Smiths Sectric Repair

[paulmolive]

Hello, Sorry if this has been discussed on another thread but I'm looking for help with my Smiths Sectric clock. I recently inherited the clock and it has not run for 20+ years. When I plug it in, there is no movement or sound. No hum or buzz that would indicate it was getting power. I've been told that it is likely the coil. Everyone I have contacted tells me it cannot be fixed. Am I out of luck? Is there anyone who repairs/restores these? I was considering retrofitting it with a battery motor, but I would rather keep it original if possible. I have attached a picture of what the clock looks like. I am in Canada. If anyone has any information, I would greatly appreciate the help. Thanks!

[Nickthedentist]

Welcome, Paul(?).

That's a Delhi Major. Very popular over here at one time, but a rare sight now.

Could you post a picture of the back of the clock, showing the movement that's currently fitted?

Do you have a multimeter (VOM), even a cheap $5 one?

Nick.

[Mike Phelan]

Welcome, Paul.

I'm rather surprised that folks say it cannot be fixed as it's just a single coil that needs rewinding.

I've googled "Armature rewinding Ontario" and come up with 109 companies!

Well done for not fitting a battery as this is effectively destroying a good clock and just keeping the dial and case!

[TrevorG3VLF]

Check the resistance between the input terminals. If there is any connection then it is unlikely to be the coil.

Edit: The last clock I looked at which would not run was full of thrips.

[paulmolive]

Thanks for the replies guys.. Yes Delhi Major is stamped on the back. Will post a pic of the back asap.

I have a multimeter but unfortunately I have never used one. Some homework to be done

Every clock repair guy around here has told me it's a lost cause. Maybe I've been looking in the wrong places.

[Leon Crampin]

If your clock is a European import, it will require a 200/250V 50Hz supply to keep time. Check the voltage and frequency required on the rear of the clock.

The 120V 60Hz supply usually found in Canada will not operate a European model, and although changing the supply voltage at the low power required is trivial, converting your supply frequency to 50Hz for the clock is not.

Please don't scrap the original Smiths movement - maybe tape it to the inside of the clock case. Very reluctantly, in your situation a quartz movement may be the most sensible fix if you want to use the clock. Try not to butcher the original hands - the seconds hand will need a reducing bush as it has a large centre hole.

I have one of these clocks in my kitchen in a "retro" setting - at least in that area. It looks good and runs perfectly silently if you lightly grease the fibre gear when overhauling the movement.

Leon.

[Nickthedentist]

Good points, Leon. I had rather assumed that this clock was exported to Canada by Smiths when it was new, but that may not be the case.

If it was designed for Canadian mains and the coil is open circuit, a re-wind is feasible, if fiddly.

Alternatively, it can be rewound by hand with thicker wire and run from a low-voltage supply, see http://sound.westhost.com/clocks/ocm.html

Nick.

One simple test is to leave it on for an hour or two, the coil should get slightly warm if it is OK. Another thing, does this clock need 'starting' ?

[paulmolive]

Here's a picture of the back.

I'm pretty sure it was exported new for use in North America. It was a fixture in my Grandfather's restaurant from the 50s to the late 70s. And it continued to work until the 1990s.

I will try some of the armature winding places today. Also, will try the multimeter

I tried the starting procedure already.. It's dead. No power/hum/heat whatsoever.

[julie_m]

Strictly speaking, it's the stator that needs rewinding. The armature in these clock motors is just a simple permanent magnet, and doesn't have any windings of its own.

The figures on the back confirm that this clock is designed for operation on the Canadian / American mains of 110 volts, 60 cycles per second.

* TESTING PROCEDURE * -- requires a multimeter, even a cheap $10 one will do fine.
With the power to the clock disconnected, select the highest resistance range, probably 200 kΩ or 2 MΩ, on your meter; and leave the probes unconnected. The display probably will show something like just "1" or "OL". Note this reading; it is the meter's overload indication. Briefly touch the probes against each other; the display should now show zero kΩ. Now connect your meter probes to the clock terminals (the plug pins probably are as good a place as any). The resistance should fall from overload to a few kΩ. Switch down through the resistance ranges if you need to; take the reading on the lowest range that does not show an overload indication (as noted earlier with the probes not connected to anything).

