Hacker Speaker Survey - Page 3 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

mhennessy · 8th Nov 2010, 10:19 pm

Thanks Sam

The "A" in the model number essentially signifies bass and treble controls. Earlier non-A models had just a single tone control - the amplifier was different as well, but you get the idea... Yes, I would expect an Elac here - only the very first non-A models had a Goodmans...

Enjoy

Jonster · 9th Nov 2010, 12:52 am

I've just picked up a black RP25A Sovereign II s/n 56626 and it is fitted with a silver Celestion 15 ohm speaker with no bolts.

mhennessy · 9th Nov 2010, 1:10 am

Thanks Johnster - that's the speaker I'd expect to find in there, and I've added your set to the database on the Hacker Radio Yahoo group

Mark

rovereab · 26th Feb 2011, 7:21 pm

My black RP25 Sovereign II, s/n 14824, has a grey painted Goodmans 15 ohm speaker with 3 bolts.

Eamonn

mhennessy · 2nd Mar 2011, 7:28 pm

Hi Eamonn,

Thanks for that - it fits in with expectations, which is always nice

. And your set was added to the Hacker group database some time back as well. I presume that's it in your avatar?

Perhaps it's time to revise the conclusions:

5" by 8" Loudspeakers:

The Goodmans loudspeaker was the "general purpose" model that was used in many of the larger sets. It is available in two versions: the earlier ones had 3 bolts visible on the rear of the magnet, which was unpainted. These were 30 ohms in the earlier sets (RP10, 18, 30/31/32). This speaker was also seen in early RP25/35/36 sets, but in 15 ohm guise. Later ones, also 15 ohms and also seen in the RP25/35/36 (and by now the RP37), have no bolts and the magnet is painted the same colour as the chassis. The change happened at around the time Hacker switched from germanium to silicon in the AM sections of the set (the handle style also changed around this time).

Later in Sovereign II and VHF Herald production, the Goodmans loudspeaker was replaced by a Celestion speaker (AM-only sets retained the Goodmans). This new speaker has a silver painted chassis and magnet, and "Celestion" is pressed into the terminal board. Roughly, this change happened just before the change from RP25 to RP25A.

Later versions of the Celestion had a black chassis (retaining the silver magnet). These are seen in later RP25B production (no-one has spotted one in a late VHF Herald yet - it's possible that VHF Herald production stopped before the Sovereign - certainly there was never an RP37B).

Note that the Celestion doesn't fit in an AM Herald (RP35) because the switchboard interferes with the slightly larger chassis.

An alternative loudspeaker - an Elac with a large ceramic magnet - was usually fitted to RP37A VHF Heralds instead of the Celestion. The available data suggests that the Elac was the preferred choice for the VHF Herald, with the Celestion being considered a suitable substitute. When this Elac is used, the amplifier PCB is rotated through 180 degrees. And while I haven't tried it, I suspect that this Elac won't fit in a Sovereign II because of the magnet.

There is another Elac, this time with a smaller Alnico magnet and gold-coloured frame/magnet, which was fitted to RP38A Hunters. Early RP38 Hunters used the later Goodmans, but switched to the Elac fairly early in production - but the earliest Elac examples had a grey painted chassis (the magnet was unpainted). There should be an "Elac" sticker on the side of the magnet, but these frequently fall off. These are 15 ohms.

This Elac reappears in the Sovereign IV and RPC1 sets, only it's 4 ohms now - as a result of switching from 18 to 12 volt operation.

Late Bournemouth production Sovereign (IV) and RPC1 sets had yet another loudspeaker - this time with a ceramic magnet. At this stage, I've not taken a close look at it and can't see who makes it. Although the magnet is generally hidden in most internal photographs, you can recognise it from the frame - there is more metal, and more smaller openings in the basket. I will post a photograph and more details in due course.

5" by 7" Loudspeakers:

The Sovereign III family (Black Knight, Super Sovereign, etc) used a smaller 5 by 7" speaker, which has no identifying labels or markings. Luckily, forum member "safria17" asked Hacker at the time, and they told him that it is was made by Peerless. Having recently seen an advert for Peerless loudspeakers in a magazine from the same time, I can only agree - although the advert showed a range of round speakers, the distinctive magnets confirm this.

