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Old 30th Sep 2011, 6:18 pm   #1
Geoff 555
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Default Radio identity please.

Hi everyone I am hoping that someone may be able to give me some idea as to what this is. The only marking is 'AC2283.' It is a suitcase job and being kind is a basket case. Speaker is a ULTRA AIR-CHROME SPEAKER ( This is how it is printed.) with patents in USA and UK. It has 5 B4/5 sockets ,a tuning condenser, volume control, and a host of wires going no where.
I have a feeling questions will follow but first things first.

Thank you.
Geoff.
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Old 30th Sep 2011, 7:24 pm   #2
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Default Re: Radio identity please.

Has a feel of Burndept or Aeolian about it. The fretwork is distinctive with a sort of classical Greek architectural motif. No real idea, though.
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Old 30th Sep 2011, 7:34 pm   #3
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Default Re: Radio identity please.

A few similarities to the Selector mains set I am working on.
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Old 30th Sep 2011, 9:08 pm   #4
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Default Re: Radio identity please.

The fretwork is identical to fig 900 in Radio Radio which is an Ultra Air Chrome speaker. As ULTRA Elecrical Ltd were making portable Radios from 1925 and the Air Chrome speaker from around 1928 maybe the Radio is an ULTRA. that would date it around 1930.
Nice Radio
Hope you are succesful in putting it back together.
Enjoy
Mike T
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Old 1st Oct 2011, 11:27 am   #5
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Default Mystery radio. part 2.

Hello all part 1 was is trying to identify a radio, part 2 is :-

Hello their I have a 'radio' which is no more than a case and a few bits, most of it is missing having been robbed of anything useful. Please see radio identifacation AC 2283. I think the possibly the only course of action is to make a radio that would be of the correct period 1930 ish.

What I have:- A cabinet which requires rebuilding. 5 B4/5 valve holders, 5 assorted valves - PM1HF, PM1LF ,PM1 and 2 which have no markings at all. A speaker with open coil, a tuning condenser, frame aerial in the lid, a wave change switch and a couple of others (broken).

Something as simple as possible, I have never wound any coils but would have a go. The valve CD has 77 circuits and something like circuit 47 may be suitable - thoughts, ideas, suggestions please.

On winding coils, then it says about winding a coil on a Quoit would someone kindly tell me what that is? Also regards the wire is the gauge important IE: wind coil with (say) 30 gauge and also coil with (say) 26 gauge why not simply 26 gauge, is it size and cost to the manufacturer?

Sorry for the long post, so many questions and so little actual experience. Many thanks for anything you may be able to say.

Cheers,
Geoff.

PS. Some circuits use a 'differential reaction condenser', a short explanation of what this is please. When building this, are components that are easy to find? That would be a bonus, of course.
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Old 1st Oct 2011, 6:17 pm   #6
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Default Re: Radio identity please.

Hello,

Assuming the set has five triodes and not a screen-grid valve, then it would normally have a tuned frame aerial, followed by two untuned high frequency stages (high frequency chokes in the anodes and resistance-capacity coupling) so you don't need any other coils. (Just two HF chokes that you could wind yourself)
The high frequency stages would be resistance capacity coupled to a detector stage with reaction.
The detector would be transformer coupled to a low frequency amplifier stage which in turn would be transformer coupled to the output stage.

You could dispense with one or both of the high frequency stages or even dispense with the LF stage as well to simplify matters.

I have found a typical circuit in a book, which I will scan for you but I don't have my scanner with me at present.

A differential reaction condenser has two sets of fixed vanes and one set of moving vanes that move out of one set of fixed vanes into the other. You can usually adapt the circuit to use a normal condenser if you can't get one. Many circuits including the one I have use a normal reaction condenser.

Yours, Richard

Last edited by Mr Moose; 1st Oct 2011 at 6:40 pm.
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Old 1st Oct 2011, 6:24 pm   #7
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Default Re: Radio identity please.

Hi Geoff

I have a few answers for you.

A differential capacitor has two stators and one rotor and is usually arranged so that as the capitance in one stator increases the capaitance in the other reduces by the same amount so that the overall capacitance is the same.

A normal capacitor with 2 Stators such as used in a superhet receiver both stators increase and reduce in capacitance together, Although the capacitors may not necessarily be the same value to aid tracking.


Coil Quoits are a type of former an example of which can be seen here

Wire sizes can affect overall inductance particularly in a solonoid wound coil because thicker wire makes the length of the coil longer unless the turns were spaced anyway.
You will find virtually everthing effects inductance but in most instances in a home built set it is of little consequence unless its out by a large amount.

Enjoy
Mike T
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Old 1st Oct 2011, 7:18 pm   #8
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Default Re: Radio identity please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobaltblue View Post
The fretwork is identical to fig 900 in Radio Radio which is an Ultra Air Chrome speaker.
That would tie in neatly with the "AC****" type number.
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Old 1st Oct 2011, 8:44 pm   #9
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Default Re: Radio identity please.

Hello, gentlemen I thank you, a circuit would be great.Coil winding details and any other info would be very helpful.
I await with bated breath, this is exciting having never attempted anything like this before.
Thanks again.
Cheers.
Geoff.
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Old 1st Oct 2011, 9:03 pm   #10
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Default Re: Radio identity please.

