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Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details.

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Old 7th Jun 2019, 12:16 am   #141
rambo1152
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Default Re: Any other plug collectors out there?

My daughter brought something that she had bought (sort of) for my grandkids (2&5)

I meant to photograph it but I forgot, so a description will have to suffice.

It was a small, child-size hair dryer with cartoon stickers. (I kid you not).

The plug was unremarkable, but the manufacturer had made two nods to safety.

One was a label stuck on the flex saying "This is not a toy", and the other was what I will call a piece of "mains plug apparel". It was a custom-made round plastic box (like a Tupperware box) into which you dropped the plug then screwed on the lid which had a mechanism the same as a childproof tablet bottle. There was a small slot that allowed the flex to exit the container.

Actually its small size makes it a good travel hairdryer, which I think was the main reason it was bought.
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Old 7th Jun 2019, 12:44 pm   #142
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Default Re: Any other plug collectors out there?

I wonder who originally wired the plug pictured in post #140?

I know it's very wrong, and there's no way live would disconnect first if the cable was tugged out, but in a weird way it's quite 'artistic'.

I find those two elegant loops quite pleasing to look at!

Yes, I know I'm a bit odd.....
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Old 7th Jun 2019, 12:51 pm   #143
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Default Re: Any other plug collectors out there?

It is a bit curious and I have long forgotten what it was cut off.
All the same there is plenty of wire so that it can easily be seen if the cord grip comes loose
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Old 7th Jun 2019, 1:10 pm   #144
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Default Re: Any other plug collectors out there?

RS didn't seem to be fussy about who supplied their plugs, the one I have with their logo mouded into the lid looks like a Marbo.
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Old 7th Jun 2019, 6:29 pm   #145
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Default Re: Any other plug collectors out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refugee View Post
It is a bit curious and I have long forgotten what it was cut off.
All the same there is plenty of wire so that it can easily be seen if the cord grip comes loose
In the US, it's a code violation to fit a three pronged plug on a two cored flex. It might give the user the idea that the item is earthed.
I'm well aware the your earth prong opens the shutters. I see on one of the pictures, that the earth prong is made of some non-conducting material.
The US is starting to use a form of shuttered receptacle called a tamper resistant type. The flat blade plug has to be inserted carefully to open both shutters.
Installed in areas accessible to small children.
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Old 7th Jun 2019, 8:08 pm   #146
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Default Re: Any other plug collectors out there?

The ring-pull thingies on that Legrand were sold by Betterware or Kleenezee, that sort of thing, self adhesive. I did wonder how good the glue was!

My mother always had strong opinions on what constituted a good plug, based on her ability to pull it out of the socket with arthritic fingers. There's one..maybe Contactum, that's a challenge for anyone. Our old Bill wall sockets certainly grabbed the pins good and hard and it was common as a child to see my mother sweating and wiggling a plug in all directions trying to extract it.
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Old 7th Jun 2019, 11:56 pm   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usradcoll1 View Post
In the US, it's a code violation to fit a three pronged plug on a two cored flex. It might give the user the idea that the item is earthed.
I'm well aware the your earth prong opens the shutters. I see on one of the pictures, that the earth prong is made of some non-conducting material.
The US is starting to use a form of shuttered receptacle called a tamper resistant type. The flat blade plug has to be inserted carefully to open both shutters.
Installed in areas accessible to small children.
In the UK setup 2-pin plugs will not go into 3-pin sockets.
If something is double insulated such as a wall wart then the earth pin is only needed to open the shutters and can be plastic.
In the US sockets can be two or three pin so it would be stupid to fit a three pin plug to a two core cable as it would restrict where unit could be used.
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Old 8th Jun 2019, 11:48 am   #148
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Default Re: Any other plug collectors out there?

McMurdo: I have tried my hardest to pull the hook off that plug and cannot move it at all. Whoever made them used a very strong sticky pad indeed.

Refugee; I rather like your idea of a cord on a scope trolley. I will try that out on my own scope cart.

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Old 8th Jun 2019, 4:36 pm   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Refugee View Post
In the UK setup 2-pin plugs will not go into 3-pin sockets.
If something is double insulated such as a wall wart then the earth pin is only needed to open the shutters and can be plastic.
In the US sockets can be two or three pin so it would be stupid to fit a three pin plug to a two core cable as it would restrict where unit could be used.
The 1964 National Electrical Code required all new installations, residential, commercial and industrial to be earthed three prong receptacles for 120 volt single phase loads.
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Old 8th Jun 2019, 6:39 pm   #150
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Default Re: Any other plug collectors out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancs Lad View Post
I wonder who originally wired the plug pictured in post #140?[
I've always wired plugs with equal-lengths to the terminals.

So if the cord-grip fails the resultant tension is then equally-distributed between the 2 or 3 conductors/terminals - reducing the ongoing risk of any conductor being partially-pulled from its terminal and causing continuity-failure (which is distinctly annoying when you have an uptime contract to comply with) or any sort of arc/meltdown.

Having had a few thousand bits of kit annually-inspected for PAT-compliance reasons over a couple of decades, I honestly don't recall cord-grip-failure being a reporting issue!
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Old 8th Jun 2019, 9:59 pm   #151
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Default Re: Any other plug collectors out there?