I didn't notice until recently that the Super Sovereign uses a version of this loudspeaker with a slightly larger magnet.

4" by 6" Loudspeakers:

Many of the smaller sets used a 4" by 6" loudspeaker - the Mini-Herald, the Autocrat (both versions), the Democrat and the Harrier. The earlier sets used a unit made by Goodmans, which was 25 ohms in the Mini-Herald, and 15 ohms in the Democrat. The later Mini-Herald also used a unit made by Rola-Celestion.

The Mk1 Autocrat also used the Goodmans speaker in 25 ohm form. The same speaker was used in many Dynatron sets of the period.

The Mk2 Autocrat and Harrier used different loudspeakers - these had larger magnets and, reflecting the 9V operation, were 5 ohms. There are two different versions; one painted grey, one gold-coloured like the Elac units. At this stage I'm not sure of the manufacturer, or the significance between the different finishes - still gathering data.

Miscellaneous Loudspeakers:

The Ranger and Aviemore sets used a round loudspeaker, about 4 inches in diameter, and I've seen 3 or 4 variants. In general, earlier sets used larger magnets and sounded better. Various models have been seen, including the infamous plastic Philips model in very late production. A model from Audax with a grey painted frame was popular. Unfortunately, they seem to get worse (cheaper?) as production continued.

Later sets (the Consort RP79, Herald RP82 and Knight RP85) use a 4" by 7" model made by Audax. It's not a patch on the earlier Celestion or Goodmans units, but a welcome upgrade from the round speakers mentioned above.

I think that's pretty comprehensive, and should definitely help when buying or repairing sets. Thanks to everyone who contributed data, and please feel free to continue doing so - remember to include serial numbers and I'll be able to add them to the Hacker group database

Thanks again,

Mark

M0TAW Tony · 5th Apr 2011, 11:42 am

I have a Sovereign II srl no 14420 with 5"x8" grey Goodmans speaker with 3 round head screws on the unpainted magnet housing.
Incidentally what is the significance of the annotation under the tuning knob (on the pastic dial) Mine is inscribed 'B/25/19'?
Tony

Ian E G7OLT · 5th Apr 2011, 1:41 pm

Tony,

I think it's the factory drawing and part no.

Yours set is an RP25.

The numbers below the tuning knob on an RP25A are B/25/19A and on an RP25B are B/25/19B. Is your set blue or black?

Regards,

Ian

M0TAW Tony · 5th Apr 2011, 4:52 pm

Hi Ian
Its blue and fortunately with all silicon transistors
Tony

mhennessy · 5th Apr 2011, 5:38 pm

Hi Tony,

Many thanks for the information. According to the RP25 service manual, the silicon transistors came in around serial number 13001, so that fits. The speaker change happened slightly afterwards; I know of another set with the silicon tuner and bolted speaker - serial number 15301, so everything sounds in order.

Just out of interest, a minor detail of the scale changed sometime around here. Looking at the 3 wide slots through which you observe the pointer, the earlier sets had a white outline around them, whereas the later sets only had a white line at the top of the opening. Which does yours have? (If my description isn't clear, I could post a photo tomorrow.)

Mark

M0TAW Tony · 5th Apr 2011, 7:48 pm

Hi Mark
Mine only has the white lines above the slots (not below)
Tony

lastx33 · 4th May 2011, 11:08 am

Hi Mark

I have a Hunter RP38A with gold passivated framed, small magnet Elac speaker. It has the earlier green printed scale and punched aluminium speaker grille but with the separate hacker badge on the leatherette front panel. I would guess it dates from around 1973 as this seems to be a transitional year to the later style grille and scale? The serial number is 34756 which I added to the database but forgot to mention the other features.

Calum

mhennessy · 4th May 2011, 5:45 pm

Hi Calum,

Many thanks - that's definitely the speaker I'd expect for that set, and I reckon you're close with the estimated age. Unfortunately, we haven't collected data on the grill/scale change in the database, but I'm fairly convinced the change coincided closely with the release of the Sovereign III "family".

All the best,

Mark

M0TAW Tony · 4th May 2011, 7:09 pm

Hi Mark
Was there any significance to date of issue for those speakers with roindhead screws and those with cheesehead screws?
Tony

bones50 · 29th Jul 2011, 4:35 pm

Hunter RP38A here.

