Cassette only playing mono - new pads, mw XLII 90, clean deck - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

lovechild · 11th May 2020, 8:29 pm

I've tried every variation of words to find someone else with this problem so I apologize in advance if the question is redundant.

Got a new tape from a bandcamp artist I like and it played great in my Soundrider w301. I got to the end of the tape the ribbon was caught up in the deck when I opened it. Was the only tape ever to do this (any tips to prevent if common, :). I believe I haphazardly got the ribbon free because I noticed a couple small creases and looked like cracks (not tears) in the beginning of the ribbon.

For the first 5 or so seconds, it plays fine but thereafter it "wobbles" then switches over to just the left channel. Mechanically, it plays normally, but now has a degraded sound and only plays mono throughout the entire EP. Both sides, at all times. I have noticed that it very briefly pops the right channel (as if hitting a bump) on if that helps. I double checked for folds , tears and anything else.. but all I can find is a 2inch mini crease (very loose crease) and an even smaller portion looks slightly damaged (cracked). All in the same location - just at the beginning of the cassette.

Pads are great - gently touching the tape evenly and secured. The deck is very very clean. I thought it was brand new - decks are pristine and very clean as well as the heads. All other tapes, new and old, play perfectly on both AB decks. No physical damage to the actual cart.. I'm perplexed and even worse is that I can't find answers due to my lack of understanding (phrasing, troubleshooting experience).

Any and all advice is much appreciated. Any tips are also welcome. Old head but I gotta tech gap between being a kid and tearing crap up to fix it and now being an adult and trying to learn it the right way lol. Thanks in advance.

TIMTAPE · 12th May 2020, 4:56 am

The label on the cassette looks to be an imitation of a Maxell cassette label. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a rubbish cassette but it's not a good sign!

It may also be a very thin (and so long play) tape. Very thin tapes can test even the best cassette mechanism and how well it's been cleaned and maintained.

That damage looks relatively light. I've just had to salvage someone's very thin C120 cassette tape (wedding ceremony and speeches from 1969) which was badly chewed. Photo attached of cassette still in machine. One tape section was very tightly wrapped around the capstan shaft. The other section wrapped around the pinch roller. The entire cassette was jammed inside the machine. What a mess! But perhaps 99% of the recording was eventually salvaged.

Often damage to a cassette tape occurs, or starts, just past the plastic leader and into the tape, as yours has with that crease in the photo. The plastic leader is far more thick and rigid than the actual tape and so resists damage.

Often owners clean the tape head (to get a nice clear sound) but fail to clean the capstan shaft and pinch roller. After many tape plays shaft and roller can become sticky with tape residue and then tapes can stick to them, causing a real mess. Attached "before and after cleaning" pictures of the tape path of the machine which damaged the C120 wedding tape.

Also reel tensions can go out of spec leading to tape damage.

To make matters worse, many later model cassette decks weren't designed for easy tape path cleaning. Over the years I've had to make custom modified cassettes which fool these machine into thinking a cassette is inserted. I can now press "play" and the pinch roller engages and rotates, making cleaning it a lot easier. But still not an easy clean.

A one-off valuable recording, the only copy in existence, (which fortunately yours isn't apparently) can survive in perfect condition for many decades, and then with one play it's permanently damaged. Just at the moment when (supposedly) it's being digitally preserved forever... Often in playing vulnerable tapes we need to have everything going in our favour or permanent tape damage could be just around the corner.

BRASSBITS · 12th May 2020, 9:13 am

every maxell udxl11 tape I have seen has had a black body

stacman · 12th May 2020, 9:59 am

Lad on YouTube, Tony of cassette comeback, has done a video on a fake maxell cassette called a ‘maxwell’, actually wasn’t a bad tape which surprised him.

jamesperrett · 12th May 2020, 4:34 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIMTAPE

The label on the cassette looks to be an imitation of a Maxell cassette label. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a rubbish cassette but it's not a good sign!

