The Ultimate vintage vinyl set up ?

[sp10mk11]

Mally

I have nothing to contribute here and I concur with the others about equipment, the point I disagree on is moving coil cartdidges sounding bright, to me they sound far more transparent in the upper mid and treble than any moving magnet I have owned.

Don't rush most of us have systems that we have slowly built up over the years until we reach a level we are happy with, so give yourself time and I personally would not take modern reviews to seriously they are too full of superlatives, in some ways I think the older style objective reviews are a better way, I mean who would have thought that a rattley old garrard turntable or technics sp10 studio deck would be become an audiophile icon.................

Also I have never heard of a Linn speaker from that time period that was an easy load for any amplifier let alone a valve amp

Good luck
Gary

[G6Tanuki]

My #1 consideration would be "what will you be listening to on it?"

The optimum setup for listening to baroque chamber-music will be rather different to what you want for listening to The Who or Pink Floyd at gig-style decibel levels.

Old British turntables are a taste I've never acquired: a mid/late-1980s Technics would be my #1 choice if you want to use it rather than just look at it.
Amplifiers: for ridiculously-low amounts of money you can get some brilliant 'top-end' Japanese gear from the 70s by keeping an eye on pawnshops, house-clearance places, and sometimes even charity-shops. Panasonic, Sansui, Toshiba, Kenwood, Fisher are the sort brands to look for. Some of these amps cost the equivalent of a month or so's salary back in the days they were produced - and even if you set aside a bit of money for a refurb (maybe change a few of the old dried-out electrolytics? Don't go silly though - Farnell/CPC will sell you perfectly-adequate components) and you could have a great-sounding 100-watt-plus-per-channel amp for under £1 per Watt.

[john.north]

Hello mally56,
I have a Connoisseur BD1 belt drive deck from the late 70s fitted with a SME3009 mk11 arm and either a Shure v15 or Ortofon cartridge. At present they are fed into a TEAC integrated amp soon to be replaced by a valve amp of some description. The speakers are Telefunken, model number unknown in cabinets that weigh a ton. The main speakers are 12 inch diameter and are the only ones I have seen with an impedance of 2ohms. It's all vintage except the amp.
Good luck with what you decide but don't dismiss the connoisseur BD1 even though it is cheap. Expensive doesn't always mean better.
John.

[mally1956]

I totally agree John ,at the mo I'm running a very basic set up for vinyl ,but its a case of now considering my options ,id forgotten how much nicer vinyl sounds compared to cd especially played with the assistance of valve amplification .

[audiomagpie]

The Sara's use the isobaric (or "Linn speak" isobarik) principle which uses two bass wired units in parallel, one back inside the cabinet, imagine a pipe sealed by a speaker at each end, both facing and pumping the same way. There's quite a bit about the principle on the 'net if you google it. This means that the impedance can drop quite low and only an amp with a good current reserve in its output stage could drive them consistently well without running out of steam. I used to have a pair in the 80's and an A&R Cambridge (before name change to Arcam) A60 drove them well without any problem. A friend still has them in his attic, I must try to get them back! I still have the amp.
Also, an early 80's Nytech amp would make some nice noises with them. The NAD 3020 also had a good reputation for driving low impedance loads.
As for a turntable, Linn and Thorens have already been mentioned but what about the marvellous simplicity of a Rega 2 or 3? This would make a nice period 80's system from the golden age of analogue audio!

[mhennessy]

The isobaric principle is no reason for being hard to drive. They could have used a pair of 16 ohm drivers in parallel or a pair of 4 ohm units in series. But having a lower than normal impedance is everything to do with increasing the measured sensitivity, which is measured at 2.83V RMS.

[Marconi_MPT4]

Hi mally56,

It is difficult to give a succinct answer to the question of an ultimate vintage vinyl setup based on my preferences and experience. There are many good comments and ideas in the foregoing posts.

My vinyl system is mainly second hand and dates from the 1970's. More importantly it was cheap! Not surprisingly the turntable is a Thorens TD125 MK1 with SME 3009 detachable and Shure M95ED cartridge all housed in the SME2000 series plinth providing exceptional isolation from vibration. Amplifier is a homebrew MosFET design coupled into a pair of Mission 770 speakers. In terms of similarities, the MosFET output characteristic is very similar to a tetrode valve. HiFi purists hate them, but I personally like the sound.

There was a time when this type of gear was just too large to fit into modern homess and was just unceremoniously dumped in favour of smaller compact equipment. Today it is rather different. Certain brands now have a very high price tag but it is possible to buy a decent vintage Technics or Denon direct drive turntable for not much outlay. Look also for lesser known arms such as the Mission 774. I saw one going for £15 recently! These perform well and also operate quite comfortably with a Denon DL103.

Although Mission 770 speakers present an amplifier load of approximately 2ohms at 30Hz, this is trivial when compared with Linn Isobarics! Most mainstream amplifiers had a very difficult time driving Linn's because of the complex load presented. Many amps would hit current limit foldback early on resulting in harsh sound, or if really pushed, would simply shut down. The only solution was to drive Linn speakers with a Linn Klout.

However, there is such a wide range of quality gear available and it will take time to assemble a system. I wish you luck in your quest.
Cheers
Rich

[joebog1]

Without stepping on anybodies feet!

One thing to avoid with 70's/80's Japanese amps are the real "monster" amps
They are chock-o-block full of small electrolytic caps. .47 uF, .68uF, 1uF, 2.2uF, etc etc. Thse last a few years at best and will need replacing. They cost a few cents each, there will be a LARGE BAG of them in most cases. cost of parts?? MAYBE $10 The labour to remove some if not all circuit boards, and replace the caps can take hours, and in some cases days to accomplish.

