Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

[German Dalek]

Hi RetroHacker!
I am not an expert with VCRs, but I must have a box of new shrink-wrapped
Video 2000 tapes which are recorded with (stupid) movies.
I don´t know where they are.
It is possible, that I have thrown some away (because of the stupid movies).
Because I have so much problems around my head, I cannot search for them NOW.
If you are interested I shall search for them in late spring/summer.

Regards,
German Dalek

[electronicskip]

I gave away all my V2000S Both Philips and Grundig very recently to a forum member along with documentation (about 7 machines ) . loved the format but they just took up so much room so i decided to start a declutter!
Having said that im due to go and help empty a defunct TV workshop this weekend so will look out for V2000 related stuff as i know the guy who ran it used to sell them.

[RetroHacker]

Originally Posted by German Dalek

Hi RetroHacker!
I am not an expert with VCRs, but I must have a box of new shrink-wrapped
Video 2000 tapes which are recorded with (stupid) movies.
I don´t know where they are.
It is possible, that I have thrown some away (because of the stupid movies).
Because I have so much problems around my head, I cannot search for them NOW.
If you are interested I shall search for them in late spring/summer.

Regards,
German Dalek

That would be very much appreciated! Yes - I would definitely be interested. Video 2000 and VCR type tapes are very difficult for me to get, as I am located in the US. I'm mostly limited to what I can find on eBay that's been listed with international shipping.

I have recently gotten my VR2334 up and running. This is a bit more convenient in that it already has composite input via the SCART connector. One of the few tapes I have is blank, and I used it to record some video (using some other equipment to convert NTSC to PAL), and was able to record a tape that plays pretty darn good on the VR2334. Unfortunately, that same tape does not play properly on the VR2020 - the picture looks more or less OK but it jumps and rolls a lot. I need to spend more time with the docs for the VR2020 to understand and verify it's setup. Of course, I also don't know if the VR2334 is set up properly either. It does seem to behave about the same as the VR2020 does with the various tapes that don't play correctly, lending credibility to the thought that some of these tapes are simply damaged. The fact the tape is curled/cupped on many of them also seems to indicate that they perhaps were poorly stored.

[Techman]

Originally Posted by RetroHacker

The fact the tape is curled/cupped on many of them also seems to indicate that they perhaps were poorly stored.

All my tapes are like that, so seems to be fairly normal...although mine could have been stored badly at some time - I've had them for years!

I powered my VR2022 up and connected it to a small 8" TV to use as a convenient monitor. It worked, but with noticeable patterning that would certainly have looked worse on a larger display monitor. It did the occasional de-lace and shut down every now and then, but improved the longer it was used. It made the room smell of burnt Rifa capacitor as it warmed up and I then remembered that it blew up four years ago and filled the room with smoke, but I never bothered doing anything about it at the time, due to it being fitted in an awkward place and a bit of a fiddle to get at.

I was quite enjoying playing those old tapes with comedy, period adverts (it's funny how I detest adverts, but quite enjoy seeing the old ones that I used to hate) and "news at ten" from the time, but unfortunately it started at first intermittently going into a 'picture search' type fast forward, but without any actual picture, before finally packing up altogether. It ended up winding uncontrollably, but not fast, to the end of one side of a tape and in the end either broke the tape or perhaps just pulled the end off the spool, I haven't opened the tape case to check yet.

It's gone into a state of no operation of any of the controls, not being able to eject the tape or set the clock, which I seem to think is a known fault condition with these and seems to be a similar state to the other VR2020 machine that I mentioned, so two with the same fault now.

I opened up the machine and as can be seen in one of the pictures below, the cable to one of the lacing arms had come out of its track - now refitted back to how it should be. I had a look at the processor board and the backup battery isn't in too good a shape, but not particularly leaking badly (yet), but I did wonder whether it had leaked and caused any damage to the print and socket etc. There was still 1.7 volts across it with the board removed, so although not in a good state, it's not totally duff. I probably ought to have removed it altogether, as I suspect the machine would still function without it, however, I left it in and put the board back for the time being, there was no leakage damage to the board, picture below.

I decided to open up the mains input socket box while I was at it and remove that blown up Rifa capacitor - picture below. I just unsoldered and removed it for the time being, not replacing it with a new one, as it would be a waste of a capacitor if I eventually scrap the machine - and it'll work just fine without it.