This is a commercial release available on Bandcamp from a label with quite a few releases in their catalogue.

https://firstclasscollective.bandcam...lbum/kriminell

It looks like the label deliberately imitate Maxell's artwork but the tape is probably just standard bulk stock.

To me the pressure pad looks off centre but maybe that's the camera angle.

TIMTAPE · 12th May 2020, 5:17 pm

My guess is the cassette player is at least a part player in the tape damage. It may not have damaged other cassettes so far but it may have been close to it. The various factors all add up. It only needs one extra factor and the tape starts to skew off centre at the capstan shaft.

GeoffB17 · 12th May 2020, 6:52 pm

I cannot tell from the pics, but I suspect that the tape path is not 100%.

I suggest you compare this tape VERY closely with another similar (even better if the same) and make sure that the pressure pad is seated correctly, it hooks into the assembly at each side) and that the tape goes through dead straight. When checking the tape, wind manually past the slightly bent bit. Might also be a help to unscrew the cassette to chek internally, may need to do this if the tape gas got moved from the correct path, there may be some pillars that the tape has got behind.

The damage to the tape should smooth out after a few playings. I've had FAR worse that have ended up fine.

Geoff

ben · 13th May 2020, 11:13 pm

What has likely happened is that the tape is skewing. Thin tape, plus a shell with very little friction (as those industrial blanks use) will only play well on a near perfect condition deck.

I notice you are using a late 80s Sony portable. Sony pinch rollers of the 90s tend to harden and cause this. The take up torque may also be a bit high, so the spool tries to pull the tape through the capstan/pinch roller causing crinkling, drop outs and muffled audio.

You can test this theory by winding 10 mins in from the start, then flipping over to side B. If the end of side B plays okay, then it's a hardened pinch or excessive take up torque problem.

11th May 2020, 8:29 pm	#1
lovechild Diode Join Date: May 2020 Location: Houston, Texas, USA. Posts: 1	Cassette only playing mono - new pads, mw XLII 90, clean deck I've tried every variation of words to find someone else with this problem so I apologize in advance if the question is redundant. Got a new tape from a bandcamp artist I like and it played great in my Soundrider w301. I got to the end of the tape the ribbon was caught up in the deck when I opened it. Was the only tape ever to do this (any tips to prevent if common, :). I believe I haphazardly got the ribbon free because I noticed a couple small creases and looked like cracks (not tears) in the beginning of the ribbon. For the first 5 or so seconds, it plays fine but thereafter it "wobbles" then switches over to just the left channel. Mechanically, it plays normally, but now has a degraded sound and only plays mono throughout the entire EP. Both sides, at all times. I have noticed that it very briefly pops the right channel (as if hitting a bump) on if that helps. I double checked for folds , tears and anything else.. but all I can find is a 2inch mini crease (very loose crease) and an even smaller portion looks slightly damaged (cracked). All in the same location - just at the beginning of the cassette. Pads are great - gently touching the tape evenly and secured. The deck is very very clean. I thought it was brand new - decks are pristine and very clean as well as the heads. All other tapes, new and old, play perfectly on both AB decks. No physical damage to the actual cart.. I'm perplexed and even worse is that I can't find answers due to my lack of understanding (phrasing, troubleshooting experience). Any and all advice is much appreciated. Any tips are also welcome. Old head but I gotta tech gap between being a kid and tearing crap up to fix it and now being an adult and trying to learn it the right way lol. Thanks in advance. Attached Thumbnails

