Repairing a Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe Radiogram - any advice useful! - Page 2 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

G6ONEDave · 21st Jan 2021, 12:16 pm

Not sure what the 'snap' noise was but if the motor photos were taken after it, then the motor appears to be intact. With the power off, try rotating the motor shaft by hand to see if it rotates freely. it's possible that the bottom motor bearing and or the top bearing have become off centre and are acting as a brake on the shaft. Also check that the rotating magnet has not parted company with the shaft going through it. If you have a multimeter of some sort, do an ohms test across the motor windings to check for continuity. I would have thought that unless you are Superman it's unlikely that the motor shaft has got bent or snapped.
Dave

ms660 · 21st Jan 2021, 1:29 pm

That looks like a 240 volt motor in the photo's with the unused Yellow tap for heater series connected valves.

Lawrence.

rjmontgomery · 21st Jan 2021, 1:32 pm

Thank you, this is great!

Took the motor apart and you're right - nothing has broken, the motor shaft's still intact and rotates freely. In fact, it was a little sticky but I've carefully added some WD40 and it now moves much more smoothly - I wouldn't be surprised if that was causing some of the issues I was having with turntable speed before it broke.

Unfortunately nothing seems to be making the magnet spin - I don't have a multimeter so can't check whether or not there's actually any power going to it.

Are there any photos I could send that might be useful?

rjmontgomery · 21st Jan 2021, 1:49 pm

Oh my god - success!! The motor wasn't broken - it's now turning again, albeit with a pretty unpleasant high-pitched "grinding" sound!

G6ONEDave · 21st Jan 2021, 3:01 pm

OK so now you need to lubricate the motor bearings with some thin oil, not graphite though, something like Singer sewing machine oil or 3in1 mineral oil should be OK. The grinding noise is due to dry bearings, remember that WD40 is not an actual lubricant as such.
Dave

rjmontgomery · 21st Jan 2021, 3:12 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by G6ONEDave

OK so now you need to lubricate the motor bearings with some thin oil, not graphite though, something like Singer sewing machine oil or 3in1 mineral oil should be OK. The grinding noise is due to dry bearings, remember that WD40 is not an actual lubricant as such.
Dave

Thanks Dave, this was next on my list!

Update: I've now fixed the wiring and it's all working! However, it does get me back where I started when I began this project: namely, that when I switch to MANUAL or START, the turntable starts to turns but then grinds to a halt - I have to to spin it by hand to get it to start spinning again, and then it continues fine.

I seem to remember from the original thread I followed that this is something to do with the "eccentric wheel" mechanism - would it simply be a case of taking this apart and lubricating this as well?

Station X · 21st Jan 2021, 3:24 pm

Stalling of auto-changer mechanisms is invariably down to dried up grease or slipping between the idler and turntable or motor pulley.

If it's happening when manual is selected this suggests slipping as the auto-changer will be disengaged.

rjmontgomery · 21st Jan 2021, 3:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Station X

Stalling of auto-changer mechanisms is invariably down to dried up grease or slipping between the idler and turntable or motor pulley.

If it's happening when manual is selected this suggests slipping as the auto-changer will be disengaged.

Thanks - this one runs using a jockey wheel. I remember people recommending carefully sanding the wheel to get more friction - I think I may just need a new jockey wheel!

Station X · 21st Jan 2021, 3:32 pm

Idler wheel and jockey wheel are different names for the same thing.

Clean the motor pulley and inner rim of the turntable with white spirit, being carefully to remove it afterwards. If that doesn't do the trick try sanding the idler wheel.

rjmontgomery · 21st Jan 2021, 7:13 pm

Hi all,

Sitting down and listening to my now (almost) fully working turntable!

I took apart the autochanger and cleaned it - it was pretty dirty and the effort it was having to make to work the mechanism was what was making it struggle. It's now *almost* perfect - it seems to stall every time at the stage when the vinyl should drop, and I have to push it on my hand to get it to continue. Any advice, other than just taking it apart and cleaning it more?

On the bulb front: the last one I bought was a 15W filament bulb - I just checked to see if it would work in my oven and it did, so maybe it's a wiring issue?

Station X · 21st Jan 2021, 8:26 pm

Stalling when the auto-changer comes into operation is a common problem. It takes a lot more power to operate the auto-changer mechanism than it does to merely spin a record.

Often it will be found that the auto changer will work at 78 RPM, but not at lower speeds, as there's a lot more energy stored in the turntable which acts as a flywheel.

I'm afraid the only cure is to dismantle the mechanism, clean off the old grease, relubricate and reassemble. Pay particular attention to any cam gear located under the turntable. BSR decks have these, I'm not sure about Garrards.

Michael Maurice · 22nd Jan 2021, 9:26 am

Garrards have these as well, they suffer from dried out grease, You need to take it off clean and relubricate it then refit it.

sparkymike · 22nd Jan 2021, 10:01 am

re.grinding noise from the motor, it sounds like the rotor has not been centralised properly in the gap, or have you cured that now ?
Mike.

rjmontgomery · 22nd Jan 2021, 10:33 am

This all makes sense - it looks like it's all the cam gear beneath which is the problem, it feels super rough to the touch. It improved a little after I did a cleaning job on it yesterday, but I think I need to properly remove and reassemble it.

