructed DIY cabinet made from Sapele veneered 'Contiboard', which was veneered chipboard once commonly available from the likes of B&Q, Wickes and Homebase. Tastes change and nowadays maple and oak seem to be in vogue and Sapele less commonplace but still available. Typically, (and I'm guilty of this as behind me in my study are floor-to-ceiling bookcases I built in 1991!), it was finished with a couple of coats of Ronseal polyurethane to give a 'toffee apple' finish, which darkened it considerably to a reddish brown colour. (At lease they're behind me so not 'in my face' but a bit embarrassing when they appear on Zoom!).

Whoever constructed your cabinet resisted that temptation as it appears to still be light coloured, like unfinished Sapele Contiboard. There are varnishes which don't give that awful toffee apple effect. My son has a low long G-Plan coffee table which was a wedding present from my in-laws when my wife and I married in 1962 and set up home. It had been French polished. My son claimed it and asked if I could strip the French polish and apply a matt finish. I used a brush-applied oil based 'extra pale' 'clear dead flat' varnish by 'Polyvine'. Very pleased with the outcome.

This stuff:

https://www.jacksonsart.com/polyvine...kaAoLnEALw_wcB

The easiest way to deal with the' gash' would I think be to use a piece of say 10mm thick veneered ply or MDF applied over it, but the challenge will be to find something that's a close, if not exact match to the rest of the cabinet - you might that the construction grade ply sold by B&Q would suffice, which could be cut to size, then have the aperture for the tuner cut with a jigsaw, with holes for the controls, then glued over the existing panel (or even fixed with double-sided carpet tape).

A short while ago I made storage boxes from 12mm B&Q veneered construction grade ply for our woodturning club to store our mugs. The first pic shows what the veneer looks like before varnishing. In the other pics you'll see what the veneer looks like after varnishing, which illustrates how much it darkens when treated. It's not my finest work I hasten to add - they're just boxes with locks to hold 36 mugs to stop other light-fingered users of the village hall from using, 'losing' or abusing them. (I knocked up three boxes - two for mugs, the smaller one for bits and bobs such as spoons, teabags and what not). The smaller box was from Sapele Contiboard I'd had for years gathering dust in my garage. You'll see how much darker it is than the B&Q ply.

When the ply is unfinished, it may be a good match for your cabinet, but when it's been assaulted with polyurethane treacle, would look pretty ghastly. (It might be possible to lighten it by bleaching before varnishing - I wouldn't know).

You can buy veneered MDF & Ply in various thicknesses and also adhesive backed Sapele veneer from many sources. EG:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/14341393421...caAtunEALw_wcB

https://www.woodshopdirect.co.uk/cut...wn-cut-sapele/

I think finding a good or exact match to the rest of the cabinet might be a bigger challenge than making the panel, but I hope these notes might provide a few pointers.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 2:14 pm   #9
Chris55000
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Default Re: Armstrong Radiogram in Cabinet with ugly hole?

Afternoon David!

Thank you for giving me your time! Woodshop Direct looks like they can supply the stuff I need, ready–cut to specified sizes, so I'll order a piece from them!

How would the cabinet have been fitted together – would it have been fitted together with nails, screws, glue or even a combination of all three?

Chris Williams
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 2:29 pm   #10
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Default Re: Armstrong Radiogram in Cabinet with ugly hole?

That's top professional advice from David as usual Chris [just look at the mug boxes ]. As I understand it, though, this cabinet is a well made "one off" so the only return to apparent originality would be to infill the cut-out. Not so easy as you appreciate! Even if that was achieved, how balanced would it look then

Is there any evidence that there WAS some sort of shelf in the slot to maybe support [as suggested] a tape recorder? It depends on what you want to play through the system of course. I'd seek to put in a CD Player, a black one with maybe a gold trim around the actual opening. Matching the wood would not be so crucial then. It might even look totally "original".

For expediency, I'm sure you could locate a black grill to match quick and easy! Maybe there is room for an additional spkr behind it [bass/tweeter]. I'd probably mock up a piece of black card board across the space to see the effect against the tuner. I did it with an empty black Vac box recently when making a TV stand and getting the height right. I hope that's some help.

Dave

I've crossed with your response Chris but I'll leave my comments up anyway.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 4:31 pm   #11
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Default Re: Armstrong Radiogram in Cabinet with ugly hole?

I quite like the idea suggested of a drawer, you could have in it record cleaning cloths, adaptor for large centre hole records, whatever the modern equivalent of a "Dust Bug" is! and it would balance up the look with the radio on the other side.