I've put it all back together for the time being, as I don't want bits to get lost or damaged and I've got a lot of other things on the go at the moment. However, if anyone has any ideas on this particular fault condition, I may have another look at it in the future, although I seem to remember there was some thoughts that this particular type of fault could be a main processor chip fault.

[German Dalek]

[QUOTE=RetroHacker;1545258]

Originally Posted by German Dalek

Hi RetroHacker!


That would be very much appreciated! Yes - I would definitely be interested. Video 2000 and VCR type tapes are very difficult for me to get, as I am located in the US. I'm mostly limited to what I can find on eBay that's been listed with international shipping.

I have recently gotten my VR2334 up and running. This is a bit more convenient in that it already has composite input via the SCART connector. One of the few tapes I have is blank, and I used it to record some video (using some other equipment to convert NTSC to PAL), and was able to record a tape that plays pretty darn good on the VR2334. Unfortunately, that same tape does not play properly on the VR2020 - the picture looks more or less OK but it jumps and rolls a lot. I need to spend more time with the docs for the VR2020 to understand and verify it's setup. Of course, I also don't know if the VR2334 is set up properly either. It does seem to behave about the same as the VR2020 does with the various tapes that don't play correctly, lending credibility to the thought that some of these tapes are simply damaged. The fact the tape is curled/cupped on many of them also seems to indicate that they perhaps were poorly stored.

O.K., I shall do it.
B.t.w., I have a lot of the old VCR tapes. Anywhere, here or inside another forum was told, that these tapes are very bad, just good enough to damage the drum!
I have the idea, to rewind a VCR cassette with a HQ-S-VHS tape (This was an advice) and record it for you with clean stuff.
Because my machines don´t run, I have to ask somebody to give me a hand.
I have an idea, whom I can ask.
I have all the old tapes from curbside, my experience is, that most people dealed with a "reasonable" recording quality.
Remember that most/all recordings were done with the private antenna as a source.
That would give you a chance to realize, what these machines really can do.
Regards,
German Dalek

[Maarten]

Originally Posted by Techman

I probably ought to have removed it altogether, as I suspect the machine would still function without it, however, I left it in and put the board back for the time being, there was no leakage damage to the board, picture below.
.

I can see green residue in the picture, so there's at least some damage. Even if traces or parts aren't o/c, there might be leakage paths or stray voltages. Also, 1.7V might put the circuitry in an unknown state.

[RetroHacker]

Originally Posted by Techman

I had a look at the processor board and the backup battery isn't in too good a shape, but not particularly leaking badly (yet), but I did wonder whether it had leaked and caused any damage to the print and socket etc. There was still 1.7 volts across it with the board removed, so although not in a good state, it's not totally duff. I probably ought to have removed it altogether, as I suspect the machine would still function without it, however, I left it in and put the board back for the time being, there was no leakage damage to the board, picture below.

I can't speak for the VR2022, but the VR2020 runs happily without the battery installed at all. My VR2020's original system control board was completely destroyed by battery corrosion. While technically I could repair it - it would take hours and dozens of jumper wires to patch dissolved traces. The VR2021 I have, the head drum is ruined by corrosion, but fortunately it's system control board battery had not leaked, so I was able to use it's board. I cut the battery out preemptively, however. The machine runs just fine without that battery installed, I think it's only purpose was to remember the time and program settings when the power was lost. I would say at this point, that it's a good idea to remove any of these batteries still lurking in machines before they leak - or to clean up and limit the damage if they've already begun. Leaking batteries are also a huge problem in my other hobby of collecting vintage computers. Pinball machines and arcade games too. Either nobody thought we'd still be trying to use this stuff in 30 years, or they didn't realize the batteries would leak. Well, they at least outlived the warranty period

[RetroHacker]

Originally Posted by German Dalek

O.K., I shall do it.
B.t.w., I have a lot of the old VCR tapes. Anywhere, here or inside another forum was told, that these tapes are very bad, just good enough to damage the drum!
I have the idea, to rewind a VCR cassette with a HQ-S-VHS tape (This was an advice) and record it for you with clean stuff.
Because my machines don´t run, I have to ask somebody to give me a hand.
I have an idea, whom I can ask.
I have all the old tapes from curbside, my experience is, that most people dealed with a "reasonable" recording quality.
Remember that most/all recordings were done with the private antenna as a source.
That would give you a chance to realize, what these machines really can do.
Regards,
German Dalek

Thanks! Much appreciated!

