405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. - Page 5 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

vidjoman · 21st Feb 2014, 11:39 am

Don't have a photo of our 1st 405 aerial for BBC. Installed by the TV supplier as a temporary get us going device it had to last for about 6 weeks until they could get a proper aerial. It was made of coax cable with a nail holding the top to the upstairs window frame and a nail at the bottom to the downstairs frame. The connection in the middle was just twisted together and covered in a reel of black tape. Worked just as well as the proper H aerial they fitted later.

Hybrid tellies · 21st Feb 2014, 1:51 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by nigelr2000

Visiting my Mum in Wiltshire and saw this on top of the local Indian. Is it a TV array or something newer. ??

If this was in Melksham the UHF aerial is pointing to Mendip, the big band 1 aerial is for BBC1 from Wenvoe on ch5 and the band 3 aerials are for HTV from the Bath relay on ch8.

Heatercathodeshort · 17th Mar 2014, 9:20 pm

Caught this box 10 channel 9 aerial, bowing in retirement in Upper Tooting Road on Friday. This local area of South West London is very poor for Crystal Palace reception. It is very low ground that rises towards the transmitter. I remember UHF reception was terrible with grain and ghosts but is only five miles from CP. John.

Heatercathodeshort · 21st Apr 2014, 4:56 pm

Last week I attended a CPC driving course at Bookham in Surrey. This is the most delightful unspoilt village that one could wish for. Walking along the High Street, other than the modern cars, is much as it would have been in 1956. The bakers opens at 4.30am every morning and does a roaring trade. Definitely the best bread pudding I have ever tasted.
I thought you might like to see this pair of VHF aerials lined up with Crystal Palace channels 1 & 9 ITA Beulah Hill. It's rare you see a pair! I have uploaded a few shots so that you can get a better idea of the location. Regards, John.

AidanLunn · 21st Apr 2014, 5:27 pm

Whilst going through East London, Lewes and many Sussex coastal towns, I do see a lot of 405 aerials.

Also saw a couple here in Sheffield which I've been meaning to put up some time

KeithsTV · 22nd Apr 2014, 2:40 pm

Here's a fine pair of Band 3 aerials in Cottingley near Bradford. I'm assuming they are pointing towards Emley Moor on the other side of the hill. They look in remarkable condition considering they must be at least 30 years old

Keith

Heatercathodeshort · 22nd Apr 2014, 6:53 pm

A 'Box 18' Very rare to find one of these fringe Band 3 aerials today. J.

SteveCG · 23rd Apr 2014, 3:41 pm

Re post No. 86: That a nice looking Belling & Lee Aerial array! I saw one in Ledbury (Herefordshire) a decade ago - the first and only one I've seen in the flesh. ('twas pointing to St Hillary, so channel B10).

Focus Diode · 23rd Apr 2014, 6:53 pm

Excellent photos John and Keith. Perhaps we should re-name this thread "......2013 onwards"?

Cheers,
Brian

G6Tanuki · 23rd Apr 2014, 7:04 pm

This reminds me - I must take some photos of a couple of local small Band-III antennas before they finally collapse. Bill Wright's 'ancient aerials' website already has several of my submissions.

Focus Diode · 23rd Apr 2014, 7:31 pm

Excellent website. I noticed this which looks to be the same set up I took a photo of last year (photo 3 in Post#1).

http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/aerialp...ient/035.shtml

I note all BI elements were present!
Cheers,
Brian

G6Tanuki · 23rd Apr 2014, 7:49 pm

Alas I have to report that the array shown here:

http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/aerialp...ient/077.shtml

a mile or so east of Newbury on the A4, succumbed to the winds this winter and is no more.

Valve'n'vinyl · 25th Apr 2014, 5:10 pm

Here are some photo's of a 405 VHF antenna on a house where J.Arthur Rank was born and lived here in Hull.I took them today for everyone to see . Sadly, the house is now derelict and has been for the last 5-8 years. It was converted into bedsits and flats in the 1960's but got closed by the council because of the druggies and idiots that lived and frequented there some years ago.
I was listening to BBC Radio Humberside a few months back and the DJ brought the subject up as a daily topic. The DJ (Andy Comfort I think!?!) was very passionate about preserving the building and asked for people to ring in with ideas . Someone mentioned what I was thinking and that was to turn it into a museum . How nice it would be if they had a room playing Rank organisation films and old Rank T.V's and Radios on display. It is near a good area and it saddens me to see it fall into this decrepid state. I drove past 2 months or so ago to find the front door open with a bald headed reporter stood outside , microphone in hand and a camera man with him.That night I looked at all the editions of local news and nothing was mentioned. There is also another antenna that has fallen and hanging on the chimney stack , it looks like a Band 3 job , sadly the camera has not picked it up. Anyway, here are the pics

colly0410 · 25th Apr 2014, 6:42 pm

I wonder why the UK never used the VHF bands for 625, I know they were chock-o-block with 405 transmissions until the 80's but after that they could have been used. Mind you perhaps not band one because of sporadic E. Also most UK 625 lines TV's didn't have VHF tuners so would have needed a VHF > UHF converter box.