The grinding noise did stop, thank you!

The only other job I have left once that's done is to *properly* solder on the wire that links the turntable to the speakers - I'm not very good at it, and they detached again yesterday after I'd played a few records.

Herald1360 · 22nd Jan 2021, 12:49 pm

Are you using "proper" flux cored leaded solder? It's somewhat easier to make a decent joint with than the modern RoHS compliant unleaded variety, especially the the cheaper type with no silver in the mix.

The original joints would have been made with leaded solder anyway and adding unleaded on top doesn't work brilliantly either.

If you reckon a foot or two of the "full fat" variety would help let me know......

rjmontgomery · 22nd Jan 2021, 2:51 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herald1360

Are you using "proper" flux cored leaded solder? It's somewhat easier to make a decent joint with than the modern RoHS compliant unleaded variety, especially the the cheaper type with no silver in the mix.

The original joints would have been made with leaded solder anyway and adding unleaded on top doesn't work brilliantly either.

If you reckon a foot or two of the "full fat" variety would help let me know......

Haha, thank you - this is so kind! Thankfully it looks like I did a half decent job on the wiring and sound-wise it now works pretty well

HOWEVER, all the careful cleaning and lubricating I did of the cam gear seems to have made it *worse*. Not only that, but I've clearly made a hash of mechanism which controls the tone arm too, and it now skips repeatedly as the needle gets closer to the centre of the record. It also now lands in the wrong place when the autochanger is running. Gaaahhh!!

I think the time has come for me to accept that I definitely don't know what I'm doing and that I'm out of my depth - I'm delighted that I've got it sort-of-working again, and once lockdown's over I think I'll get someone who actually knows what they're doing to come and get it fully operational. Thank you everyone for all the support and advice, it's been brilliant!

Does anyone know someone who might do a home visit to Crystal Palace SE19?

Station X · 22nd Jan 2021, 2:56 pm

You didn't by any chance grease or oil the trip pawl? This should be clean, but free of lubricant.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ead.php?t=8936

rjmontgomery · 22nd Jan 2021, 3:23 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Station X

You didn't by any chance grease or oil the trip pawl? This should be clean, but free of lubricant.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ead.php?t=8936

This has helped a little, but it's still quite erratic - sometimes it even seems like the turntable stops and starts to go backwards a little!

rjmontgomery · 22nd Jan 2021, 4:00 pm

Update: I've managed to fix the tone arm landing in the wrong place at the start of the record, but can't seem to do anything about the skipping towards the centre. I'm pretty sure that I've overly tightened something somewhere - it feels like once the arm reaches a certain point, there's some resistance against it continuing, hence why it keeps skipping back. I really don't want to take it apart again as soldering the wires has been such a nightmare for me, so I think I'll wait until someone can have a proper look at it!

rjmontgomery · 22nd Jan 2021, 7:22 pm

Further update: I couldn't help myself and have now fixed the skipping needle! The only issue now is this gear cam still being sluggish - that, and have the fact I've just discovered a washer left behind...

Would people recommend replacing the idler wheel to see if it improves performance?

21st Jan 2021, 12:16 pm	#21
G6ONEDave Octode Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Owston Ferry, North Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 1,701	Re: Repairing a Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe Radiogram - any advice useful! Not sure what the 'snap' noise was but if the motor photos were taken after it, then the motor appears to be intact. With the power off, try rotating the motor shaft by hand to see if it rotates freely. it's possible that the bottom motor bearing and or the top bearing have become off centre and are acting as a brake on the shaft. Also check that the rotating magnet has not parted company with the shaft going through it. If you have a multimeter of some sort, do an ohms test across the motor windings to check for continuity. I would have thought that unless you are Superman it's unlikely that the motor shaft has got bent or snapped. Dave

21st Jan 2021, 1:29 pm	#22
ms660 Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 13,454	Re: Repairing a Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe Radiogram - any advice useful! That looks like a 240 volt motor in the photo's with the unused Yellow tap for heater series connected valves. Lawrence.

21st Jan 2021, 1:32 pm	#23
rjmontgomery Triode Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: London, UK. Posts: 17	Re: Repairing a Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe Radiogram - any advice useful! Thank you, this is great! Took the motor apart and you're right - nothing has broken, the motor shaft's still intact and rotates freely. In fact, it was a little sticky but I've carefully added some WD40 and it now moves much more smoothly - I wouldn't be surprised if that was causing some of the issues I was having with turntable speed before it broke. Unfortunately nothing seems to be making the magnet spin - I don't have a multimeter so can't check whether or not there's actually any power going to it. Are there any photos I could send that might be useful?

21st Jan 2021, 1:49 pm	#24
rjmontgomery Triode Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: London, UK. Posts: 17	Re: Repairing a Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe Radiogram - any advice useful! Oh my god - success!! The motor wasn't broken - it's now turning again, albeit with a pretty unpleasant high-pitched "grinding" sound!