I have run in to some shedding VHS and Beta tapes, and especially Umatic tapes - tapes that clog the heads and stick in the guides, drag and slow down rewind and fast forward. I've got a setup for baking tapes that I've had some success with, to dry out the binder and get a tape to play without jamming. I've primarily used it on nine track computer tapes for data recovery, but I'm hoping it will work for video as well, as I have a growing stack of Umatic and Beta tapes I want to recover. I do worry about the longevity of VCR format tapes, but have not experienced that yet. I know the media formulation is different, and I don't know if they suffer the same sorts of sticky-shed that Umatic is very prone to. The Video 2000 tapes I have are mostly curled/cupped, but they don't seem to shed oxide.

I have a couple of VCR/VCR-LP machines I need to spend some serious time with. Getting one shipped here intact is difficult, and while what I have wasn't working when it was shipped, international shipping has not done them any favors. Not to mention the difficulty buying things based on only a few photos of the outer casing, only to receive something that's a rusty mess inside. But, that is my next project, to repair one of these to full working order, I think I have enough good parts to build at least one. I started with Video 2000 because I figured it was similar enough to VHS (visually, anyway, with two reels next to each other) that it would be easier - how wrong I was once I started trying to understand the track following! The saving grace of Video 2000 is the beautiful design with individual motors for every function, meaning no belts! It's such a well made mechanism, I really love it. I have various belts on order for the VCR format stuff, however, so that will be a fun adventure to get going. Of course, then, there is the other interesting challenge of adapting things to work with my available power. The voltage is easy, all these machines seem to have strappings to change the input side of the transformer over to 110V. The VR2020 has one single AC synchronous motor, which, while I know it'll be running too fast on 60hz instead of 50, it does not appear to affect anything, as it's only used for threading and unthreading the tape. Speed isn't that important. The N1500, however... uses AC synchronous motors for the drum and capstan, with magnetic braking for speed regulation. Which I'm sure would not be happy to compensate for a 20% increase in speed! That's going to be a challenge... and content for a completely different thread at another time. haha.

[German Dalek]

[QUOTE=RetroHacker;1545686]

Originally Posted by German Dalek

The N1500, however... uses AC synchronous motors for the drum and capstan, with magnetic braking for speed regulation. Which I'm sure would not be happy to compensate for a 20% increase in speed! That's going to be a challenge... and content for a completely different thread at another time. haha.

Hi,
The last problem might be not that big...
I`ve heard, that some audio-fools use this way to solve the 60 Hz problem on this side of the Atlantic:
They use a 50 Hz generator (a common adjustable Sinus-generator like the average Joe repairman owns)
and an adjustable safety power transformer (connected backwards).
The power consumption of a VCR is not high.
I have never tested it on my own, but it sounds good.

I had the same 60 Hz problem with my Marantz SLT 12 record player.
But I don´t like too much electronic boxes hanging around.
Solution was, that a company made me a new pulley.
The pre-owner of my Marantz used the record player always playing too slow.
It was a private import from NY/NY when the record player was new in the early 60s.
Only a 220/117 Volts transformer was added in the states.

So changing the pulley is another option.

Regards,
German Dalek

[German Dalek]

There is something about V-2000 on YT/in german:

Old VCR/Siemens, same as mine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Q3E6fju_E

The end of V-2000:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPPGzM8KF1E

How to repair a V-2000 recorder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0wwu9Vjtj8

How to repair a V-2000 recorder/part 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfRxRPL6kNg

How to repair a V-2000 recorder/part 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0DpWpzovk4

How to repair a V-2000 recorder/in italian:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2WBTDp3jX8

The best system: V-2000/sales literature:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0GbiCOXfR0

Hope it helps....... even it is in german & italian language

Regards,

[simpsons]

Wow

Many thanks German Dalek

What a good reason to improve my German language skills.

Italian is a lovely language too.

Chris

[German Dalek]

Thanks for the flowers!

Here is more!