The old VHF aerials could have had a second bite of the cherry..

SteveCG · 26th Apr 2014, 11:20 am

Re post no. 94:

I think politics entered into it - so not a topic for this forum !

julie_m · 27th Apr 2014, 5:31 am

As I understand it, the idea was to make a complete break with the old system when moving to the new, incompatible system. All 625-line transmissions on UHF, and all 405-line on VHF.

vidjoman · 27th Apr 2014, 8:29 am

The aerials were also smaller and more directional so higher gain and less ghosting. It also paved the way for colour transmissions that were not possible in the limited bandwidth available on VHF.

Nuvistor · 27th Apr 2014, 3:38 pm

Ref post 94.

An interesting article in this link. It seems that 6 channels of 8Mc/s bandwidth were envisaged to cover the country, 4 on UHF and 2 on VHF. This paper dated June 1962, section 22 onwards.
http://filestore.nationalarchives.go...0-c-62-102.pdf

Gulliver · 27th Apr 2014, 9:09 pm

My mum's house in Letchworth has an old "H" VHF aerial on the roof. As far as I know it's either not connected to anything, or is possibly connected to a coax socket at one end of the living room. We tried that socket with a UHF television in 1979 when we moved in and it was pretty useless for that. We got reasonable FM reception from that socket so we assume it is connected to *something*.

I'll try to get a decent pic of the "H" next time I am over there.

colly0410 · 27th Apr 2014, 9:20 pm

Thanks for the link Nuvistor, interesting how it was secret.

I suppose until recently the UK was the the only country in the world with no VHF TV, unless someone knows different..

21st Feb 2014, 11:39 am	#81
vidjoman Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: East Sussex, UK. Posts: 3,213	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 Don't have a photo of our 1st 405 aerial for BBC. Installed by the TV supplier as a temporary get us going device it had to last for about 6 weeks until they could get a proper aerial. It was made of coax cable with a nail holding the top to the upstairs window frame and a nail at the bottom to the downstairs frame. The connection in the middle was just twisted together and covered in a reel of black tape. Worked just as well as the proper H aerial they fitted later.

17th Mar 2014, 9:20 pm	#83
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,127	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 Caught this box 10 channel 9 aerial, bowing in retirement in Upper Tooting Road on Friday. This local area of South West London is very poor for Crystal Palace reception. It is very low ground that rises towards the transmitter. I remember UHF reception was terrible with grain and ghosts but is only five miles from CP. John. Attached Thumbnails

21st Apr 2014, 4:56 pm	#84
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,127	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 Last week I attended a CPC driving course at Bookham in Surrey. This is the most delightful unspoilt village that one could wish for. Walking along the High Street, other than the modern cars, is much as it would have been in 1956. The bakers opens at 4.30am every morning and does a roaring trade. Definitely the best bread pudding I have ever tasted. I thought you might like to see this pair of VHF aerials lined up with Crystal Palace channels 1 & 9 ITA Beulah Hill. It's rare you see a pair! I have uploaded a few shots so that you can get a better idea of the location. Regards, John. Attached Thumbnails

21st Apr 2014, 5:27 pm	#85
AidanLunn Heptode Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Killamarsh, Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 746	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 Whilst going through East London, Lewes and many Sussex coastal towns, I do see a lot of 405 aerials. Also saw a couple here in Sheffield which I've been meaning to put up some time

22nd Apr 2014, 2:40 pm	#86
KeithsTV Nonode Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South Bradford, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 2,566	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 Here's a fine pair of Band 3 aerials in Cottingley near Bradford. I'm assuming they are pointing towards Emley Moor on the other side of the hill. They look in remarkable condition considering they must be at least 30 years old Keith Attached Thumbnails

22nd Apr 2014, 6:53 pm	#87
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,127	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 A 'Box 18' Very rare to find one of these fringe Band 3 aerials today. J.

23rd Apr 2014, 3:41 pm	#88
SteveCG Nonode Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 2,488	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 Re post No. 86: That a nice looking Belling & Lee Aerial array! I saw one in Ledbury (Herefordshire) a decade ago - the first and only one I've seen in the flesh. ('twas pointing to St Hillary, so channel B10).