ELAC speaker gold passivated frame finish, not painted.

Phil.

Osiris69 · 6th Aug 2011, 12:22 am

I have a Herald VHF with Celestion silver speaker. dunno where the serial number is, if you tell me I will post it.
I also have a Bournemouth Aviemore with a black plastic speaker Serial B 00429. also has Hacker Battery eliminator as fitted.

mhennessy · 6th Aug 2011, 12:31 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osiris69

I have a Herald VHF with Celestion silver speaker. dunno where the serial number is, if you tell me I will post it.
I also have a Bournemouth Aviemore with a black plastic speaker Serial B 00429. also has Hacker Battery eliminator as fitted.

Hi,

The serial number should be on the chassis, underneath the tuning scale. Is it an RP37 or an RP37A, and what colour is it?

Likewise, what colour is the Aviemore?

Thanks,

Mark

Osiris69 · 6th Aug 2011, 12:55 am

The Aviemore is black, as is the Herald, im away from home at the moment, able to give info on the Aviemore as I have it with me. VHF Herald is at home, will update once home.

Osiris69 · 7th Aug 2011, 10:03 pm

(As Promised)
Serial for Herald RP37A is 29091 and is Black. Celestion silver speaker.

mhennessy · 8th Aug 2011, 1:38 pm

Thank you - both added, and much appreciated

Mark

credible58 · 5th Aug 2012, 12:07 pm

Hi,

I don't know if you are still interested but I thought I'd add my Hackers. I have two RP38A s (one is mine and the other I bought for my son). Serial numbers are 13934 and 15993. They both have the Elac speakers you mention above marked with part no 58HE/146.

Best regards,

Paul.

8th Nov 2010, 10:19 pm	#41
mhennessy Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Evesham, Worcestershire, UK. Posts: 4,194	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey Thanks Sam The "A" in the model number essentially signifies bass and treble controls. Earlier non-A models had just a single tone control - the amplifier was different as well, but you get the idea... Yes, I would expect an Elac here - only the very first non-A models had a Goodmans... Enjoy

9th Nov 2010, 12:52 am	#42
Jonster Heptode Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 671	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey I've just picked up a black RP25A Sovereign II s/n 56626 and it is fitted with a silver Celestion 15 ohm speaker with no bolts.

9th Nov 2010, 1:10 am	#43
mhennessy Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Evesham, Worcestershire, UK. Posts: 4,194	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey Thanks Johnster - that's the speaker I'd expect to find in there, and I've added your set to the database on the Hacker Radio Yahoo group Mark

26th Feb 2011, 7:21 pm	#44
rovereab Tetrode Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK. Posts: 86	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey My black RP25 Sovereign II, s/n 14824, has a grey painted Goodmans 15 ohm speaker with 3 bolts. Eamonn