21st Jan 2021, 3:01 pm	#25
G6ONEDave Octode Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Owston Ferry, North Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 1,701	Re: Repairing a Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe Radiogram - any advice useful! OK so now you need to lubricate the motor bearings with some thin oil, not graphite though, something like Singer sewing machine oil or 3in1 mineral oil should be OK. The grinding noise is due to dry bearings, remember that WD40 is not an actual lubricant as such. Dave

21st Jan 2021, 3:24 pm	#27
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Repairing a Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe Radiogram - any advice useful! Stalling of auto-changer mechanisms is invariably down to dried up grease or slipping between the idler and turntable or motor pulley. If it's happening when manual is selected this suggests slipping as the auto-changer will be disengaged. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

21st Jan 2021, 3:32 pm	#29
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Repairing a Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe Radiogram - any advice useful! Idler wheel and jockey wheel are different names for the same thing. Clean the motor pulley and inner rim of the turntable with white spirit, being carefully to remove it afterwards. If that doesn't do the trick try sanding the idler wheel. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

21st Jan 2021, 7:13 pm	#30
rjmontgomery Triode Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: London, UK. Posts: 17	Re: Repairing a Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe Radiogram - any advice useful! Hi all, Sitting down and listening to my now (almost) fully working turntable! I took apart the autochanger and cleaned it - it was pretty dirty and the effort it was having to make to work the mechanism was what was making it struggle. It's now almost perfect - it seems to stall every time at the stage when the vinyl should drop, and I have to push it on my hand to get it to continue. Any advice, other than just taking it apart and cleaning it more? On the bulb front: the last one I bought was a 15W filament bulb - I just checked to see if it would work in my oven and it did, so maybe it's a wiring issue?

21st Jan 2021, 8:26 pm	#31
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Repairing a Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe Radiogram - any advice useful! Stalling when the auto-changer comes into operation is a common problem. It takes a lot more power to operate the auto-changer mechanism than it does to merely spin a record. Often it will be found that the auto changer will work at 78 RPM, but not at lower speeds, as there's a lot more energy stored in the turntable which acts as a flywheel. I'm afraid the only cure is to dismantle the mechanism, clean off the old grease, relubricate and reassemble. Pay particular attention to any cam gear located under the turntable. BSR decks have these, I'm not sure about Garrards. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

22nd Jan 2021, 9:26 am	#32
Michael Maurice Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wembley, Middlesex Posts: 7,224	Re: Repairing a Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe Radiogram - any advice useful! Garrards have these as well, they suffer from dried out grease, You need to take it off clean and relubricate it then refit it. __________________ Forum Moderator http://www.michaelmauricerepairs.co.uk/

22nd Jan 2021, 10:01 am	#33
sparkymike Octode Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Colchester, Essex, UK. Posts: 1,076	Re: Repairing a Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe Radiogram - any advice useful! re.grinding noise from the motor, it sounds like the rotor has not been centralised properly in the gap, or have you cured that now ? Mike.

22nd Jan 2021, 10:33 am	#34
rjmontgomery Triode Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: London, UK. Posts: 17	Re: Repairing a Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe Radiogram - any advice useful! This all makes sense - it looks like it's all the cam gear beneath which is the problem, it feels super rough to the touch. It improved a little after I did a cleaning job on it yesterday, but I think I need to properly remove and reassemble it. The grinding noise did stop, thank you! The only other job I have left once that's done is to properly solder on the wire that links the turntable to the speakers - I'm not very good at it, and they detached again yesterday after I'd played a few records.

22nd Jan 2021, 12:49 pm	#35
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: Repairing a Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe Radiogram - any advice useful! Are you using "proper" flux cored leaded solder? It's somewhat easier to make a decent joint with than the modern RoHS compliant unleaded variety, especially the the cheaper type with no silver in the mix. The original joints would have been made with leaded solder anyway and adding unleaded on top doesn't work brilliantly either. If you reckon a foot or two of the "full fat" variety would help let me know...... __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

22nd Jan 2021, 2:56 pm	#37
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Repairing a Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe Radiogram - any advice useful! You didn't by any chance grease or oil the trip pawl? This should be clean, but free of lubricant. https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ead.php?t=8936 __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

22nd Jan 2021, 4:00 pm	#39
rjmontgomery Triode Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: London, UK. Posts: 17	Re: Repairing a Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe Radiogram - any advice useful! Update: I've managed to fix the tone arm landing in the wrong place at the start of the record, but can't seem to do anything about the skipping towards the centre. I'm pretty sure that I've overly tightened something somewhere - it feels like once the arm reaches a certain point, there's some resistance against it continuing, hence why it keeps skipping back. I really don't want to take it apart again as soldering the wires has been such a nightmare for me, so I think I'll wait until someone can have a proper look at it!

22nd Jan 2021, 7:22 pm	#40
rjmontgomery Triode Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: London, UK. Posts: 17	Re: Repairing a Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe Radiogram - any advice useful! Further update: I couldn't help myself and have now fixed the skipping needle! The only issue now is this gear cam still being sluggish - that, and have the fact I've just discovered a washer left behind... Would people recommend replacing the idler wheel to see if it improves performance?