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Old 19th Jul 2017, 3:18 pm   #1
LukeG83
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Default Long standing numbers

Just visited Brampton this weekend and was shocked to see 4 digit local phone numbers still in use. Did a bit of research and read some interesting posts on this forum documenting number formats in the UK.

In Lancashire we seem to have a lot of 5 digit numbers still in use on Chipping (01995), Bolton(01204), Lancaster (01524) and other STD areas...

I work at Lancaster University and our main switchboard number is still Lancaster 65201. Im fairly certain this is the original number as I found documents in our archive from the late 1960s with the same number on!

The only thing that has changed in 51 years is the dialling code.

Made me think, I wonder what business has had the same number for the longest? Without any additional numbers added to bulk it up to modern 5, 6 or 7 digit numbers. Surely 51 years is close to a record, bbut Im happy to be proved wrong!
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 6:18 pm   #2
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Default Re: Long standing numbers

There are over forty exchanges still with five digit numbers and Brampton is the only one still with four digit numbers. Brampton has numbers in the 2XXX/3XXX, 4XXXX/5XXXX and 2XXXX ranges. Notice anything odd? Two ranges that start with a '2'. The difference is that the 2XXXX range has the dialling code 01697 4 whilst the four digit numbers and the 4XXXX/5XXXX have a different code 01697 7. Callers dialling between the two groups have to dial the full code and number but between numbers within the same code they can just dial the number without the code. So a four digit number can dial just four digits to reach another or one of the 4XXXX/5XXXX five digit numbers.

There are bound to be other numbers over fifty years old on some of the forty plus exchanges with five digit numbers. Many auto exchanges started out with five digit numbers when they went auto back in the 1950's. St Helens Cricket Club for instance still have their number from the early 1960's as does the ST Helens Timber Company. I don't doubt there others.
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 6:32 pm   #3
mark_in_manc
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Default Re: Long standing numbers

If I knew what I was doing I guess I could google this - but what about city numbers which work xyz abcd - when do they date from? Around here I got the impression that many could be 'spelt', which is a convention that predates me as a phone user - CENtral = 236, PENdleton = 736 - do these go back a long way?

I ask since in their 'number' form, numbers like 736 abcd are still current and seem to have been around a long time.

Last edited by mark_in_manc; 19th Jul 2017 at 6:39 pm.
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 8:13 pm   #4
Pellseinydd
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Default Re: Long standing numbers

The automatic 'Director' system which used seven digit numbers with the first three being based on the alpha/numeric equivalent of the first three letters of the exchange was introduced initially in London c1926. There was no code between the exchanges within the same 'Director' area - they just dialled the seven digits. London was followed by Birmingham, Manchester Liverpool and Glasgow (not necessarily in that order) with Edinburgh finally joining in the early 1950's. The conversion to 'All Figure Numbering' commenced in the mid 1960's with 'Sectorisation' raking place shortly afterwards where in many cases the codes were changed. Thus 'WHItehall' (944 xxxx) became 930 xxxx and these days, there are several 'units' for Whitehall, each with its own code now in the 020 7xxx range.

I'm sure you could find some numbers on an exchange whose code wasn't changed for the areas involved in the 'sectorisation' .
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 10:04 pm   #5
Graham G3ZVT
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Default Re: Long standing numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pellseinydd View Post
There are bound to be other numbers over fifty years old
My house for a start.
About 20 years ago I found a business style card behind the skirting board in the gas meter cupboard, it said "We are now in the telephone" and appeared to date from the mid 1930s and almost certainly from when the line was first put in.
The number was, and still is the same as on the card. Even the director has not changed PRE = 773
So, If I'm right this house could have had the same number for 80 years.

What's the latest date that the PO could have installed the Bell No 1A that is still here?

Is there an easy way I can research this? The PO phone books seem to be behind a paywall run by Ancestry.co.uk

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Old 20th Jul 2017, 10:33 am   #6
OscarFoxtrot
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Default Re: Long standing numbers

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Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
What's the latest date that the PO could have installed the Bell No 1A that is still here?
The date of manufacture/refurb may be stamped on the back of the bellset. Bellset 1 was used with Tele No. 2 which dates from 1910, I don't know about 1A, and was replaced by Bellset 25, c. 1929?
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 11:31 am   #7
Pellseinydd
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Note - Bellset No 1 was replaced by Bellset No 25. The Bellset No 25 was introduced in 1932 according to the date on the N525 diagram but there is no mention of it as an alternative to the Bellset No 1 on N diagrams until editions dated 1934.

However the 'Bell 1A' was purely an extension bell for use as an internal magneto extension bell and was not 'linked' to any particular telephone.

The 'Bell 1A' was still listed in the 1956 'Vocabulary of Engineering Stores' as 'available for issue for maintenance purposes' . So could be fitted in that era if only extension bell 'to hand' - but would have shown a much earlier date on the rear - hence not a reliable 'date of installation.

The 'Bell 1A' was superseded by the 'Bell 59A' (looks very like a Bellset 25/26 but only a bell inside and no other components - the difference between the GPO's designation of bell/bellset!) or a 'Bell 64D'.
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 9:46 pm   #8
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Default Re: Long standing numbers

Quote:
However the 'Bell 1A' was purely an extension bell for use as an internal magneto extension bell and was not 'linked' to any particular telephone.
I was very careful not to say bellset, this was discussed recently and I was paying attention.

The markings look like they are original, but of course the bell could have been reissued. Feb 1934?
I'm still not sure when the Bell No1A was first offered.

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Old 20th Jul 2017, 10:00 pm   #9
Pellseinydd
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Stampings indicate it was made by GEC in 1923. The '234' is the GPO equivalent of 'Mark 1' i.e. the first version. '235' is the second version and so on... Why the GPO was different to anyone-else is anyone's guess? But recovered kit went back into the local stores and would be cleaned up in a local 'wipe-up workshop' or if too bad went back to Factories Department for a full refurbishment. Hence kit went in and out of the stores - the GPO was a very 'green' firm from way back. Wooden PMBX's in particular were sent back, rewired and came out as a later model. I remember seeing a preWW1 wooden cordless table top PMBX being reissued in the early 1960's having been rewired! Hence difficult to date when an item was fitted.
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 10:07 pm   #10
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Default Re: Long standing numbers

A couple of other notes about the telephone installation that was here when we moved here in 1976.
The first DIY job I did was to remove some very unsightly wiring from the front of the house that fed the bedroom extension. It was two runs of two core cable, that looked like modern 1mm twin+earth. It was actually lead sheathed and in good condition.

To this day there are fragments in a mortar seam on a side wall of that tightly twisted bare copper wire that was used as a functional earth for the shared service.

The Bell No1A was on the kitchen wall it was covered in layers of paint, I made two mistakes, I finished it with polyurethane varnish and, probably worse, I polished the gongs to down to the brass, I think they were supposed to be black.

I suppose I was an incorrigible Philistine, but I've mended my ways.
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 10:26 pm   #11
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Default Re: Long standing numbers

Can we stay on topic please.

Long standing numbers.
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