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Old 19th May 2017, 12:47 pm   #1
indigo.girl
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Default Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

Hi everyone,
The tuner scale on my Philips radiogram (F5G01A) is partially broken. The red and gold scale is printed on the back and it looks like someones had a go at mending in the past. All the pieces are there.

Any good ideas on how to tackle it? The shards have dirt in between them so they cracks look worse. Can I clean them up and re-stick them better with some kind of invisible glue? Can I reproduce the scale and put behind a piece of perspex? How have others tackles problems like this and how have you got on?

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Its a gorgeous looking radiogram btw

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Old 19th May 2017, 12:56 pm   #2
Boater Sam
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

You can't print white or any metallic detail.
You can print an acceptable copy on waterslide film, in mirror image, and slick it onto the inside of acrylic sheet.
Drilling large holes in glass is not simple.
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Old 19th May 2017, 12:57 pm   #3
paulsherwin
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

The best approach is to scan the tuning scale, clean it up with photo editing software, and print it out onto film. Sometimes you can get by with a domestic inkjet printer, but not all colours will print (white is a particular problem) so you may need to get it printed by a specialist printshop. You may need to modify some of the colours so that they will print well.

Any glass merchant will cut you a piece of picture glass to the right size, and they should be able to cut out the holes too. Alternatively you can cut Perspex yourself.
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Old 19th May 2017, 1:24 pm   #4
frankmcvey
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

Hi, IG,

You might talk to stuboy57. He's a signwriter to trade and I've seen some examples of his stunning artwork wrt reproduction control panels etc.

Cheers,

Frank
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Old 19th May 2017, 2:27 pm   #5
Grubhead
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

The problem I see is that it's mostly gold lettering. Which most printers struggle with. Commercial printers actually use gold leaf foil for printing with, which is heated and applied to item they one to print on.
If you want to get it really good I would chat with the signwriter chap.
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Old 19th May 2017, 4:50 pm   #6
crackle
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

If it is only 2 colours (red and gold) and clear, then you can make the water slide transfer with just the red, leaving the gold and clear windows clear (white). Then mask of the clear windows and then spray gold paint over the rest.

Worth a try

Mike
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Old 19th May 2017, 5:33 pm   #7
stuboy57
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmcvey View Post
You might talk to stuboy57. He's a signwriter to trade and I've seen some examples of his stunning artwork wrt reproduction control panels etc.
I could probably sort it for you, reverse print onto perspex, the gold looks more like cream though......do you fancy sending the panel to me to reproduce, it looks doable
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Old 19th May 2017, 6:22 pm   #8
JacKam_
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

Hi Indigo,

Two options I am thinking of :
- Search internet, someone may have it.

- Make it yourself, as Paulsherwin said. White parts can be easily sprayed. The whole process may take you about 40 hours with picture editing s/w. It is ok, my oldest project lasts for 4 years ...

Best regards,

Jacek
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Old 19th May 2017, 6:32 pm   #9
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
The best approach is to scan the tuning scale, clean it up with photo editing software, and print it out onto film. Sometimes you can get by with a domestic inkjet printer, but not all colours will print (white is a particular problem) so you may need to get it printed by a specialist printshop. You may need to modify some of the colours so that they will print well.

Any glass merchant will cut you a piece of picture glass to the right size, and they should be able to cut out the holes too. Alternatively you can cut Perspex yourself.
Yeah I think Paul's right there. Otherwise I'd say use Perspex by choice as getting a new glass with holes drilled is not going to be cheap and you won't tell the difference.
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Old 19th May 2017, 6:35 pm   #10
David G4EBT
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

From my experience, water-slide transfers are a non-runner in this instance. They only work when applied to a solid painted panel - for example some Roberts sets and the Wartime Civilian Receiver. Hopeless when applied to either the front or reverse of a clear glass/acrylic panel. The resultant transfer when applied is far too 'wishy washy'. I've attached a pic of two types of DAC90A dials, both in reverse for application to the rear of the glass, and normal for application to the front of the glass, sandwiched between two thin sheets of clear glass. The transfers were made from excellent cleaned up scans.

The first picture shows an A4 sheet of four transfers, still on the (white) backing paper. As can be seen, they look fine, but were quite useless when slid off the backing sheet and applied to glass. You can get waterslide transfers which are solid white until printed in colour, and that does enable white lettering to be printed simply by 'inverting' black to white, but of course most dials including the DAC90A and the FG501A in question, have 'windows' through which the dial light illumination shows. If those windows are simple 'slots' the white area of a waterslide transfer can be cut out with a sharp craft knife, but as often as not, (as is so in the DAC90A, the FG501A and many other sets), there is text or other makings such as dots, so a white water-slide transfer is a non-runner.

As will be seen on the second picture - again a DAC90A dial but different from the first one - the 'gold' looks quite realistic, and on the third picture, the colours look solid and the dark areas look suitably opaque. Again, when I applied the transfers onto glass and placed the glass on white paper, all of those the dials looked perfect. However, when they were held up to the light, they were quite hopeless.

A dial such as the 'Little Maestro T105' in the fourth pic would be an excellent candidate because the clear area has no text or markings and the image could be reverse printed on white rather than transparent paper, applied to the rear of the glass as was the original, then the clear aperture could be cut out with a craft knife.

