Producing a vinyl record from a recorded tape.

[John10b]

If, say, RCA wanted to use one of their original master tapes to produce a vinyl record today would they still be able to do it?
As I understand it, there is great skill and knowledge required to press a Vinyl record by the engineer in order to achieve a near perfect pressing, are there engineers still doing this?
Also what about the pressing equipment, is it still available or have they manufactured new ones, or are they using the original circa 1950 ones.
I would be interested to know.
Cheers
John

[jamesperrett]

Yes, it would be perfectly possible to create a vinyl record from analogue tape today. In fact, I'm in the middle of a project to do exactly that where the original performances have been recorded to analogue multitrack tape which will then be mixed down to a stereo tape and then the vinyl cut from that stereo master. Everything is running at 15ips in this case.

There are quite a few Neumann cutting lathes around from the 70's and 80's as well as a few earlier Scullys which are in regular use to produce masters for pressing. There are people producing new record cutting machines but most of these are intended to produce 'dubplates' rather than proper masters.

I must admit that I don't often get to hear the results these days as the vinyl pressing runs that I'm involved in are fairly small and there aren't too many extra copies floating around.

[John10b]

Thank you very much, how very interesting and pleasing to know that vinyl records are still being made, i just hope that your knowledge is being passed onto the next generation. I suppose it all comes down to commercial reasons, as is the way of the world.
I would like to learn more about the art of record making, can you point me in the right direction.
Cheers
John

[barrymagrec]

Originally Posted by jamesperrett

Yes, it would be perfectly possible to create a vinyl record from analogue tape today. In fact, I'm in the middle of a project to do exactly that where the original performances have been recorded to analogue multitrack tape which will then be mixed down to a stereo tape and then the vinyl cut from that stereo master. Everything is running at 15ips in this case.

When the cut is done will it involve a tape machine with a pre-read head or would a digital delay be used.........

[John10b]

Hi since my previous post I decided to do a little research and was amazed to find so much information on the manufacturing of vinyl records on utube!
I will certainly be a lot wiser after viewing all these videos!
Cheers
John

[jamesperrett]

Originally Posted by barrymagrec

When the cut is done will it involve a tape machine with a pre-read head or would a digital delay be used.........

As I understand it, both methods are used. I believe that the look ahead on the Neumann lathes was actually one of the first applications of digital delay back in the late 70's.

[barrymagrec]

Yes indeed, my point was that the digital delay would negate the "all analogue" aspect of the project.

[dave walsh]

My son has told me that the cheapest available resource is the making of a "Dub Plate" as used by DJ's on mix decks. He says the quality can be good but they aren't designed to be that durable over time. I don't know the technical details though. No doubt RCA would be able to do much better. Ironically, tape and vinyl may yet turn out to have a greater resilience than more "advanced" technologys!
Dave W

[llama]

I'd think the ideal would be to firstly run the whole stereo mix into a computer and from that to generate a "map" of all the tracks in order to optimise the feed screw positioning for the actual cut. The recording would still be all analogue, just with a digitally-generated helper to maximise permissible cutting amplitude.
Graham

[jamesperrett]

Originally Posted by barrymagrec

Yes indeed, my point was that the digital delay would negate the "all analogue" aspect of the project.

I don't often get involved in the manufacturing side of things but for this particular project we will probably try to find a cutting engineer that uses the analogue look-ahead method. Of course, we could also cut it at fixed pitch as things would have been done up until the late 50's or early 60's.

[jamesperrett]

Originally Posted by llama

I'd think the ideal would be to firstly run the whole stereo mix into a computer and from that to generate a "map" of all the tracks in order to optimise the feed screw positioning for the actual cut. The recording would still be all analogue, just with a digitally-generated helper to maximise permissible cutting amplitude.
Graham

That's something that would be very easy to do nowadays - particularly if the master had a centre timecode track to synchronise the computer playback (although such machines aren't very common in recording studios). However, an extra head and a few tape guides were much more practical back when variable pitch was first invented.

[John10b]

After viewing a few videos on utube, i realise that many of the master tape recordings will have been transferred onto master discs and their “stampers”.
I presume that the master discs etc will survive for many many years while the tape will deteriorate.
Cheers
John

[Richard_FM]

I did wonder if the recent vinyl pressings of classic albums were remasters from the original tapes, or else pressed using the original master plates, if they hadn't worn out during the original press runs.

[John10b]

Good question, I wonder how durable the “stampers” are, how many can they stamp out, I would have thought, because it is soft material they are pressing, they could go for some considerable time.
The more you go into a topic the more questions arise.
Cheers
John

[jamesperrett]

The master discs are made from a soft material and only have a short shelf life before the audio quality starts to degrade. The metal mothers would probably last longer but they are often recycled if a particular record is unlikely to be re-pressed.

The master tapes and the vinyl records themselves seem to be the longest lasting part of the process. While some tapes do degrade to some extent, the degradation is reversable so tapes are the best source for any future releases.

Back in the 70's I seem to remember reading that the stampers were supposed to last for about 10000 copies - although apparently some operators boasted that they could get far more out of a single stamper. All the modern sources that I can find suggest 1000 copies as the limit.

[John10b]

Could you expand on your comment “tape degradation is reversible “ please.
Cheers
John

[Herald1360]

Originally Posted by jamesperrett

The master tapes and the vinyl records themselves seem to be the longest lasting part of the process. While some tapes do degrade to some extent, the degradation is reversible so tapes are the best source for any future releases.

Maybe the comma after extent should be moved back to after degrade?

[jamesperrett]

My comment about the degradation being reversible applies to the most common issue with Ampex tapes. In my experience the tape baking process makes a tape playable and the audio quality is little different from when the tape was new. I'd agree that the tape will become unplayable again after a short time but I've just baked and transferred some tapes that were last baked, transferred and then made publically available around 10 years ago and the sound coming off the tape in my studio certainly sounded no worse than the original release in the 1980's.

Also, on another tangent, if anyone is seriously interested in finding out more about the current state of play in vinyl cutting and manufacturing there is always the Lathe Trolls forum at

https://www.lathetrolls.com/index.php

[John10b]

Thank you for the link etc, I will be taking a look.
I took a look at another video on tube, and was delighted to see many youngsters being shown around an American Vinyl pressing company, which seems to be doing well, interestingly they made some of their discs multicoloured.
Cheers
John

[Ted Kendall]

Binder hydrolysis (sticky shed) is temporarily reversible by baking - vinegar syndrome, which affects acetate tapes, is not - only hope here is to get the information off before it descends into gooey mess.