V-2000 in czech language:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbhP2CTD1b8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbhP2CTD1b8&t=864s

V-2000 history in english:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLUnwbn8rjQ

Grundig V-2000 converted to a "media center V2":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMprmkQAOmg

V-2000 repair in english:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWjLNalBU2c

Something about used V-2000 cassettes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pqqDlLvqds

Functions of a Grundig V-2000 / 2 x 4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WRCFeX1gYY

Philips VR 2414 / V-2000:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxH5PRajiu0

Philips VR 2022 in english:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFWQJMAALFI

Philips V-2000 Stereo demonstration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33I6aXdLFq0

Philips VR 2020 demonstration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2yTWGZPwtw


Regards,
German Dalek

[simpsons]

Thank you Retrohacker for starting this post and all those who have added their experiences to the topic.

I too have a number of VIdeo 2000 format machine and had earlier heard that replacing the tape with more modern VHS stock would make quite a difference to the video replay quality.

I wonder though, would a S Video tape be even better or would it, as with using such tape in a non S Video machine, be underbiased?

Chris

[whaka54]

I've put an answer few days ago, but seems it wasn't validated.
So i did it a bit shorter, rolling picture may also come from bad head commutation point.
On VR20xx you can adjust it by moving back or forward the tacho sensor which is upper the head drum.

Maybe there's also a variable resistor somewhere for that, not sure at all.

[German Dalek]

Hi Chris,

It was told, that S-VHS tapes are made of better quality.
This means minor drop-outs, because S-VHS was common used
for commercial works.

P.S.
A Philips V-2000 commercial:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR0cftWQyFo

Grundig V-2000 in the Czech republic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Arb1qUNa80

Grundig V-2000 in Italy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIBsUpbBvAY

V-2000 Service in english:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JpxjyGVX9Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b16DeHDAoRE

Regards,
German Dalek

[Amtec123]

Regarding using video tapes on systems they were not designed for.
It should be remembered that the rf drive level should be set to saturate the magnetic tape, not the head. Depending on the format this is likely to be different in each case. Therefore to achieve optimum performance the record drive should match the tape, sufficiently greater drive levels may not be available for later high coercivity tapes.

[stevehertz]

Originally Posted by Amtec123

Regarding using video tapes on systems they were not designed for.
It should be remembered that the rf drive level should be set to saturate the magnetic tape, not the head. Depending on the format this is likely to be different in each case. Therefore to achieve optimum performance the record drive should match the tape, sufficiently greater drive levels may not be available for later high coercivity tapes.

Point taken but I've never experienced a problem using latest/last generation VHS tape in Betamax, V2000 (both generations), and Philips 1700 machines. In fact, as I've already mentioned, the results were superb, verging on (to the eye) off-air quality.

[German Dalek]

Originally Posted by Amtec123

Regarding using video tapes on systems they were not designed for.
It should be remembered that the rf drive level should be set to saturate the magnetic tape, not the head. Depending on the format this is likely to be different in each case. Therefore to achieve optimum performance the record drive should match the tape, sufficiently greater drive levels may not be available for later high coercivity tapes.

Hi,
That sounds interesting.
But I never saw a VCR with a "tape quality switch" like HiFi cassette recorders have: FE, FERRO-CHROME, CHROME & METAL

WHY?

B.t.w., another italian power supply repair:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9135CFzd_A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TByobEzl-4

Happy weekend!
German Dalek

[German Dalek]

Here are more interesting V-2000 videos:

From France:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSclSjV7QcA

User-Manual in english/funny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWiUB_a3bPI

Regards,
German Dalek

[Amtec123]

Originally Posted by stevehertz

Point taken but I've never experienced a problem using latest/last generation VHS tape in Betamax, V2000 (both generations), and Philips 1700 machines. In fact, as I've already mentioned, the results were superb, verging on (to the eye) off-air quality.

Stevehertz,
Certainly tape quality improved greatly towards the end of mass usage, particularly with respect to s/n and surface defects. Out of interest did you ever try using 'S'-VHS tape, which I know required higher rf drive.

German Dalek,
I suspect the lack of switching between tape types was that only one version was ever available. Despite manufacturers claiming that their tape was better than a rival company, they all had to be compatible.

Also have a good weekend,
Les