Some dials simply cannot be reproduced other than by screen printing. The last pic below is of a Murphy U198. Apart from the fact that the lettering is white and gold, the lettering is perfectly opaque and that's because the 'ink' used in screen printing is more like paint, and is much thicker in depth as compared to that produced by an ink jet printer. (The dark blue in the picture isn't on the dial - which apart from the lettering is clear glass - it's a solid blue painted panel behind the cursor).

I know that some people - including forum members - have created excellent acrylic dials for sets such as circular Ekcos, but the only person I know who has successfully recreated glass dials is Gary Tempest, which featured in The Bulletin in recent years. He re-created the artwork, had the glass cut and the edges 'arrissed' (ground) by a glass company, and had the dials professionally screen printed. But that was for rare sets of such a value that warranted the expense.

Though the size of the FG501A dial isn't mentioned, looking at the pic of the gram, the dial certainly looks to be longer than A4 size, so just to scan and clean up the image would need an A3 scanner.

All of this might sound rather depressing and negative, and not at all helpful in finding a solution, but it's based on considerable experimentation with water-slide transfers for dials and logos. Personally, I think you've little option than to live with it unless anyone comes up with a good dial from a donor set, which seems highly unlikely. I think if you try to dismantle the dial and re-glue it more neatly, you'll risk further damage with no improvement.

Maybe someone will pop up with the necessary expertise who won't simply make speculative untried suggestions, but can actually create a dial? If so, that would be great, but short of involving a professional screen printer, which would be prohibitively costly, it's beyond my wit as to how that could be done on a DIY basis.

Happy to be proved wrong - 'Stuboy57' looks up for it!

Good luck in your quest.
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Old 19th May 2017, 7:28 pm   #11
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

I have successfully used the special Loctite Glass Bond to mend broken glass items (a 1930's lamp shade and some broken wine glasses, all of sentimental value) . The lamp shade was multicoloured swirls anyway, so the joins do not show, but the joins in the wine glass are visible. The problem is that to make a joint invisible, the refractive index of the bonding medium must be the same as the glass. I believe that the stuff used professionally for repairing digs in car windscreens is matched to the glass and so is virtually invisible. Loctite Glass Bond is cured by UV light and I use "black light" CFL lamps (the type that makes your shirt glow in the dark) to accelerate bonding, as they do not incorporate any UV filtering. Loctite is relatively viscous and is not really suitable for fixing cracks as it will not seep in, but is fine where the pieces are completely detached so that you can apply it to the surfaces to be bonded. Degrease with Meths or IPA before applying the Loctite.
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Old 19th May 2017, 10:26 pm   #12
Lloyd 1985
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

They have changed the Loctite glass bond recently to 'super glue glass', which doesn't need UV to cure it. I've tried it on a dial from a GEC radio, while it has indeed stuck it back together, the breaks are still visible. It also sets to a rubbery texture, not sure if that's a good thing or not!

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Old 19th May 2017, 11:04 pm   #13
paulsherwin
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

Regarding David's comments about the need for an A3 scanner, you can do the scan in two passes on an A4 scanner and glue the scans together in software, though an A3 scanner will certainly make the job easier.
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Old 19th May 2017, 11:15 pm   #14
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

Thanks for the Loctite update: I bought several tubes more than 5 years ago, and still have a couple unopened. The old stuff sets hard like Araldite Precision.
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Old 20th May 2017, 6:27 am   #15
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

The windscreen stuff is available to buy, and makes near-invisible repairs in its intended appliction. I don't know how well it would work here, as it's essentially a filler rather than an adhesive.
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Old 20th May 2017, 3:53 pm   #16
ColinTheAmpMan1
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

If I am remembering the little that I learnt relating to microscopy, the cover-glass could be "glued" to the slide using a substance called "Canada Balsam". This stuff had the same refractive index as glass and was also used to "glue" lens components together. It seems to be available from scientific suppliers and on the auction site.
I have never used it to fix broken glass, but I would be interested to know if it works. It can't be worse than super-glue, surely?
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Old 20th May 2017, 5:17 pm   #17
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

I have no idea how hard they are to obtain, but what about the adhesives used to stick lens elements together (e.g. in a camera lens). Old lenses were, indeed, assembled with Canada Balsam, but I think more modern adhesives are used now.
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Old 26th May 2017, 9:18 pm   #18
indigo.girl
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuboy57 View Post
I could probably sort it for you, reverse print onto perspex, the gold looks more like cream though......do you fancy sending the panel to me to reproduce, it looks doable
Have sent it off to Stuart to do his magic - will update thread when its done
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Old 27th May 2017, 5:51 pm   #19
crackle
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

Water slide can be used to create good dials, they are obviously not so good as screen printed dials, it does depend on the type and content of the dial.
This is a dial I made for a GEC BC544L, it was printed with an inkjet printer onto water slide, attached to the rear of a new glass panel, then masked so that the background could be sprayed an off white colour..

The first image is the original dial, the second is the dial I made.

Mike
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Old 27th May 2017, 8:27 pm   #20
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Default Re: Any ideas how to mend glass tuner scale?

Mike,
Looks better than original one. You added spacing where necessary, the only thing I would change is "1000-2000" centering.
Let me guess - about 20 hours with Gimp ?
Best regards,
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