The second thing to avoid is "wirewrapped" connections to the PCB's, which was also very common. These joins go high impedance when the wire and posts tarnish, and in some high current positions, anodise themselves that the finest boilermaker will have difficulty rejoining the wires to the connections.

IF you are even semi technical and can solder, unscrew, and replace large numbers of wires and screws, it may be a viable solution.
If you take it to "someone" to do for you, be prepared to pays LOTS of money.
Even at mates rates!.

Best regards
Joe

[Courtney Louise]

For a really nice British turntable you could do a LOT worse than a Mitchel Focus One.

I use one daily with a Linn Basik Plus arm and an Audio Technica AT120 Cart and it sounds superb.

The rest of my system is recent however.

Nad Preamp
Roksan Power Amp
Mission Speakers.

However....

For my bedroom setup :

Chinese Valve Amp (Home built with British/American/German valves and caps and still sounding excellent on Chinese Chassis and Transformers)
Chinese Valve PreAmp (Same as Above)
Cambridge Audio A640 Used as an extra preamp for a tape loop.
Philips CD104 CD Player
Sony MD920 Minidisc
Celestion Ditton Speakers
Teac X3r Reel to Reel

Both sound excellent in different ways. I would love to put a turntable on the valve setup but don't have room or a mm/mc preamp for it.

The other thing I just noticed, listing this, is that I can tell you exactly the model numbers I have for my vintageesque setup in my bedroom but for the one I play the vinyl on its just a shelf of boxes and I have no idea the models as I just press the button and there is sound... I guess it shows which one I love more... I really should move the Mitchel to the Valve setup...

Courtney

[barretter]

For "Mitchel", read "Michell"

[Beobloke]

Originally Posted by mally1956

My main priority is British manufactured equipment. Old Linn Basik arms were manufactured in the UK!

I think you'll find they weren't....

[Top Cap]

My system is a Lenco GL75 with a mission arm. Cart is a Shure V15 mk.3 and the phono amp a copy of the WAD phono 1, hard wired with short paths and fitted with TJ Full music 12AX7's. Amp is a Yaqin 100b with JJ KT88's, TJ Full music 6SN7's and Svetlana winged C 12AX7's. Speakers are Tannoy dual concentric 615's. Very very happy with the reproduction I get.

Back to reality... .Connoisseur BD1, any SME arm, Mullard 3-3 amplifier and Rogers LS3's. Add a Goldring cartridge and RIAA preamp (http://www.vintageradio.me.uk/amplif...mp/preamp1.gif) and all is go!

[Radio Wrangler]

The focus is a very nice turntable, but if you want to scare the neighbours into thinking you've turned dangerous, you need the earlier 'Hydraulic Reference', a bowler hat and braces.

David

[mole42uk]

The Connoisseur BD1 is a real gem. Mine's 40 years old and still perfect.

Speakers, I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Keesonic. The KRF is superb for anything from the Huddersfield Choral Society to Keith Richards (which I'm listening to now). Probably, like me, you don't want anyone else to know how good they are. Mind you, that opinion's from someone who knew LS3/5A as a BBC monitor for OB vans and doesn't rate them for domestic HiFi. I have a pair of Keesonic Kubs (the ones I bought in 1977) as my computer speakers.

[Radio Wrangler]

Of course, a lot of people back in the day built their own speakers, so maybe Kefkit3 (DIY Kef Concerto) or the Wharfedale unit-5 (Dovedale kit) qualify as classics along with Bailey's Wireless World speaker.

David

[ianj]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

There are two sorts of advice about selecting audio gear.

I agree with all of the above

[Herald1360]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

The focus is a very nice turntable, but if you want to scare the neighbours into thinking you've turned dangerous, you need the earlier 'Hydraulic Reference', a bowler hat and braces

Won't that also need to be powered by citric acid batteries with standby clockwork?

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by joebog1

Without stepping on anybodies feet!

One thing to avoid with 70's/80's Japanese amps are the real "monster" amps
They are chock-o-block full of small electrolytic caps. .47 uF, .68uF, 1uF, 2.2uF, etc etc. Thse last a few years at best and will need replacing. They cost a few cents each, there will be a LARGE BAG of them in most cases. cost of parts?? MAYBE $10 The labour to remove some if not all circuit boards, and replace the caps can take hours, and in some cases days to accomplish.

True - but the billable time-cost to replace a capacitor is the same whether it's in a vintage valve amp or a 1970s Japanese monster. And unless you're going off into wacky audiophool-space the cost of the capacitors is noise-level [pun very much intended] compared with the cost of technician-time.

I've done quite a few Japanese Monsters over the years; you can buy them cheap (£20-£40 or so) and spend maybe £100 [parts and an afternoon of soldering] to replace the time-expired capacitors. Replace some of the carbon resistors in the front-end with metal-film types too if you want to cut down on background noise.

You then have a really-fit amp that can reliably be worked hard to deliver the likes of Deep Purple's "Child in Time" at the sort of truly gorgeous volume-levels that cause my nearest neighbours [half a mile away across the valley] to wonder what I'm up to!

Even my dog approves of the result [he likes to stick his head into the speakers when I turn things up].

[stevehertz]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

You then have a really-fit amp that can reliably be worked hard to deliver the likes of Deep Purple's "Child in Time" at the sort of truly gorgeous volume-levels that cause my nearest neighbours [half a mile away across the valley] to wonder what I'm up to!

Now you're talking...