Or one of those 70s top loading cassette players in a drawer or slide?
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 8:17 pm   #12
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Default Re: Armstrong Radiogram in Cabinet with ugly hole?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris55000 View Post
Afternoon David!

How would the cabinet have been fitted together – would it have been fitted together with nails, screws, glue or even a combination of all three?

Chris Williams
Almost certainly with dowels using a dowelling jig, and glue, because no joints are visible.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/30363234019...0aAkj-EALw_wcB

Anyone who can make a cabinet as neatly as that with the top cut to a curve and finished with iron-on edging veneer isn't going to resort to nails, screws or visible chipboard/MDF corner blocks such as these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-x-Plas...-/283486195281

The mug boxes I knocked up were just utilitarian - not furniture, so I used screws and nails.

They're tucked away in cupboards, so aren't too offensive on the eye.

(I made sure that the water-slide transfers I made and fixed to them had the Club's name on them - not mine!).

Good luck with your cabinet Chris.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 8:23 pm   #13
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Default Re: Armstrong Radiogram in Cabinet with ugly hole?

Hi Chris
What about using some place mat material that looks like woven squares similar to the dansette stuff. Ive used it for speaker grills in the past. You could even spray it to match the shade of the cabinet. I can bring you some to try if you like.

Mark
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 10:51 pm   #14
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Default Re: Armstrong Radiogram in Cabinet with ugly hole?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris55000 View Post
Tape Preamplifier perhaps, and what would be a good model to look for?
For a while, possibly mid-1950s through early 1960s, Armstrong did offer tape preamplifier units as the PABO series. The PABO-3 was the model suggested for use with the Jubilee Mk II radiogram chassis. Armstrong also offered outboard magnetic cartridge preamplifiers, both mono and stereo, for use with its radiogram chassis of the era.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris55000 View Post
Did Armstrong make any separate Amplifier Chassis I could look for to add a second channel perhaps?
Whilst Armstrong certainly made amplifiers, I am not aware that it offered any models that were specifically intended to add a second channel to an existing mono system.

If one looks at the Armstrong product history post-WWII, at least as can be determined from magazine advertisements and items, one could say that it was solely a radiogram chassis maker until 1954, when it introduced its first hi-fi amplifier. Thereafter it continued with the two product streams for quite a while, on the radiogram chassis side introducing FM-AM mono and then FM-AM stereo models. By early 1964, the tuner-amplifiers in its 200 series hi-fi components, namely the 227 (stereo) and 227M (mono) replaced the upper end of its radiogram chassis range, specifically the Stereo 12 Mk II and the Jubilee Mk II. Late in 1964 came the 127 and 127M, single-ended derivatives of the 227 and 227M, effectively as replacements for the Stereo 55 and AF208 radiogram chassis. That was the end of the traditional open-type radiogram chassis. The 200 series hi-fi components were replaced by the 400 series (and then by the 500 series), but the 227M, 127 and 127M were retained until into the 500 series era, then being referred to as the 27-series. I think that they were discontinued around 1969, as the last vestiges of Armstrong’s radiogram chassis heritage.

There were overlaps between the two product streams before the 200 series. Armstrong’s first FM tuner, the FM56, was intended for use both with the A10 hi-fi amplifier and as an FM adaptor with the AM-only radiogram chassis of the time, such as the FC48. The tuner section of the Stereo Twelve radiogram chassis was the same as the ST3 hi-fi FM-AM tuner.

Thus there were certainly opportunities for users to to mixing and matching to suit their own needs, although in this case nothing obvious comes to mind as to what was intended for unit to occupy the vacant opening.

Incidentally, the data on hand shows that both the Jubilee and Jubilee Mk II were three-band units, with FM, MW and LW. On the other hand, the simpler models, such as the AF208, were two-band, FM and MW. It’s hard to be sure, but from the picture, your example looks more like a two-band unit.


Cheers,
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 12:17 am   #15
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Default Re: Armstrong Radiogram in Cabinet with ugly hole?

I would be very tempted to fill the space with a panel with 4 old pot shafts operating 8 tact switches with space for a screen between them. The pot nuts would hold it in place.
Then find a music player that boots up to run from the tact switches and hang it on the back of the new panel.
The space then remains as found but covered.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 4:59 pm   #16
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Default Re: Armstrong Radiogram in Cabinet with ugly hole?

maybe it had an 8 track fitted at some point in its life then it got removed, as most of the ones we got here where cheap and not that reliable
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