Hi Geoff

Be careful you don't end up looking like this

It could happen you know

Enjoy

Mike T
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Old 1st Oct 2011, 9:06 pm   #11
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Default Re: Radio identity please.

Have a look at this thread:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...riode+portable

In post #7 there is a typical circuit for a 5 triode portable which may be useful.

Regards, Mick.
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Old 2nd Oct 2011, 11:41 am   #12
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Default Re: Radio identity please.

Hello, Mick and Richard and Mike T and every body. If you would kindly scan the circuit when chance and scanner coincide that would be much appreciated, thank you.
The circuit in the thread looks as if it's probably close to what it once was. Gathering wood glue, clamps etc.
Cheers.
Geoff.
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Old 3rd Oct 2011, 2:31 pm   #13
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Default Re: Radio identity please.

Hi Geoff, did you examine the case to see if the frame winding was present?
If that is fitted the other bits will be quite easy to come by.
The coils for this type of set are quit easy to wind and are easily checked if you have a sig gen and voltmeter or scope.

Ed
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Old 3rd Oct 2011, 9:34 pm   #14
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Default Re: Radio identity please.

Hello Ed, how you doing? It does have a frame winding (aerial) in the lid, in fact more than 1, I havnt had a poke about too much as it's a bit fragile and the frame needs glueing back together.I do have a signal genny, a very old AVO but not entirely accurate and a voltmeter.
Thank you .
Cheers.
Geoff.
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Old 4th Oct 2011, 7:00 pm   #15
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Default Re: Radio identity please.

Hi Geoff, the frame aerial wil probably have 2 windings (MW/LW) and may also have a tapon one of them, see if you can identify the respective windings.
If you fit a tuning cap across the frame winding and also a high impedance voltmeter(scope may be better), then loop the lead from the sig gen through the frame aerial a couple of times.
Now set the sig gen to say 1MHz and highest output and try the tuning cap to see what response you get from the meter on the frame aerial, it will be well under 1volt but will demonstrate the tunng is working. (meter accuracy is not important, your are looking for peaks)
That will sort out the front end and you can go on from there.

Ed
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Old 6th Oct 2011, 1:15 am   #16
Mr Moose
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Default Re: Radio identity please.

Hello,

As promised here are the circuits for typical suitcase portables.
The first two pictures are from "50 Tested Wireless Circuits" and illustrate the most common form of circuit.
The last two are from "Wireless World" from 1928.
The third picture shows two circuits the first is similar to the one from first design but uses resistance-capacity coupling for the last stage. You might want to use resistance-capacity coupling for your final stages if you don't have any LF transformers. The second shows a circuit with untuned HF transformer coupling for the first two stages although this is complex and not commonly used.
The final picture shows the percentages of different circuit features of the portable sets for 1928.

Yours, Richard
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Old 6th Oct 2011, 10:47 am   #17
Geoff 555
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Default Re: Radio identity please.

Hello Richard thank you so much, I was about to sort out a list of things that I would probably want but will wait until I have had a good read.
The 'Ultra' speaker I thought would be ok but it seems that even it has been got at. I assume that it would have been a moving iron job but the coil etc. has been removed by breaking it off the mounting and another very small unit hung on by one screw
At least I have 5 ,as yet, unbroken valve holders and a collection of valves which I have a feeling are just put in for show.
Hi ed the frame coils I have yet to try having been stopped by the speaker which I am going to try to repair. There are 4 coils 10 turns, 20 turns, 20 turns and 10 turns and a wave change switch with 14 pairs of contacts and a rats nest of wires, ranges marked 'Long' and 'Short'. A 3 scotch job just looking at it
Oh and a further coil which is separate and about 10" square and wound round the speaker frame and connected to --------- nothing.
Cheers all.
Geoff.
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Old 6th Oct 2011, 7:16 pm   #18
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Default Re: Radio identity please.

Hi Geoff, the multi tapping of the main coil my have been to allow series/parallel switching and tuning either without a variable cap or the use of a small one. The additional single coil may have been a reaction winding. Is it movaeableat all with respect to the main frame?

Ed
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Old 7th Oct 2011, 12:44 pm   #19
Geoff 555
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Default Re: Radio identity please.

Hi ed and everyone, the frame coils are fixed and not moveable, I have decided on a design and have put a wanted ad in for chokes and LF transformers. A couple of questions if I may, 2 variable tuning condensers are specified and are .0003 and .0005, now I have the original one from the wreck and a spare one, there are no values marked what so ever and I would guess that they are many times too big, so is it possible to measure them and how please, I have asked for chokes but if they should prove difficult to get would a coil wound on a resistor be OK? Also the transformers is there an alternative ? Modified sound or mains Tx? Just scrambling around as I dont know just how difficult these things are to get.
Thank you.
Cheers.
Geoff.
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Old 7th Oct 2011, 6:16 pm   #20
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Default Re: Radio identity please.

.0003 and .0005 are 300pF and 500pF respectively- pretty standard values for variable condensers. However big yours are, I'd be surprised if they were any more than 500pF.

Measurement- easy if you have a bridge or a capacitance meter not so otherwise. You could estimate the total plate area of the movable (not forgetting both sides of the inner ones) vanes and the air gap between fixed and movable to estimate the value from the geometry. Google will find you the right formula and constants.

To be honest, though, pretty much any variable C will work, at worst the wavelength coverage may be a bit restricted.
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