If you get an overload indication at all times with the probes connected to the plug pins, try again with the probes at the terminals on the coil behind the motor cover. If you get a sensible reading then, it must mean the power lead has a break in one of its wires somewhere. For the price of the bits nowadays, you may as well just get a new length of flex (which will meet modern safety regulations) and a fit-it-yourself plug.

Otherwise if the meter always reads overload even with the probes connected to the ends of the coil, it means the coil is shot and needs to be rewound. You can do this yourself, but it's fiddly. Some people use thicker wire than the original to rewind the coil, and then power the clock motor from a step-down transformer (the voltage isn't so critical as the frequency; as long as the stator coil is actually creating a strong enough magnetic field to attract and repel the armature around, and is not getting unduly hot, all that matters is how many reversals the supply makes). Your 110 V version may well already be wound with a more manageable thickness of wire than the older British / European 240 / 220 V versions.

[Mike Phelan]

Originally Posted by paulmolive

I tried the starting procedure already.. It's dead. No power/hum/heat whatsoever.

That means that the coil is definitely open circuit (has a break in it) hence no point bothering with a meter.

Originally Posted by ajs_derby

Strictly speaking, it's the stator that needs rewinding. The armature in these clock motors is just a simple permanent magnet, and doesn't have any windings of its own.

To clarify (or confuse) you the rotating magnet bit is called a "rotor"; my mention of an armature was purely for googling purposes.

Good luck!

[Nickthedentist]

The movement is Smith's "Bijou" model. And you're right, it's definitely an export version which is good news.

Some hints on dating here: http://www.electric-clocks.co.uk/SMI...trademarks.htm

[paulmolive]

Thank you everybody for your input

Hopefully I can find someone here locally who will rewind the coil.. Anyone have a guess what it might cost? Benchwork hours?

[Mike Phelan]

It would probably take about an hour to rewind the stator coil, Paul.

[paulmolive]

I spoke to six people here locally today.. electric motor repair/rewind companies. They all told me "no way" the job is "too small" and not worth the time. One guy said he would do it for $300, I thought he was joking.

Pretty sure I'm gonna have to put a battery motor in it Does anyone know of someone who would work on this in the UK? Or North America? I don't mind mailing it. I could just mail the motor/movement so the shipping is not too crazy.

Cheers

[Mike Phelan]

I'd say your idea is best - there are at least two people on here who would rewind the coil for you.
Best to just send the movement here.
$300, eh? I'm sure we can improve on that!

Tell you what; if one of our rewinding folk want to do it, I'll overhaul the rest of the movement for you FOC. Both of our rewinding folk are usually at Golborne (6th April) and so am I so that might be the way forward.

For now, we'll wait until someone offers to rewind your stator and take it from there.

Please resist destroying the clock with a q***tz motor!

[Nickthedentist]

Are you vaguely technically-minded? If so, the link in post 7 shows you how you can rewind it by hand using fewer turns of much thicker wire, which is something that can be done at home with a little patience and not much skill. The clock can then be powered from a low-voltage AC transformer.

But are you ABSOLUTELY sure the coil is shot? Can you borrow a multimeter?

Nick.

You could do a lot worse than asking one of our UK rewinders, I had a complete HT/LT transformer rewound for my A22 for a LOT less than $300. Ed-Dinning is one of them.

[Mike Phelan]

Originally Posted by paulmolive

No hum or buzz that would indicate it was getting power. I've been told that it is likely the coil.

Originally Posted by paulmolive

I tried the starting procedure already.. It's dead. No power/hum/heat whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Nickthedentist

But are you ABSOLUTELY sure the coil is shot? Can you borrow a multimeter?

If the supply is reaching the clock, no hum or buzz = break in coil.
Let's see if anyone here offers to rewind it.

[Nickthedentist]

I agree, but sometimes the signs of the coil being energised are subtle in the extreme, especially if it's the first synchronous clock you've dealt with, hence the capital letters