Late last year I paid all of 2 for a Roberts R24 radio at a local car-boot-sale. It came with a "figure-of-8" mains-lead with a Legrand slimline 13A plug on the end - which had a sort-of-PAT-test sticker on it.

I've happily disregarded the "do not use after Jan 1999" admonition, and it's been working just fine.

Where was the '0973' area-code in the 1990s??
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Old 8th Jun 2019, 10:21 pm   #152
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Default Re: Any other plug collectors out there?

0973 was used by the Orange mobile phone network (now part of EE). The code was changed to 07973 when all mobile phone numbers were required to start with 07.
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Old 8th Jun 2019, 11:23 pm   #153
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Default Re: Any other plug collectors out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancs Lad View Post
I wonder who originally wired the plug pictured in post #140?[
I've always wired plugs with equal-lengths to the terminals.

So if the cord-grip fails the resultant tension is then equally-distributed between the 2 or 3 conductors/terminals - reducing the ongoing risk of any conductor being partially-pulled from its terminal and causing continuity-failure (which is distinctly annoying when you have an uptime contract to comply with) or any sort of arc/meltdown.

Having had a few thousand bits of kit annually-inspected for PAT-compliance reasons over a couple of decades, I honestly don't recall cord-grip-failure being a reporting issue!

Surely equal lengths to the terminals only works if the terminals are laid out for equal length wires.



Normal best practice is to cut the wires to such lengths that the line and neutral wires follow paths with equal amounts of "slack" and the earth wire has additional "slack" so that in the event of a cable pullout the earth lets go last.
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Old 8th Jun 2019, 11:40 pm   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Refugee View Post

In the UK setup 2-pin plugs will not go into 3-pin sockets.
With perhaps one exception. I've just made a little video!

https://youtu.be/JSLuhwfDeXE
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 1:33 am   #155
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Default Re: Any other plug collectors out there?

MK patented both types in the mid-1970's. From memory, the patent for the earlier type mentioned its suitability for 2pin sockets as well as the UK's 13A socket. The patent for the later type mentioned the fact that , with their original design, a Europlug would operate the shutters of a UK 13A socket. Their new invention provided the shutters with recesses specifically designed to engage the pins of a Europlug to prevent insertion. As MK's patents expired many years ago, anyone is free to use their designs of shutter but I haven't noticed any 13A sockets other than MK with them.

Last edited by emeritus; 9th Jun 2019 at 1:41 am.
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 12:36 pm   #156
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Default Re: Any other plug collectors out there?

By coincidence I am currently embroiled in a discussion in the comments of John Ward's latest YouTube blog.
Someone has stated that one of MK's socket designs required all three pins to be inserted simultaneously, can anyone comment on this because I've never seen such a beast.
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 12:59 pm   #157
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Default Re: Any other plug collectors out there?

Surely it's the 1960s version, isn't it?

The one with the four fixing screws (twin socket) two at the top, two at the bottom.

Also the smaller oblong-ish surface mount socket had earth pin operated shutters too.

Not sure about the current 'Logic' range (the ones with the tapered front plate)
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 3:33 pm   #158
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Default Re: Any other plug collectors out there?

The current Logic plus require all 3 pins to be inserted together to open the shutters, ypu can't just use a screwdriver in the earth hole to uncover the L + N holes to insert your bared flex. I have some very old sockets here, round and square pin and almost all of them have shutters of one sort or another.

The most unusual is a Crabtree with an external shutter, the plug pins are used as a key to twist the shutter open.
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 4:22 pm   #159
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Default Re: Any other plug collectors out there?

Earlier on someone mentioned the electra branded slimline plugs I remember these because when the housing estate where I lived in 1980 got rewired the then southern electricity board supplied hundreds if these to family's on the estate so that we wouldn't all have to buy plugs for the 13 amp sockets our houses now had. I remember the old gentleman next door had a 2 ring cooker that they fitted one of these plugs on and because the flex was so heavy the top of the plug couldn't be refitted properly even by SEB engineers
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 6:33 pm   #160
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I had a quick look on the German Patent Office patent database (DEPATISNET) for MK sockets (The UK patent office is down for maintenance this weekend, and DEPATISNET has an english-language interface option).

Results summarised below.

As well as the two types mentioned above,there was a separate patent covering specific use in a 2 pin socket.

re #156, there are also three MK patents relating to arrangements requiring the simultaneous insertion of all three pins. I don't know if any of these latter designs ever made it into production. I have certainly never seen any. Perhaps they did make a trail run of some for evaluation.

The links take you to page 1 of PDF files. To view an entire pdf, click on the button at top right marked "Volldokument laden".

===============================================

GB 1438938 13A socket with shutter operated by 2 pins

https://depatisnet.dpma.de/DepatisNe...B000001438938A

GB 1460001 2 pin socket shutter operated by 2 pins

https://depatisnet.dpma.de/DepatisNe...B000001460001A

GB 1547989 Europlug-defeating 13A socket

https://depatisnet.dpma.de/DepatisNe...B000001547989A

==============================================

13A sockets with shutters requiring all three pins to open:

GB2068651

https://depatisnet.dpma.de/DepatisNe...B000002068651A

GB2260863

https://depatisnet.dpma.de/DepatisNe...B000002260863A

GB2261120

https://depatisnet.dpma.de/DepatisNe...B000002261120A

Last edited by emeritus; 9th Jun 2019 at 6:47 pm. Reason: Typo correction
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