12th May 2020, 4:56 am	#2
TIMTAPE Octode Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 1,971	Re: Cassette only playing mono - new pads, mw XLII 90, clean deck The label on the cassette looks to be an imitation of a Maxell cassette label. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a rubbish cassette but it's not a good sign! It may also be a very thin (and so long play) tape. Very thin tapes can test even the best cassette mechanism and how well it's been cleaned and maintained. That damage looks relatively light. I've just had to salvage someone's very thin C120 cassette tape (wedding ceremony and speeches from 1969) which was badly chewed. Photo attached of cassette still in machine. One tape section was very tightly wrapped around the capstan shaft. The other section wrapped around the pinch roller. The entire cassette was jammed inside the machine. What a mess! But perhaps 99% of the recording was eventually salvaged. Often damage to a cassette tape occurs, or starts, just past the plastic leader and into the tape, as yours has with that crease in the photo. The plastic leader is far more thick and rigid than the actual tape and so resists damage. Often owners clean the tape head (to get a nice clear sound) but fail to clean the capstan shaft and pinch roller. After many tape plays shaft and roller can become sticky with tape residue and then tapes can stick to them, causing a real mess. Attached "before and after cleaning" pictures of the tape path of the machine which damaged the C120 wedding tape. Also reel tensions can go out of spec leading to tape damage. To make matters worse, many later model cassette decks weren't designed for easy tape path cleaning. Over the years I've had to make custom modified cassettes which fool these machine into thinking a cassette is inserted. I can now press "play" and the pinch roller engages and rotates, making cleaning it a lot easier. But still not an easy clean. A one-off valuable recording, the only copy in existence, (which fortunately yours isn't apparently) can survive in perfect condition for many decades, and then with one play it's permanently damaged. Just at the moment when (supposedly) it's being digitally preserved forever... Often in playing vulnerable tapes we need to have everything going in our favour or permanent tape damage could be just around the corner. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by TIMTAPE; 12th May 2020 at 5:11 am.

12th May 2020, 9:13 am	#3
BRASSBITS Hexode Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 364	Re: Cassette only playing mono - new pads, mw XLII 90, clean deck every maxell udxl11 tape I have seen has had a black body

12th May 2020, 9:59 am	#4
stacman Hexode Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 278	Re: Cassette only playing mono - new pads, mw XLII 90, clean deck Lad on YouTube, Tony of cassette comeback, has done a video on a fake maxell cassette called a ‘maxwell’, actually wasn’t a bad tape which surprised him.

12th May 2020, 5:17 pm	#6
TIMTAPE Octode Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 1,971	Re: Cassette only playing mono - new pads, mw XLII 90, clean deck My guess is the cassette player is at least a part player in the tape damage. It may not have damaged other cassettes so far but it may have been close to it. The various factors all add up. It only needs one extra factor and the tape starts to skew off centre at the capstan shaft.

12th May 2020, 6:52 pm	#7
GeoffB17 Tetrode Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Guisborough, North Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 80	Re: Cassette only playing mono - new pads, mw XLII 90, clean deck I cannot tell from the pics, but I suspect that the tape path is not 100%. I suggest you compare this tape VERY closely with another similar (even better if the same) and make sure that the pressure pad is seated correctly, it hooks into the assembly at each side) and that the tape goes through dead straight. When checking the tape, wind manually past the slightly bent bit. Might also be a help to unscrew the cassette to chek internally, may need to do this if the tape gas got moved from the correct path, there may be some pillars that the tape has got behind. The damage to the tape should smooth out after a few playings. I've had FAR worse that have ended up fine. Geoff

13th May 2020, 11:13 pm	#8
ben Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK Posts: 7,498	Re: Cassette only playing mono - new pads, mw XLII 90, clean deck What has likely happened is that the tape is skewing. Thin tape, plus a shell with very little friction (as those industrial blanks use) will only play well on a near perfect condition deck. I notice you are using a late 80s Sony portable. Sony pinch rollers of the 90s tend to harden and cause this. The take up torque may also be a bit high, so the spool tries to pull the tape through the capstan/pinch roller causing crinkling, drop outs and muffled audio. You can test this theory by winding 10 mins in from the start, then flipping over to side B. If the end of side B plays okay, then it's a hardened pinch or excessive take up torque problem. __________________ Regards, Ben.