23rd Apr 2014, 6:53 pm	#89
Focus Diode Octode Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Borough of Gateshead, UK. Posts: 1,420	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 Excellent photos John and Keith. Perhaps we should re-name this thread "......2013 onwards"? Cheers, Brian

23rd Apr 2014, 7:04 pm	#90
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 13,465	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 This reminds me - I must take some photos of a couple of local small Band-III antennas before they finally collapse. Bill Wright's 'ancient aerials' website already has several of my submissions.

23rd Apr 2014, 7:31 pm	#91
Focus Diode Octode Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Borough of Gateshead, UK. Posts: 1,420	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 Excellent website. I noticed this which looks to be the same set up I took a photo of last year (photo 3 in Post#1). http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/aerialp...ient/035.shtml I note all BI elements were present! Cheers, Brian

23rd Apr 2014, 7:49 pm	#92
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 13,465	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 Alas I have to report that the array shown here: http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/aerialp...ient/077.shtml a mile or so east of Newbury on the A4, succumbed to the winds this winter and is no more.

25th Apr 2014, 5:10 pm	#93
Valve'n'vinyl Pentode Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Scarborough , North Riding of Yorkshire Posts: 202	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 Here are some photo's of a 405 VHF antenna on a house where J.Arthur Rank was born and lived here in Hull.I took them today for everyone to see . Sadly, the house is now derelict and has been for the last 5-8 years. It was converted into bedsits and flats in the 1960's but got closed by the council because of the druggies and idiots that lived and frequented there some years ago. I was listening to BBC Radio Humberside a few months back and the DJ brought the subject up as a daily topic. The DJ (Andy Comfort I think!?!) was very passionate about preserving the building and asked for people to ring in with ideas . Someone mentioned what I was thinking and that was to turn it into a museum . How nice it would be if they had a room playing Rank organisation films and old Rank T.V's and Radios on display. It is near a good area and it saddens me to see it fall into this decrepid state. I drove past 2 months or so ago to find the front door open with a bald headed reporter stood outside , microphone in hand and a camera man with him.That night I looked at all the editions of local news and nothing was mentioned. There is also another antenna that has fallen and hanging on the chimney stack , it looks like a Band 3 job , sadly the camera has not picked it up. Anyway, here are the pics Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Valve'n'vinyl; 25th Apr 2014 at 5:15 pm.

25th Apr 2014, 6:42 pm	#94
colly0410 Pentode Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hucknall, Nottinghamshire, UK. Posts: 220	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 I wonder why the UK never used the VHF bands for 625, I know they were chock-o-block with 405 transmissions until the 80's but after that they could have been used. Mind you perhaps not band one because of sporadic E. Also most UK 625 lines TV's didn't have VHF tuners so would have needed a VHF > UHF converter box. The old VHF aerials could have had a second bite of the cherry..

26th Apr 2014, 11:20 am	#95
SteveCG Nonode Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 2,488	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 Re post no. 94: I think politics entered into it - so not a topic for this forum !

27th Apr 2014, 5:31 am	#96
julie_m Dekatron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Derby, UK. Posts: 7,735	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 As I understand it, the idea was to make a complete break with the old system when moving to the new, incompatible system. All 625-line transmissions on UHF, and all 405-line on VHF. __________________ If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.

27th Apr 2014, 8:29 am	#97
vidjoman Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: East Sussex, UK. Posts: 3,213	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 The aerials were also smaller and more directional so higher gain and less ghosting. It also paved the way for colour transmissions that were not possible in the limited bandwidth available on VHF.

27th Apr 2014, 3:38 pm	#98
Nuvistor Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 9,379	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 Ref post 94. An interesting article in this link. It seems that 6 channels of 8Mc/s bandwidth were envisaged to cover the country, 4 on UHF and 2 on VHF. This paper dated June 1962, section 22 onwards. http://filestore.nationalarchives.go...0-c-62-102.pdf

27th Apr 2014, 9:09 pm	#99
Gulliver Hexode Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Luton, Bedfordshire, UK. Posts: 463	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 My mum's house in Letchworth has an old "H" VHF aerial on the roof. As far as I know it's either not connected to anything, or is possibly connected to a coax socket at one end of the living room. We tried that socket with a UHF television in 1979 when we moved in and it was pretty useless for that. We got reasonable FM reception from that socket so we assume it is connected to something. I'll try to get a decent pic of the "H" next time I am over there.

27th Apr 2014, 9:20 pm	#100
colly0410 Pentode Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hucknall, Nottinghamshire, UK. Posts: 220	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013 Thanks for the link Nuvistor, interesting how it was secret. I suppose until recently the UK was the the only country in the world with no VHF TV, unless someone knows different..