2nd Mar 2011, 7:28 pm	#45
mhennessy Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Evesham, Worcestershire, UK. Posts: 4,194	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey Hi Eamonn, Thanks for that - it fits in with expectations, which is always nice . And your set was added to the Hacker group database some time back as well. I presume that's it in your avatar? Perhaps it's time to revise the conclusions: 5" by 8" Loudspeakers: The Goodmans loudspeaker was the "general purpose" model that was used in many of the larger sets. It is available in two versions: the earlier ones had 3 bolts visible on the rear of the magnet, which was unpainted. These were 30 ohms in the earlier sets (RP10, 18, 30/31/32). This speaker was also seen in early RP25/35/36 sets, but in 15 ohm guise. Later ones, also 15 ohms and also seen in the RP25/35/36 (and by now the RP37), have no bolts and the magnet is painted the same colour as the chassis. The change happened at around the time Hacker switched from germanium to silicon in the AM sections of the set (the handle style also changed around this time). Later in Sovereign II and VHF Herald production, the Goodmans loudspeaker was replaced by a Celestion speaker (AM-only sets retained the Goodmans). This new speaker has a silver painted chassis and magnet, and "Celestion" is pressed into the terminal board. Roughly, this change happened just before the change from RP25 to RP25A. Later versions of the Celestion had a black chassis (retaining the silver magnet). These are seen in later RP25B production (no-one has spotted one in a late VHF Herald yet - it's possible that VHF Herald production stopped before the Sovereign - certainly there was never an RP37B). Note that the Celestion doesn't fit in an AM Herald (RP35) because the switchboard interferes with the slightly larger chassis. An alternative loudspeaker - an Elac with a large ceramic magnet - was usually fitted to RP37A VHF Heralds instead of the Celestion. The available data suggests that the Elac was the preferred choice for the VHF Herald, with the Celestion being considered a suitable substitute. When this Elac is used, the amplifier PCB is rotated through 180 degrees. And while I haven't tried it, I suspect that this Elac won't fit in a Sovereign II because of the magnet. There is another Elac, this time with a smaller Alnico magnet and gold-coloured frame/magnet, which was fitted to RP38A Hunters. Early RP38 Hunters used the later Goodmans, but switched to the Elac fairly early in production - but the earliest Elac examples had a grey painted chassis (the magnet was unpainted). There should be an "Elac" sticker on the side of the magnet, but these frequently fall off. These are 15 ohms. This Elac reappears in the Sovereign IV and RPC1 sets, only it's 4 ohms now - as a result of switching from 18 to 12 volt operation. Late Bournemouth production Sovereign (IV) and RPC1 sets had yet another loudspeaker - this time with a ceramic magnet. At this stage, I've not taken a close look at it and can't see who makes it. Although the magnet is generally hidden in most internal photographs, you can recognise it from the frame - there is more metal, and more smaller openings in the basket. I will post a photograph and more details in due course. 5" by 7" Loudspeakers: The Sovereign III family (Black Knight, Super Sovereign, etc) used a smaller 5 by 7" speaker, which has no identifying labels or markings. Luckily, forum member "safria17" asked Hacker at the time, and they told him that it is was made by Peerless. Having recently seen an advert for Peerless loudspeakers in a magazine from the same time, I can only agree - although the advert showed a range of round speakers, the distinctive magnets confirm this. I didn't notice until recently that the Super Sovereign uses a version of this loudspeaker with a slightly larger magnet. 4" by 6" Loudspeakers: Many of the smaller sets used a 4" by 6" loudspeaker - the Mini-Herald, the Autocrat (both versions), the Democrat and the Harrier. The earlier sets used a unit made by Goodmans, which was 25 ohms in the Mini-Herald, and 15 ohms in the Democrat. The later Mini-Herald also used a unit made by Rola-Celestion. The Mk1 Autocrat also used the Goodmans speaker in 25 ohm form. The same speaker was used in many Dynatron sets of the period. The Mk2 Autocrat and Harrier used different loudspeakers - these had larger magnets and, reflecting the 9V operation, were 5 ohms. There are two different versions; one painted grey, one gold-coloured like the Elac units. At this stage I'm not sure of the manufacturer, or the significance between the different finishes - still gathering data. Miscellaneous Loudspeakers: The Ranger and Aviemore sets used a round loudspeaker, about 4 inches in diameter, and I've seen 3 or 4 variants. In general, earlier sets used larger magnets and sounded better. Various models have been seen, including the infamous plastic Philips model in very late production. A model from Audax with a grey painted frame was popular. Unfortunately, they seem to get worse (cheaper?) as production continued. Later sets (the Consort RP79, Herald RP82 and Knight RP85) use a 4" by 7" model made by Audax. It's not a patch on the earlier Celestion or Goodmans units, but a welcome upgrade from the round speakers mentioned above. I think that's pretty comprehensive, and should definitely help when buying or repairing sets. Thanks to everyone who contributed data, and please feel free to continue doing so - remember to include serial numbers and I'll be able to add them to the Hacker group database Thanks again, Mark

5th Apr 2011, 11:42 am	#46
M0TAW Tony Pentode Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Telford Posts: 104	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey I have a Sovereign II srl no 14420 with 5"x8" grey Goodmans speaker with 3 round head screws on the unpainted magnet housing. Incidentally what is the significance of the annotation under the tuning knob (on the pastic dial) Mine is inscribed 'B/25/19'? Tony Last edited by M0TAW Tony; 5th Apr 2011 at 11:44 am. Reason: additional information

5th Apr 2011, 1:41 pm	#47
Ian E G7OLT Pentode Join Date: May 2009 Location: Byfield, Northamptonshire UK. Posts: 112	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey Tony, I think it's the factory drawing and part no. Yours set is an RP25. The numbers below the tuning knob on an RP25A are B/25/19A and on an RP25B are B/25/19B. Is your set blue or black? Regards, Ian

5th Apr 2011, 4:52 pm	#48
M0TAW Tony Pentode Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Telford Posts: 104	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey Hi Ian Its blue and fortunately with all silicon transistors Tony

5th Apr 2011, 5:38 pm	#49
mhennessy Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Evesham, Worcestershire, UK. Posts: 4,194	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey Hi Tony, Many thanks for the information. According to the RP25 service manual, the silicon transistors came in around serial number 13001, so that fits. The speaker change happened slightly afterwards; I know of another set with the silicon tuner and bolted speaker - serial number 15301, so everything sounds in order. Just out of interest, a minor detail of the scale changed sometime around here. Looking at the 3 wide slots through which you observe the pointer, the earlier sets had a white outline around them, whereas the later sets only had a white line at the top of the opening. Which does yours have? (If my description isn't clear, I could post a photo tomorrow.) Mark

5th Apr 2011, 7:48 pm	#50
M0TAW Tony Pentode Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Telford Posts: 104	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey Hi Mark Mine only has the white lines above the slots (not below) Tony

4th May 2011, 11:08 am	#51
lastx33 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Kelso, Scottish Borders, UK. Posts: 40	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey Hi Mark I have a Hunter RP38A with gold passivated framed, small magnet Elac speaker. It has the earlier green printed scale and punched aluminium speaker grille but with the separate hacker badge on the leatherette front panel. I would guess it dates from around 1973 as this seems to be a transitional year to the later style grille and scale? The serial number is 34756 which I added to the database but forgot to mention the other features. Calum

4th May 2011, 5:45 pm	#52
mhennessy Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Evesham, Worcestershire, UK. Posts: 4,194	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey Hi Calum, Many thanks - that's definitely the speaker I'd expect for that set, and I reckon you're close with the estimated age. Unfortunately, we haven't collected data on the grill/scale change in the database, but I'm fairly convinced the change coincided closely with the release of the Sovereign III "family". All the best, Mark

4th May 2011, 7:09 pm	#53
M0TAW Tony Pentode Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Telford Posts: 104	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey Hi Mark Was there any significance to date of issue for those speakers with roindhead screws and those with cheesehead screws? Tony

29th Jul 2011, 4:35 pm	#54
bones50 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Manchester Posts: 8	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey Hunter RP38A here. ELAC speaker gold passivated frame finish, not painted. Phil.

6th Aug 2011, 12:22 am	#55
Osiris69 Tetrode Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Newport Pagnell, Buckinghamshire, UK. Posts: 57	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey I have a Herald VHF with Celestion silver speaker. dunno where the serial number is, if you tell me I will post it. I also have a Bournemouth Aviemore with a black plastic speaker Serial B 00429. also has Hacker Battery eliminator as fitted.

6th Aug 2011, 12:55 am	#57
Osiris69 Tetrode Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Newport Pagnell, Buckinghamshire, UK. Posts: 57	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey The Aviemore is black, as is the Herald, im away from home at the moment, able to give info on the Aviemore as I have it with me. VHF Herald is at home, will update once home.

7th Aug 2011, 10:03 pm	#58
Osiris69 Tetrode Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Newport Pagnell, Buckinghamshire, UK. Posts: 57	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey (As Promised) Serial for Herald RP37A is 29091 and is Black. Celestion silver speaker.

8th Aug 2011, 1:38 pm	#59
mhennessy Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Evesham, Worcestershire, UK. Posts: 4,194	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey Thank you - both added, and much appreciated Mark

5th Aug 2012, 12:07 pm	#60
credible58 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Dunmow, Essex, UK Posts: 31	Re: Hacker Speaker Survey Hi, I don't know if you are still interested but I thought I'd add my Hackers. I have two RP38A s (one is mine and the other I bought for my son). Serial numbers are 13934 and 15993. They both have the Elac speakers you mention above marked with part no 58HE/146. Best regards, Paul.